Mesaana and Asmodean?

[mlva103]

I assume most of the non-balefired dead forsaken will be brought back to life for the last battle but what about Mesaana and Asmodean?

 

Will Asmodean be brought back to life for the last battle? If he is will he turn back to the light? I personally think we won't see him and if we do he will not turn back to the light.

 

Will Mesaana be tried and put to death? She is brain dead but she is still a forsaken. Shouldn't she be tried and put to death? If she is not will someone heal her? One way or another I don't think we have seen the last of her.

[Maleshub]

My impression is that Mesaana is destroyed! Even if she dies, she will be reincarnated as a drooling idiot. What Egwene did to her has the same final impact of Balefire. Mesaana is totally lost.

 

As to Asmodean, I don't know how Graendal killed him. But an issue to consider is that the DO cannot bring back anyone from the dead. I think there is a certain timeframe in which that is possible. So unless the DO reincarnated him right after he died, he might be lost forever as well.

[bbarrett90]

graendal killed asmodean?

[Roxinos]

The Great Lord has no need of Asmodean. He betrayed the Shadow, and the Great Lord does not give boons to betrayal.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Asmodean couldn't be brought back even if the DO wanted to bring him back. (This is even without the time constraint, but Theodril is right, it has been too long now.)

 

 

INTERVIEW: Oct 11th, 2005

KOD Signing Report - Ted Herman (Paraphrased)

 

TED HERMAN

 

Since you said at an earlier signing that the Dark One couldn't have brought back Asmodean if he wanted, was that at the time of Asmodean's death, or after that?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

The Dark One couldn't bring back Asmodean because of the combination of two factors: HOW HE DIED and WHERE HE DIED. Not one or the other, both factors.

 

As for Mesaana, I don't really know, not enough info about what Egwene did to her. I suspect that her body could be used for something, like DO using it as a puppet to kill a heap of people.

 

 

Edit:

The Great Lord has no need of Asmodean. He betrayed the Shadow, and the Great Lord does not give boons to betrayal.

 

Or, he would bring someone back, just to kill them again, but more slowly and painfully!

[Maleshub]

graendal killed asmodean?

 

Yes. It is in the glossary of ToM. It was a nice surprise that I learned on these forums.

[Roxinos]

graendal killed asmodean?

 

Yes. It is in the glossary of ToM. It was a nice surprise that I learned on these forums.

 

Well, it's explicitly stated in the glossary. And implied by Shaidar Haran in the book.

[EmperorMayhem]

the DO himself says he won't resurrect Asmodean because of his betrayal, in the beginning of LoC. did Robert Jordan happen to clarify how exactly and where exactly Asmodean died that made him unable to be resurrected?

[glenkrasner]

OK, I understand the How of him dying (Balefire)..... But, what I can't figure out, or understand is the Where.....

What does the location of his death (Caemlyn ?) have to do with it? What am I missing? :)

[TristanWebb]

Well, Caemlyn is about to be attacked by trollocs, the only capital we know of that is. They could just have easily attacked Cairhien, more easily because it isn't filled with channellers. So perhaps we will find out something special about Caemlyn in january?

[rand4747]

the waygate is inside the city, only tar valon is the same that we know of.

[TristanWebb]

Cairhien's waygate is in Bathanes' old estate, how far out of the city is that?

 

EDIT: Though I supposed with the Black Tower just a couple of miles outside the city full of darkfriends (or atleast mind controlled people who will fight for the DO) it might be a better place to set up a base of operations than anywhere else.

[Cybertrolloc]

Before Graendal gets hauled off for rape-your-minion-into-a-better-antagonist by SH, there's a clue to where, but then how is immaterial--like sufficient BF making where unimportant :) Since BS didn't know about that clue when asked... (he said BF).

[rand4747]

Cairhien's waygate is in Bathanes' old estate, how far out of the city is that?

 

EDIT: Though I supposed with the Black Tower just a couple of miles outside the city full of darkfriends (or atleast mind controlled people who will fight for the DO) it might be a better place to set up a base of operations than anywhere else.

 

Its not far most are near the citys, and in The great hunt wasn't it? That Rand ran from the foregate to the estate from trollocs. Its still outside the city to you must get over the walls to get into the city. Or witht he use of a channeler blow them apart.

[yoniy0]

Rand never fled Barthanes's estate, he fled the Illuminators Guild. Later, he accepted an invitation to one of Barthanes's balls.

