A 3rd Sa' angreal?

[Neophyte]

Yep.

 

Week 23 Question: Was the Fade who visited Jaichim Carridin in the Prologue of The Dragon Reborn an early version of Shaidar Haran? Its response that it likes to keep an eye on 'all who serve me' and its apparent sense of humour are behaviour atypical of a Fade.

 

Robert Jordan Answers: I was wondering who would spot that. Shaidar Haran Version 0.5! The Dark One doesn't get it spot on the first time every time.

 

Found here.

[thisguy]

Yep.

 

Week 23 Question: Was the Fade who visited Jaichim Carridin in the Prologue of The Dragon Reborn an early version of Shaidar Haran? Its response that it likes to keep an eye on 'all who serve me' and its apparent sense of humour are behaviour atypical of a Fade.

 

Robert Jordan Answers: I was wondering who would spot that. Shaidar Haran Version 0.5! The Dark One doesn't get it spot on the first time every time.

 

Found here.

Cool. Thanks, Neophyte ;)

[Vardar]

Yea even with the prototype thing, Neo's idea is still valid. All Fades would have that gene using that theory. (It does make sense)

[Neophyte]

Yea even with the prototype thing, Neo's idea is still valid. All Fades would have that gene using that theory. (It does make sense)

 

Well, probably not all Fades. However it is likely that 1 to 3 percent would (since that is the rate in humans), so there would definitely be more than one available.

[yoniy0]

This is high speculation. Don't you guys think that someone would've noticed if Myrddraal could channel?

[Neophyte]

This is high speculation. Don't you guys think that someone would've noticed if Myrddraal could channel?

 

I'm not suggesting that the Myrddraal can channel the One Power. I'm suggesting that the existence of that gene might give the Dark One increased access to that Myrddraal as it apparently does to humans.

 

Sorry if that wasn't clear, earlier.

[Vardar]

This is high speculation. Don't you guys think that someone would've noticed if Myrddraal could channel?

 

Not that they can channel, but that the gene is what makes them fades.

[XoMeltdownoX]

This is high speculation. Don't you guys think that someone would've noticed if Myrddraal could channel?

 

Not that they can channel, but that the gene is what makes them fades.

I do not remember when I came to that conclusion, but I thought what makes the fades different from Trollocs (the human stock throwback) was the channelling gene. Probably after reading the BWB. Obviously this could be wrong.

[Neophyte]

Well, it doesn't say that outright in the BWB - it just says that they are throwbacks to the human stock used to breed them. I'm guessing (and it is only that, a guess) that the channeling gene would appear with approximately the same frequency among the Myrddraal that it does among humans. But that's an interesting idea, that the channeling gene is what produces a Myrddraal in the first place.

 

Edit: If we ever found out that 1 to 3 % of Trolloc births are Myrddraal, that would be at least circumstantial support for your idea ...

[XoMeltdownoX]

Well, it doesn't say that outright in the BWB - it just says that they are throwbacks to the human stock used to breed them. I'm guessing (and it is only that, a guess) that the channeling gene would appear with approximately the same frequency among the Myrddraal that it does among humans. But that's an interesting idea, that the channeling gene is what produces a Myrddraal in the first place.

 

Edit: If we ever found out that 1 to 3 % of Trolloc births are Myrddraal, that would be at least circumstantial support for your idea ...

Yep. I was not clear. After reading the BWB, I made the connection.

[Vardar]

Well, it doesn't say that outright in the BWB - it just says that they are throwbacks to the human stock used to breed them. I'm guessing (and it is only that, a guess) that the channeling gene would appear with approximately the same frequency among the Myrddraal that it does among humans. But that's an interesting idea, that the channeling gene is what produces a Myrddraal in the first place.

 

Edit: If we ever found out that 1 to 3 % of Trolloc births are Myrddraal, that would be at least circumstantial support for your idea ...

 

Yep, the percentage given for trolloc births is about what you'd expect for the channeling gene, is half of them were male (Since there are no female fades). That's where the general theory comes from, people making the connection. Plus the fact that Fades can feel channeling.

 

It's never been confirmed, some people think it's a horrible theory, but others think it's a good one. I like it myself.

[Neophyte]

OK, I'm cool with that. It even plays into my idea of the Dark One being able to make a "special connection" with a Myrddraal because of that gene,

[Ferdawoon]

Has SH ever done anything directly that didn't involve the Forsaken?

 

I can't remember, but it seems to me that the only times he interacts with the world physically is to beat on Mesaana, Moghedian and Grendal. He doesn't release Semi himself, he tells Elza to. It might not have been possible for him to take the access key, and Semi taking it on the way to capture Rand would be a pretty stupid idea.

