Is the WolfDream the same as the World of Dreams?

[udpaco13]

I think it is commonly accepted that these are one in the same, but there seem to be oddities. Perrin has never felt the "Unseen Eyes". I dont remember him ever think about them. Could this mean the unseen eyes are the wolfs?

 

Another one, Perrin never sees people dream themselves into the dream until he starts hunting nightmares. He is always in Tear, or his camp or the two rivers, and never sees anyone? I dont remember him ever see someone random pop up, then disappear.

 

The last I have off hand is things changing randomly. Things disappearing when you pick them up, or tents moving their flaps back and forth. He sees his camp all the time but doesn't mention these type of things happening. Sometimes his axe flickers or some such, but the wild randomness seems to be lacking. When the wonder girls are in Tel' they see all types of crazy things constantly.

 

Ok, now destroy my theory....

[Trakand]

I do believe that perrin's wolf dream and Tel'aran'rhiod are the same. Perrin crossed paths with egwene in the white tower while he was fighting slayer. I believe he forced balefire to his will or some such. My belief is he did not see people randomly entering TAR because he was learning about it in the wilderness. A person is not going to have a powerful dream or nightmare in the wilderness. They are much more likely to have them where they live with the highest chance being in the cities. I believe the difference in descriptions of the changing environment has to do with the fact of natural vs. man-made environments. It is logical in a natural environment the changes would be more subtle, almost unnoticeable. Whereas, Man-made environments would be more in flux. "The unseen eyes" could be the wolves. I have never thought about that.

[snooze1128]

I think the wolf dream and TAR are definitely one and the same. You're right that the author doesn't treat the wolf dream as the same as TAR (like you said, people & moving things aren't so frequent from Perrion's POV), but my guess is that the author had to do this to try and keep the reader from guessing the wolf dream = TAR.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Well they're obviously the same place. I don't think anyone ever seriously thought differently. But Dreaming the Wolf Dream and a Dreamwalker going about TAR aren't the same thing.

[rand4747]

I think the wolfdream is very much like a dreamwalker. There is almost no difference really. Perrin could possibly even learn how to go into that place witht he stars and all if tought. The only differences seem to be Egwene is a dreamer aswell, whereas Perrin obtains his seeing the future in TAR itself he sees "Windows" to the future. But thats a different talent itself from being a dreamwalker. Infact we have no idea if Elyas is a Dreamwalker, we know Noam was. It could be possible to be a wolfbrother without being a Dreamwalker.

[MasterAblar]

I think the wolfdream is very much like a dreamwalker. There is almost no difference really. Perrin could possibly even learn how to go into that place witht he stars and all if tought. The only differences seem to be Egwene is a dreamer aswell, whereas Perrin obtains his seeing the future in TAR itself he sees "Windows" to the future. But thats a different talent itself from being a dreamwalker. Infact we have no idea if Elyas is a Dreamwalker, we know Noam was. It could be possible to be a wolfbrother without being a Dreamwalker.

 

I believe Elyas told Perrin he stayed away from the Wolf Dream because it was dangerous, and advised him to do the same. That implies that he can reach the Wolf Dream.

[udpaco13]

So why has Perrin never seen the unseen eyes? Why does Perrin get fortellings through "Windows" when Egwene has actual dreams? Why has Perrin never seen Random people dream themselves in? Someone above mentioned that he is always in the wild. That is not true. He almost always starts in his camp or the two rivers, which both have lots of people. Back in Book 4 he is constantly roaming the Wolfdream checking out the whitecloaks, and all over the two rivers, but he never saw another person beside Slayer.

 

I guess it could be that Wolfs experience the World of Dreams differently, but I still think there seem to be differences. The world of dreams is the realm that connects all possible worlds or some such...so maybe the Wolves are "on another level of the tower" to explain it in Stephen King terms.

[Ashaman Kovan]

The Wolfdream and Dreamwalking, to me, IMO, are like Saidin and Saidar. Part of the same source, similar in some ways, infinitely different in others.

[Sharaman]

Moridin appears to think they're the same - he warns Graendal that Perrin is a dreamwalker. Slayer too arguably knows more about TAR than even the Forsaken.

[TristanWebb]

The windows are special to Perrin rather than the wolfdream as the wolves can't see them.

[Rufae]

Could be the reason Perrin does not see other people is the wolves. We know they guard his dreams from Ishy and the other Forsaken, so maybe they block intruders in general from invading the Wolf Dream.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Moridin appears to think they're the same - he warns Graendal that Perrin is a dreamwalker. Slayer too arguably knows more about TAR than even the Forsaken.

 

He seems to think they can access the same place. TAR. And I'd guess he's right. But Wolfdreaming wasn't even a thing in the AOL. Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

 

Edit:

The windows are special to Perrin rather than the wolfdream as the wolves can't see them.

 

Without the Wolfdream there would be no windows I'm guessing.

[TristanWebb]

Wolfkin weren't around during the AoL, but the wolfdream = TAR which is proven by Birgitte being there. Aside from the unseen eyes, there is nothing that sets the wolfdream apart from TAR and alot of stuff that shows it is the same place. Perrin rarely sees random people there because he wanders around the wilderness amost every time he is in the dream, the times he doesn't such as rescuing Faile he sees a random person even while he is focused on a specific task. TAR seems as important to the wolves as good smell and vision, so it isn't surpising that one of the gifts being a wolfkin gives is access to it.

 

The windows are a Talent Perrin has in TAR in my opinion rather than something all wolfkin have by default. There is no evidence one way or the other, but if it was given by the wolves I believe that the wolves would see them as well, but they seem to come out of nowhere unlike all the other things that being a wolfkin gives coming from what the wolves have naturally.

[Vardar]

The unseen eyes was Slayer correct? Slayer would stay away from Perrin mostly, but he was hunting those girls.

 

As to why Perrin doesn't see people dreaming themselves into TAR, how often is Perrin in a city in TAR? Only when he fights nightmares right? And when he does, he see's people? It's not like when the girls in TAR and in a city they see dozens of people at any given second, I always got the impression that it was a rare occurance, as in without the space you can see around you, you may see someone pop in and out every few minutes. Perrin, the places he was a travelled, was not apt to see anyone. How many people dream themselves into the woods?

[shortkut]

I thought the unseen eyes were the wolves because even though they are in TAR, only wolfbrothers (and slayer) can see them

[Vardar]

I thought the unseen eyes were the wolves because even though they are in TAR, only wolfbrothers (and slayer) can see them

 

No remember when they nearly catch Slayer that one time. The 3 girls because they get tired of the eyes. Then it stops after he flees.

[Durinax]

I thought the unseen eyes were the wolves because even though they are in TAR, only wolfbrothers (and slayer) can see them

 

No remember when they nearly catch Slayer that one time. The 3 girls because they get tired of the eyes. Then it stops after he flees.

the eyes are just people watching them, and they are unconciously aware of it and feel like their being watched, much like in TGH when rand feels the eyes around fal dara