What role will Padan Fain play in AMOL

[tje]

If going with the theme of balance when talking about Fain and the DO being sealed together. Wouldn't a balance be the loss of the use of the One Power for the Fourth age. I think I remember reading a quote from Jordan along the lines of the source not being an infinite supply but rather finite amount that is infinitely reusable. Maybe it takes all the One Power to seal up Fain and the Dark One. The balance would be that the DO and Fain are completely sealed up but humankind has lost the ability to channel.

[randomh3r0]

Sealing fain inside the bore, much like the forsaken were sealed inside last time, would prevent the DO from being able to touch the world ever again, as the two evils would counter each other, just like Rand's twin wounds. In effect, each evil would contain the other in an eternal stalemate.... I think Fain is likely to kick some serious ass before he gets locked up though. Probbly Shaidar Haran, and he might even be the one to get Rand since someone is gonna kill him so he can cone back and save the day... I have high hopes for Fain/Mordeth/Ordeith in this book... He has been growing stronger by leaps and bounds but hasnt really done much i expect him to seriously rock out in this book. Supposedly he is something new that never happened in the other turnings of the wheel so imo he will be the thing that tips the scales one way or the other toward breaking the cycle.

 

I agree in that I'm expecting fain to "seriously rock out" in the last book of the series. You've also brought up a point that's been frequently mentioned, and that is that Fain is essentially the Wild Card of the third age (we're in the third age, right?), as a character such has himself has never been present in the past. I think there are significant implications of this, as Fain is most certainly destined to play a major role in the sealing of the Bore. The problem I have here is this: I don't like the concept that the only way to seal the DO off from the world (without incurring a taint) is to leverage a secondary evil such as Fain. Yet we have seen a prominant theme play out through the series: there is an eternal balance between Good & Evil that maintains a universal balance. Should Fain tip the balance in such a way that it results in the DO being sealed away, then I would expect him to affect the Light (aka. the good guys) in an equally malevolent manner.

 

One more random thought: If Rand uses the True Power to reseal the DO, then neither the Saidin, nor Sadir, would become tainted, right? I'm guessing I'm forgetting and/or missing something, because this seems like way too simple of a solution and I'm sure this has been thoroughly discussed.

 

I tend to go with this line of thinking. As we look at what Fain's done, yes he's been consistently evil, however his actions have hindered both the forces of the light and the dark. I expect he'll have a major roll to play, but I think he'll have to end up taking out two parties of equal footing with the dark and the light.

 

Also, to anyone believe Rand will use the TP ever again, I'm pretty sure that's been put to rest. We see in ToM he's stopped using it, engaging more his new abilities with bending the pattern itself to his will, righting wrongs and whatnot. LTT was horrified when he used the TP, and now that they've merged I simply can't agree with anyone that he'd touch the TP again, knowing what it might cost him.

[TreeJoe]

RJ said Fain is a wildcard, and I would agree: I'm really worried about how he's to be used.

 

Becoming the new Dark One? C'mon - The Dark One is an immeasurable force across every world that exists. Fain, and Fain's power, can fight off modest distributions of that power - mortals (even given agelessness), shadowspawn, and specific instances of the taint. When Rand forced the taint through Shadar Logoth, they held each other at bay.

 

I want to see Fain do something unique, like be able to avoid the Dark One's influence at Shayol Ghul while others are incapacitated by it, but directly taking on the Dark One would be a step too far for me to absorb.

[snooze1128]

Also, to anyone believe Rand will use the TP ever again, I'm pretty sure that's been put to rest. We see in ToM he's stopped using it, engaging more his new abilities with bending the pattern itself to his will, righting wrongs and whatnot. LTT was horrified when he used the TP, and now that they've merged I simply can't agree with anyone that he'd touch the TP again, knowing what it might cost him.

 

@Random: Regarding Rand's use of the True Power in the last book, I believe one of two things will happen:

 

Option A) Like you say, Rand recognizes LTT's horror of the True Power, and thus decides not to use it. If this is the case, though, then I sure hope to get some sort of explanation, as to why he was granted the True Power in the first place, and why it's so scary to LTT. I've gotta believe the TP will play a major role in the last book. I mean, I don't think the author chose to grant Rand with the True Power because that was the only way he could figure out a legitimate means of escaping the collar.

