What is the deal with the Egwene-hate?

[Suttree]

Technically the female Aes Sedai signatories to Latra's Concord were not 'right' as they feared the sealing would in fact rip the bore open. Furthermore they held to that conviction long after their own plan to use the Choedan Kal lost viability, despite looming defeat at the hands of the Shadow. That admittedly saved saidar from being tainted, which saved the world, but I still don't know how 'right' you could consider Latra and her followers.

 

To me they are right in the sense that they thought the plan was too dangerous and ended up being correct. I don't feel as if you need to pinpoint exactly what will go wrong if you think something is too rash. After all one could say surfing that spot Ours in Australia is too dangerous. If they say it is because you might drown and then you end up cracking your head on a rock it doesn't make them any less right.

 

In relation to the other plan, I always wonder how imminent defeat actually was. The SaSG says "should" any of the offensives break through then the end could "perhaps" come in "months". Who knows with travelling if that would have been enough time to find the keys?

Edited March 25, 2012 by Suttree

[Elan Tedronai]

There are three things that Egwene’s supporters have never bothered to answer or if they have, they glossed over it as if it does not matter. First, Rand will have to break the seals on the DO’s prison we know it since book 6 LoC. Remember an old philosopher by the name of Herid Fel who was killed by the Gholam for he was about t explain something to Rand. His note was something like and I am quoting from memory if someone can find the exact quote that will be very kind. “Chaos and strife weakens the seals. While peace and harmony strengthen them, you have to clear the rubble before you can rebuild, will explain when I see you next do not bring the girl too pretty and distracts me.” There was something else there that I am not able to bring out of my memory again the actual quote will be appreciated. But, the point is that is when Min started taking interest in those books. She along with Rand is the only other person who knows that Heid Fel had figured it out and that is why shadow had him killed. Therefore, unlike egwene’s off screen preparation for the last battle we have a solid foreshadowing that Rand has to break the seals. Second, Amyrilin and Aes-Sedai were held in awe, fear or respect. World has since changed. They are no longer the biggest, meanest or the most powerful dog in the yard. There are plenty of other channelers and since Dumai’s well and aes Sedai becoming Da’stang at the hand of wise ones they do not command the same respect as they once did. In fact, if you take a look you will find that tower’s influence is reducing with every day. As for respect among wise ones, do you really think that they are going to listen to Egwene if it comes to a conflict between her and Rand? You might be prescient but from what we have read to date even being very polite, it is improbable. Tear and Illian barely came, border landers have sworn to Rand and Ebou dari king is with Rand. That just leave Andor with Egwene as Mayene, Ghealdan and white cloaks are sworn to Perrin who we can safely say is with Rand. She is really as powerful as president of U.S.A. Third, again nobody bothered to answer that we hear in avi’s journey through glass columns that White tower has fallen. In that meeting of elders someone tells it just before Aiel decide to return to waste. Hostilities broke out after about twenty years of dragon’s peace. With queen of Andor an Aes sedai and close friend and she being the leader of forces of light. Why are Seanchan just traipsing through the Rand land. What was the most powerful and the best Amyrilin ever was doing for twenty years if Seanchan just walked through. Especially, if you remember that Seanchan damane cannot link. Pleas or once answer with facts rather than innuendos and hunches.

 

 

dude every tom, dick and harry knows the seal should be broken. the mllion dollar question is what then?

 

 

you see the mighty saviour of thw world had the chance to explain what happens next. but instead he laughed and walked away. not really a suprise because we all know he knows nothing at the moment. He's relying on one of his 3 hussies