 

I had an idea, that perhaps the 'where' is related to the effect Rand has on the Pattern. Back in TFoH he wasn't his Dark self yet, but he might've been more evolved (with regard to his oneness with the land, that is) than he was when Balthamel and Ishamael died. It's a long-shot, but perhaps it has some connection to what RJ had in mind.

[Finnssss22]

Rand never fled Barthanes's estate, he fled the Illuminators Guild. Later, he accepted an invitation to one of Barthanes's balls.

 

I had an idea, that perhaps the 'where' is related to the effect Rand has on the Pattern. Back in TFoH he wasn't his Dark self yet, but he might've been more evolved (with regard to his oneness with the land, that is) than he was when Balthamel and Ishamael died. It's a long-shot, but perhaps it has some connection to what RJ had in mind.

 

I still believe he was taken to a portal stone world and disposed of but that's just me.

But I have thought along the lines you are mentioning as well and there was large amount of Balefire used in the area recently.

[EmperorMayhem]

he couldn't have been taken to a portal stone world, since he was standing in the palace when he turns, says you? no! and dies. they likely would have said that he was taken elsewhere if that is what happened. so i'm still not sure what is so special about the palace in Caemlyn (sp)

[Finnssss22]

he couldn't have been taken to a portal stone world, since he was standing in the palace when he turns, says you? no! and dies. they likely would have said that he was taken elsewhere if that is what happened. so i'm still not sure what is so special about the palace in Caemlyn (sp)

 

Actually....

He pulled open the small door, intending to find his way to the pantry. There should be some decent wine. One step, and he stopped, the blood draining from his face. "You? No!" The word still hung in the air when death took him.

 

I like to read that as Graendal taking him because it fits nicely with how quickly she thinks about portal worlds to escape the DO in ToM.

I know it's a little weak but so is every other explanation ;)

 

And killing Asmo instantly just doesn't seem to fit in with what we know of her. She is always craving info and just isn't that wasteful.

With how easily she dealt with and reacted to Cyndane and Moggy's visit. I highly doubt that a blocked Asmo would present much challenge.

[yoniy0]

Did she know he was blocked, though?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Did she know he was blocked, though?

 

I think so, her, Sammael and Rhavin had a chat with Lanfear about it at the start of FoH. At least Lanfear told them about Asmodean being Rand's teacher, I suppose she would have told them of him being blocked.

[Finnssss22]

Did she know he was blocked, though?

 

Again, with what we know of her, do you think she would of made such a bold move if she didn't know she had an advantage?

[ChaosBorn]

What about Osan'gar being reborn (again) As far as I remember Elza killed him at the cleansing with Callandor, but did not use balefire. So surely he could be reborn? Unless the Dark One can't ressurect someone twice

[mlva103]

What about Osan'gar being reborn (again) As far as I remember Elza killed him at the cleansing with Callandor, but did not use balefire. So surely he could be reborn? Unless the Dark One can't ressurect someone twice

 

I Would be surprised to see him again. Why would he need to bring back a guy that is half mad and he has failed twice in a short time. Why not raise a new forsaken form this age? but it the DO so who know what he will do.

[Kahsm]

graendal killed asmodean?

 

Yes. It is in the glossary of ToM. It was a nice surprise that I learned on these forums.

 

Well, it's explicitly stated in the glossary. And implied by Shaidar Haran in the book.

 

It explicitly says no such thing. It says:

 

she was responsible for the deaths of Aran'gar and Asmodean and for the destruction of Mesaana.

 

We know perfectly well she didn't pull the trigger herself on Aran'gar, Rand did that. So how can it explicitly mean Graendal killed Asmodean? It doesn't. I suspect that it probably was her, but it's not certain. It could have been a Graendal minion. I mean, "You!" seem a little odd between two forsaken.

[Suttree]

graendal killed asmodean?

 

Yes. It is in the glossary of ToM. It was a nice surprise that I learned on these forums.

 

Well, it's explicitly stated in the glossary. And implied by Shaidar Haran in the book.

 

It explicitly says no such thing. It says:

 

she was responsible for the deaths of Aran'gar and Asmodean and for the destruction of Mesaana.

 

We know perfectly well she didn't pull the trigger herself on Aran'gar, Rand did that. So how can it explicitly mean Graendal killed Asmodean? It doesn't. I suspect that it probably was her, but it's not certain. It could have been a Graendal minion. I mean, "You!" seem a little odd between two forsaken.

 

Please don't start all this up again Kael. Some noob will latch on and run with it. BS has explicitly stated the glossary answers the question. It was Graendal.