 

 

Option B) Rand does chose to embrace the True Power, either intentionally, or on a whim (maybe he's getting his but kicked or something), but then is quick to realize exactly why LTT feared its use in the first place.

 

Either way, I really hope we see a scene in the last book where one of the main characters--maybe Moraine--sees those black specs flying across Rand's eyes and is like "whoa, you sure have changed!"

[thisguy]

fain will likely end up killing one of the chosen in shayol ghul

 

I think this is probably close to the truth. He'll end up protecting Rand because he wants to be the one to kill him. Gollum, gollum...

[Zewe]

Fain = real Dragon Reborn

[Matrim-Bloody-Cauthon]

Fain = real Dragon Reborn

I hope thats a joke :p

[Zewe]

Padan Fain anagrams poorly to Lews Therin Telamon.

[HiddenInLight]

I think he will be the one to kill moradin. As for sealing the dark one, I think it will be something similar to what LTT did except rand will touch the DO with the True power. The true power gets tainted instead of Sadin/sadir.

[Zewe]

The taint was a retaliatory strike, though, not a byproduct of touching the DO.

[Matrim-Bloody-Cauthon]

I think he will be the one to kill moradin. As for sealing the dark one, I think it will be something similar to what LTT did except rand will touch the DO with the True power. The true power gets tainted instead of Sadin/sadir.

I have heard this suggested before, and using the True Power against the DO makes no sense. As lews therin said, "IT IS HIM!".... Meaning, well, it IS him :p. the TP, as i understand it, is the DO's power, which he allows a select few to use. So even if you could somehow use the DO's own power against him, which i seriously doubt, he would simply deny Rand access to it. The True Power is the DO. Evil and destructive to the point where even the powerhungry Chosen fear its use (except Ishy but he is a self destructive nut :p)

[thisguy]

Well, what is Fain's entire purpose? He is consumed with finding the three ta'averen, especially Rand. If Rand needs to die to win, then Fain will kill him.

[thisguy]

If Ishmael or Shaidar Haran (I'm leaning towards Shaidar) have to kill Rand themselves for some specific reason, then Fain will kill Rand first destroying their purpose.

[thisguy]

I think he might kill Ishmael too, now that I think of it.

[thisguy]

Think about it, if Ishmael and Rand stand for the Dark Lord and the Creator, how do you upset the wheel and change things permanently? Kill them both.

 

He is his own force and wants to kill Rand and get his revenge on the bad guys.

[thisguy]

Last thought - Fain goes to Caemlyn and does something to Elayne. Rand goes and fights him and is mortally wounded by Fain but kills Fain in return.

 

Why?

Fain went by the name Mordeth. Modred is King Arthur's son who betrays him and mortally wounds Arthur but is killed in return. This was at the Battle of Camlann.

 

Camlann = Caemlyn

Mordeth = Modred

[snooze1128]

Last thought - Fain goes to Caemlyn and does something to Elayne. Rand goes and fights him and is mortally wounded by Fain but kills Fain in return.

 

Why?

Fain went by the name Mordeth. Modred is King Arthur's son who betrays him and mortally wounds Arthur but is killed in return. This was at the Battle of Camlann.

 

Camlann = Caemlyn

Mordeth = Modred

 

Lol, maybe.... Remember, Fain doesn't use the One Power, or any power! He just chills with his dagger and fog and kills trolloc beasts for fun. He gets places by walking, and he doesn't care! He has nothing else to do and nobody else to entertain. All signs are pointing towards Fain having a major say in the last battle, but he's not going to hop on a horse-drawn carriage and book it to Camlyn anytime soon! Fain has more important issues to see to...

[Treebeard]

I think that Moridin plays the better counterpart for Rand then him. I have speculated in a line from the prophesy of the dark "(...)and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy(...)" i know that Rand is the hotspot but consider these things : a) Fain is obviously in the Blight and heeding for Shayol Ghul, he is bent on destroying the DO yes that a crazy plan but well Fain is crazy and very powerful.

b) It dose not stand anywhere in the text that he accuelley beaks them it could mean " When Fain try to break the seals of the Dark Ones prison..." and 3 ) would it not bee a little to obvious if it was Rand ?

