Jump to content



Verin vs. The Seanchan Armed with a Two Rivers Girl


Recommended Posts

Okay, this is a loose sort of theory, but here it is... recently when I sat down with Brandon, I asked the following.


Question Seventeen


Luckers: Did Verin have any other reasons for going to the Two Rivers, other than recruiting girls?


Brandon: RAFO *he grins at me*. You know I’m going to RAFO Verin stuff. We’ve given a lot there.


The reason I asked this question was because I've always wondered about Verin and Seanchan. Verin studied the Seanchan, we even see she has made notes and annotations much like she did with the Black Ajah.


“There is the matter of the Seanchan, Mother.”


“What of them? All my reports say they have fled back across the ocean, of to wherever they came from.”


“It seems so, Mother. But I fear we may have to deal with them again.” Verin pulled a small leather notebook from behind her belt and began leafing through it. “They spoke of themselves as the Forerunners, or Those Who Come Before, and talked of the Return, and of reclaiming this land as theirs. I’ve taken notes on everything I heard of them. Only from those who actually saw them, of course, or had dealings with them.”


“Verin, you are worrying about a lionfish out in the Sea of Storms, while here and now the silverpike are chewing our nets to shreds.”


The Brown sister continued turning pages. “An apt metaphor, Mother, the lionfish. Once I saw a large shark that a lionfish had chased into the shallows, where it died.” She tapped one page with a finger. “Yes. This is the worst. Mother, the Seanchan use the One Power in battle. They use it as a weapon.”


And it occurred to me to wonder... Verin is one of the most capable plotters in the Wheel. Subtle, patient, methodical. In this scene RJ intentionally paints clear how seriously she takes the threat of the Seanchan--directly comparing them with the Shadow, they other great target she has set herself--and in addition during events at Falme Verin was free to study the Seanchan as best she is able.


Next we see her, in terms of the books at least, going to the Two Rivers, and it always occurred to me to ask why? To learn more of Rand and the boys? She doesn't seem to do much to that effect, so why join the mission to find the girls who can channel when there are far more important things in the works? Of course it could be a mission for the Black Ajah, or even Siuan commanding it to get Verin out from under foot, but I had another thought. What if Verin, sneaky, methodical, deadly Verin, chose to go to the Two Rivers precisely because it represented the only known surplas of unsparked channelers?


Consider, if you know that your enemy is using unsparked channelers to enslave active ones [which Verin would have to know, after months of travelling with the girls. There is no chance someone as thorough as she would not dredge every piece of information they had], would you not set up a study upon unsparked channelers? After all, short of killing every man woman and child, how do you nuetralize the Seanchan? By sparking the sul'dam.


I suggest that may well have been Verin's purpose in the Two Rivers, that she was studying unsparked learners in a bid to figure out how to forcibly spark sul'dam. In which case I rather imagine there is someone out there armed with this information. Possibly someone Verin has aimed at Fortuona like an arrow from a bow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting... but this question sparks a larger question in me.. We know Verin is a DF, if a reluctant one. What of her actions throughout the series have been under BA orders? While I find the Seanchan idea interesting, I tend to think that Verin was there on BA business. After all, Fain is almost as wanted a target as Rand is for the Shadow.


This is the one thing that has always kind of bothered me.. We've had hints that Verin is BA, and now know she was, but we never really got any insight into what BA activities she did do throughout the series... Which begs lots of quesitons... Of course, I suppose it could be as easy as she was spying on Rand/Morainne/Suian, etc. but if so, she would be the first DF we've really seen who never does any overt evil acts.




Real problem with Verin being in the Two Rivers on BA business is the unknown about Alanna.. because if she isn't BA then makes it somewhat harder to argue that she was sent there on BA business. Although again I suppose Alanna could have been going there to get more information on the ta'veren boys she is so interested in, and the BA told Verin to tag along to keep an eye on her and stir up whatever trouble/get Fain... I don't know.. Verin just always confuses me! I knew from tGH that she was BA because of her lie to Perrin, Matt & Co. about being sent by Morainne, but I always also thought she was good, and I just don't know! Gahh...



***Head Explodes***

Edited by DaoineSidhe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Verin is possibly capable of manipulating the BA leadership into giving her a mission she wants. One thought to add to Luckers - she's studied Dark prophesy whatever she could glean; has she also studied Seanchan versions of the K Cycle? They're not secretive about it AFAIK and she may just have laid her hands on it?

What is in that set of notebooks apart from the names?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although the forced sparking would be an enjoyable twist, there also is not much time for this sparking to occur (or for the sparkees to accept their sparkhood). Alanna is not BA per Verin's study, however her duty to her country rather than Tower loyalty (Arafel, she is currently returned there) makes me believe in the Orange/Purple Ajah theory speculated on in relationship with Verin - I think it would be ironic a double agent BA and a Borderlander Ajah had been working in unison. As to what they were doing, it is hard to say; perhaps Alanna was 'suggested' to learn about the boys and keep tabs on them under the precept of working with Verin.

Verin, on the other hand, I suspect to be a victim of being peripheral to ta'veren threading - almost as if as some ta'veren have more/less strength, other regular human beings have more/less susceptibility to ta'verenness. Verin could be accidentally prepping an arrow to the sul'dam, but have we really seen evidence of this? It would make more sense for the knowledge of loosening the collar on your own to be spread amongst damane/enforced and then Traveling them to some hidden loci (for destruction). The fact that the Two Rivers girls have that proximity with Egwene and most probably desire to emulate her, being sent into Seanchan kennels for dissension among the channeling ranks makes sense, but I can hardly see Egwene willing it (none are Aes Sedai besides).

In TAR, Egwene I believe sees someone hand her the sul'dam collar (assumedly Tuon, probably figuratively); additionally, in ToM, we see the post-TG Seanchan hunting Aiel but see no mention of sul'dam nor damane (The Leashed Ones? Maybe Leashing becomes an apt punishment?). That being said, if Two Rivers girls were to be taken by the Seanchan they lack the Three Oaths and would be detrimental to the Tower - in the case that this was Verin's plan, it seems rather Blackish in nature. It seems, more likely, that Verin was there to study 'wilders' and the unique Compulsions that they make.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder about Alanna. I think Verin sent her off somewhere. And we know Verin, from studying wilders in the past, had developed a crude compulsion weave. While it can in no way do what any of the forsaken can do, it can at least place a strong idea in someone's head. And Alanna doesn't strike me exactly as strong-willed or 100% mentally stable, so maybe it would be enough to send on whatever task. Also, I think Verin was legit in what she did before she died. I mean think of it, most people become DFs for power and such, aside from greymen, they wouldn't off themselves purposefully for anything. Also, if she wasn't telling the truth, her task could have been done without her killing herself. She could have lied and said she found another way around the oaths or just said yes to one of Eggy's previous guesses or something and lived to do more evil deeds. And then there is the note to Mat. She had no idea about him going to save Moiraine and told him to open it after a few days, which was well before the shadowspawn arrived. She really meant to help them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Verin is just about the most interresting characters in the series. She seems to know almost everything about everything. She could have been learing about sparking those who can learn, it would be one more thing she studied. It would be a useful thing to know if the BA wanted to eliminate the threat of the Seanchan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Create New...