 

He gives Alviarin her special "Property of the Dark One" visible only to Shadowspawn mark. He also picks up a spear in ACoS chapter 40, then burns it to ash with shadowfire. So, it seems like picking up the statue would have been an option. Destroying it probably would have been too - the True Power seems to have very few limits in what it can destroy (the Wondergirls poured saidar into the sad bracelets and couldn't even mark them, but Rand with the TP made short work of them). I just don't think he had any reason to do so.

Well, we have all learned that the Dark One is Destruction 'personified' as it were. That he have the power to destroy the pattern, the wheel or whatever it is that make the world come to an end.

It is no wonder that the True Power, derived right from the Dark One then have a goo0d affinity for destroying things

There could of course be a Yin-Yang style to the True Power as with the One Power, but I think I'm going to make a new post about that later instead of hijacking this thread

[msbee]

Ok, how about this for a 3rd sa'angreal candidate (or the key for one).

 

Back in TGH ch9, Bayle Domon is sitting on his boat in Illian looking at items he had bought in Maradon that winter : a lightstick, a skull of a cat with fangs, a cuendillar disc with the ancient AS symbol on it (one of the seals, of course), and, a small ivory carving of a man holding a sword - which made the man selling it feel warm when he held it.

 

He's been chased and harassed ever since he left Maradon, and now someone is trying to search his boat (and kill him).

We assume this is all because of the seal in his possession, but ever since Moridin's luke-warm reaction to Demandred's insistence that all the seals must be recovered (KOD 3), I've wandered whether Ba'alzamon was actually after the small ivory carving, which just may be a male sa'angreal.

 

Domon later loses everything to Turak and there is no specific mention of the carving again. But, Turak is mainly interested in heartstone (seal) so the carving may simply be lost again.

Or, a DF could have followed the progress of Domon's possessions and retrieved it.

Or, it was eventually assumed that Domon never took the carving out of Maradon, and that is why Maradon was the first city attacked by the Trolloc hordes...

 

Yeah, I know, lots of conjecture and speculation.

I expect that carving will never be heard of again, but it's one of those niggling little items that invites fun speculation.

[thisguy]

Ok, how about this for a 3rd sa'angreal candidate (or the key for one).

 

Back in TGH ch9, Bayle Domon is sitting on his boat in Illian looking at items he had bought in Maradon that winter : a lightstick, a skull of a cat with fangs, a cuendillar disc with the ancient AS symbol on it (one of the seals, of course), and, a small ivory carving of a man holding a sword - which made the man selling it feel warm when he held it.

 

He's been chased and harassed ever since he left Maradon, and now someone is trying to search his boat (and kill him).

We assume this is all because of the seal in his possession, but ever since Moridin's luke-warm reaction to Demandred's insistence that all the seals must be recovered (KOD 3), I've wandered whether Ba'alzamon was actually after the small ivory carving, which just may be a male sa'angreal.

 

Domon later loses everything to Turak and there is no specific mention of the carving again. But, Turak is mainly interested in heartstone (seal) so the carving may simply be lost again.

Or, a DF could have followed the progress of Domon's possessions and retrieved it.

Or, it was eventually assumed that Domon never took the carving out of Maradon, and that is why Maradon was the first city attacked by the Trolloc hordes...

 

Yeah, I know, lots of conjecture and speculation.

I expect that carving will never be heard of again, but it's one of those niggling little items that invites fun speculation.

It's definitely a good line of thought for speculation. It also makes sense as none of the other Forsaken were released from their imprisonment at that point. It could also just be an oversight by RJ. But, if it wasn't, I like the line of thought and the points you've connected.

[Luckers]

Well, it doesn't say that outright in the BWB - it just says that they are throwbacks to the human stock used to breed them. I'm guessing (and it is only that, a guess) that the channeling gene would appear with approximately the same frequency among the Myrddraal that it does among humans. But that's an interesting idea, that the channeling gene is what produces a Myrddraal in the first place.

 

Edit: If we ever found out that 1 to 3 % of Trolloc births are Myrddraal, that would be at least circumstantial support for your idea ...

 

Yep, the percentage given for trolloc births is about what you'd expect for the channeling gene, is half of them were male (Since there are no female fades). That's where the general theory comes from, people making the connection. Plus the fact that Fades can feel channeling.

 

It's never been confirmed, some people think it's a horrible theory, but others think it's a good one. I like it myself.

 

This would seem to rule that out.

 

Brandon Sanderson

 

Myrddraal are not Trollocs who can channel. Their powers are totally independent from the One Power. They really are just throwbacks to the human stock. Harriet added that there are also animal throwbacks, but they just die.

 

Ok, how about this for a 3rd sa'angreal candidate (or the key for one).

 

Back in TGH ch9, Bayle Domon is sitting on his boat in Illian looking at items he had bought in Maradon that winter : a lightstick, a skull of a cat with fangs, a cuendillar disc with the ancient AS symbol on it (one of the seals, of course), and, a small ivory carving of a man holding a sword - which made the man selling it feel warm when he held it.