[Entreri]

Min's vision of Rand: "Blood stained rocks. Two dead men on the ground, surrounded by ranks and ranks of Trollocs, a pipe with smoke curling from it."

 

We know that Fain is gathering an army of zombie Trollocs and waiting for Rand in the Blight. Fain has become an incredibly formidable opponent...some type Mashadar flows from him and he controls it. A unqiue being according to RJ.

 

Mashadar regenerates...the entire White Tower using all the angreal, sa'angreal they had could not take out Shadar Logoth.

 

The only other viable other candidates that could gather such a number of Trollocs and possibly take down Jesus Rand: Ishamael. Before the end, he wants to fight Rand.

 

ToM, Fain: "Al'Thor would die by his hand"..."You didn't hunt something you knew exactly where it was going to be. You merely showed up to meet it".

 

 

Lanfear will try her sneak attack to get to Rand. Ishamael, Fain, direct confronation. All that leaves is Shadar Haran...unless he duels with Fain...Double KO?

[thisguy]

 

Lanfear will try her sneak attack to get to Rand. Ishamael, Fain, direct confronation. All that leaves is Shadar Haran...unless he duels with Fain...Double KO?

 

Good quote about not hunting something when you know where it will be. Fain may just be going North to wait for Rand. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Fain attacks (and possibly kills) major baddies. He wants Rand the most but I think he wants revenge on those who harmed him on all sides.

 

There's also this, in book two he tells Rand that "the battle never ends". Maybe, he's looking to end the battle. As someone else said RJ had said, he's a wildcard. We're looking at one battle between Rand/LTT and the Dark One. I think Fain is here to change the pattern.

[Randzor]

What if Fain is used as the prison for the dark one? If so no one would bore into it, due to the vileness on the outside.

[thisguy]

What if Fain is used as the prison for the dark one? If so no one would bore into it, due to the vileness on the outside.

 

Could be. I truly believe some inspiration for Fain came from Gollum. Thinking of the story in those terms, Rand is the ring. Rand, like the ring, must be destroyed to destroy the Dark One. For some reason, Rand cannot be destroyed and Fain, thinking only of what he wants, destroys Rand and himself at the same time and saves the day. Hahaha! Who knows? :)

 

I don't think he's going to be the unwitting hero but I could see him destroying both Rand and Ishmael thus saving the good guys and giving Ishmael what he wants, which is an end to the eternal struggle.

[Shai-tan]

Yeah RJ said Fain was unique to this age.... I guess the only way to break the cycle would be to use something which is outside the pattern, does Fain qualify for this? No idea. Should be interesting.

[TristanWebb]

There isn't any doubt that Fain = Gollum, but RJ enjoyed twisting things for his own ends. To have Fain act the same as Gollum at the end is antithetical to RJ storytelling process.

[Morden]

Why does everyone take things so literally? Pure Evil vs Pure Evil. Mashadar vs the Dark One.

 

I think Mashadar will be used to seal the bore somehow. Yes the Dark one is infinately more vast, but relatively the area of the bore is small. Mashadar would have little trouble guarding that small area and holding the Dark One at a standoff. Similar to Rands two wounds.

 

What if Rand bargained with Fain to do this? he lets Fain kill him if he will force Mashadar to fight the Dark One evermore? afterall this was what created Mashadar(the desire to fight and beat the dark one by being as evil and vile as the dark one himself)

 

So Fain kills Rand. but because he still has a touch of the Dark Ones power (the wound) and a touch of Mashadar (The other wound) he might not be totally dead. not to mention his connection with Moridin...

 

Could be that Nynaeve will be able to heal him once the Dark Ones touch and Mashadars touch are no longer present.

 

Granted I very much doubt im right on much of this, but I think as far as balance goes Mashadar and The Dark One are a match made in the dark ones prison. They would fight for eternity to become strong enough to beat the other in order to challenge the light.