 

He's been chased and harassed ever since he left Maradon, and now someone is trying to search his boat (and kill him).

We assume this is all because of the seal in his possession, but ever since Moridin's luke-warm reaction to Demandred's insistence that all the seals must be recovered (KOD 3), I've wandered whether Ba'alzamon was actually after the small ivory carving, which just may be a male sa'angreal.

 

Domon later loses everything to Turak and there is no specific mention of the carving again. But, Turak is mainly interested in heartstone (seal) so the carving may simply be lost again.

Or, a DF could have followed the progress of Domon's possessions and retrieved it.

Or, it was eventually assumed that Domon never took the carving out of Maradon, and that is why Maradon was the first city attacked by the Trolloc hordes...

 

Yeah, I know, lots of conjecture and speculation.

I expect that carving will never be heard of again, but it's one of those niggling little items that invites fun speculation.

 

That figurine was definately an angreal, though I doubt Ishamael was hunting that over the seal. Doubtless he would have had his people get both, though.

[Vardar]

This would seem to rule that out.

 

I recall that quote, but he says "Who can Channel", and technically the theory is just that it's caused by the channeling gene, not that they can channel.

 

It does put a dent in it but not disprove. Oh well, thanks anyway.

[Luckers]

This would seem to rule that out.

 

I recall that quote, but he says "Who can Channel", and technically the theory is just that it's caused by the channeling gene, not that they can channel.

 

It does put a dent in it but not disprove. Oh well, thanks anyway.

 

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure there is another quote, one by RJ, that specifically states that Myrddraal are not what occur when the Trolloc gene to channel breeds true. It's not in the Interview Database (it's not the only one of the old quotes that were missed, Terez has been re-adding them as they're found). I'll see if I can dredge it up.

[Vardar]

This would seem to rule that out.

 

I recall that quote, but he says "Who can Channel", and technically the theory is just that it's caused by the channeling gene, not that they can channel.

 

It does put a dent in it but not disprove. Oh well, thanks anyway.

 

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure there is another quote, one by RJ, that specifically states that Myrddraal are not what occur when the Trolloc gene to channel breeds true. It's not in the Interview Database (it's not the only one of the old quotes that were missed, Terez has been re-adding them as they're found). I'll see if I can dredge it up.

 

That would be awesome thanks.

[Neophyte]

This would seem to rule that out.

 

I recall that quote, but he says "Who can Channel", and technically the theory is just that it's caused by the channeling gene, not that they can channel.

 

It does put a dent in it but not disprove. Oh well, thanks anyway.

 

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure there is another quote, one by RJ, that specifically states that Myrddraal are not what occur when the Trolloc gene to channel breeds true. It's not in the Interview Database (it's not the only one of the old quotes that were missed, Terez has been re-adding them as they're found). I'll see if I can dredge it up.

 

Well, that would definitely put the kibosh on all this. I'd love to see it too, thanks.

[FarShainMael]

This quotes BS on the subject, but does not give the source:

 

http://www.readandfindout.com/wheeloftime/messageboard/133088/

 

I'll dig a bit more.

[Mulk]

I guess that would mean that the Myrddraal get mostly human genes, but those genes are warped and changed by the use of the True Power in the making of the Trollocs initially?

[FarShainMael]

A bit more:

 

http://www.theorylan...=2645&page=2#24

[Vardar]

Yea but those still don't state whether their creation is caused by the channeling gene or not, which is the theory.

 

It's an odd coincidence if it's unreleated.

[FarShainMael]

He did feel something. I've posted on this before, can't find it, so I've have another look at EotW.

 

And yes, it would indeed need an access key.

 

ETA:

 

For an instant it seemed to Rand that a shadow rippled through the milk-white structure. He pulled his eyes away...

 

At that point, Rand has only channelled twice - once in EotW11, to energise Bela, and once in EotW20, when trollocs attack Bayle Domon's boat. So he isn't too experienced.

 

As to its being a bridge - consider its position, north of all those lands between the Mountains of Mist and the Spine of the World like Illian and Tear. A last line of defence if the Borderlands should fall? It could have been a bridge, or a tower, or a lifesize statue of Tamyrlin, whatever took its designers' fancy!

 

And if it is indeed just a bridge, why is it the only structure of its kind? Why aren't there similar crossings on all the rivers?

There's something mentioned in the Age of Legends sequence when Rand goes through the crystals at Rhuidean that made me think of white bridge.... I think it is a terangreal or something else...

 

I just finished that scene minutes ago...

 

 

That being said, nice white bridge theory!

 

Apparently I'm far from being the first to have thought about the White Bridge perhaps being that third sa'angreal....

 

http://www.presskanne.com/theory/442

 

This one's nice.. is it a Gateway?

 

http://inspiration.dragonsworn.com/index.php?display=post&p=4200&f=5