[muddasssir]

thank you for two things first is quote and again I cannot quite place it but there was a discussion in that book or a previous one where they were discussing seals and how to seal the DO where Fel mention something about hole and patch again I am quoting it from memory and actual quote will be appreciated. " we are talking about the hole that was drilled in the third age. it means that when wheel turns and comes back to the third age it has to be whole again so that hole can be drilled. unless of course the creator made the prison with a hole and a patch" there was more to it but that was the basic gist of it. next time Rand goes to meet him he receives that note. I know that evidence is circumstantial but it is still better than off screen preparations. As for Avi's vision being a possible future. Well again I am quoting from memory but there was something like that she mentions that it was not like the rings that apprentices pass in their testing and see possible futures. I do not seem to remember but it was bair or amys that mentions that you forget most of it after you have passed through the rings and Avi specifically mentions that this sensation, feeling or whatever is completely different from one she had when she passed through the rings. There is again a bit of foreshadowing as when she came out Rhuidean she absolutely hated Rand. I know she said that is because of her treatment of Elayne but we know that is not true. Second time I need to thanks Suttree because he did raise the doubt in my mind that this could be a possible future. I had always wished that it does not happen but I guess that should be discussed in a separate thread. As for Elan's question and comment about hussies well i guess I have answered above they are the only two people who know that answer is there so I guess he has to depend on that piece of you know what to get the answer.

[Suttree]

thank you for two things first is quote and again I cannot quite place it but there was a discussion in that book or a previous one where they were discussing seals and how to seal the DO where Fel mention something about hole and patch again I am quoting it from memory and actual quote will be appreciated. " we are talking about the hole that was drilled in the third age. it means that when wheel turns and comes back to the third age it has to be whole again so that hole can be drilled. unless of course the creator made the prison with a hole and a patch" there was more to it but that was the basic gist of it.

 

Here you go mate...

 

LoC Ch. 18

"Yes, you do. You’d make a good student." Snatching his pipe out, Herid drew a circle in the air with the stem. "The Wheel of Time. Ages come and go and come again as the Wheel turns. All the catechism." Suddenly he stabbed a point on that imaginary wheel. "Here the Dark One’s prison is whole. Here, they drilled a hole in it, and sealed it up again." He moved the bit of the pipe along the arc he had drawn. "Here we are. The seal’s weakening. But that doesn’t matter, of course." The pipestem completed the circle. "When the Wheel turns back to here, back to where they drilled the hole in the first place, the Dark One’s prison has to be whole again."

"Why? Maybe the next time they’ll drill through the patch. Maybe that’s how they could do it the last time – drill into what the Creator made, I mean – maybe they drilled the Bore through a patch and we just don’t know."

Herid shook his head. For a moment he stared at his pipe, once more realizing it was unlit, and Rand thought he might have to recall him again, but instead Herid blinked and went on. "Someone had to make it sometime. For the first time, that is. Unless you think the Creator made the Dark One’s prison with a hole and patch to begin." His eyebrows waggled at the suggestion. "No, it was whole in the beginning, and I think it will be whole again when the Third Age comes once more. Hmmm. I wonder if theycalled it the Third Age?" He hastily dipped a pen and scribbled a note in the margins of an open book. "Umph. No matter now. I’m not saying the Dragon Reborn will be the one to make it whole, not in this Age necessarily anyway, but it must be so before the Third Age comes again, and enough time passed since it was made whole – an Age, at least – that no one remembers the Dark One or his prison. No one remembers. Um. I wonder. . ." He peered at his notes and scratched his head, then seemed startled to find he used the hand holding the pen. There was a smudge of ink in his hair. "Any Age where seals weaken must remember the Dark One eventually, because they will have to face him and wall him up again." Sticking his pipe back between his teeth, he tried to make another note without dipping the pen.

[XXX]

There are three things that Egwene’s supporters have never bothered to answer or if they have, they glossed over it as if it does not matter. First, Rand will have to break the seals on the DO’s prison we know it since book 6 LoC. Remember an old philosopher by the name of Herid Fel who was killed by the Gholam for he was about t explain something to Rand. His note was something like and I am quoting from memory if someone can find the exact quote that will be very kind. “Chaos and strife weakens the seals. While peace and harmony strengthen them, you have to clear the rubble before you can rebuild, will explain when I see you next do not bring the girl too pretty and distracts me.” There was something else there that I am not able to bring out of my memory again the actual quote will be appreciated. But, the point is that is when Min started taking interest in those books. She along with Rand is the only other person who knows that Heid Fel had figured it out and that is why shadow had him killed. Therefore, unlike egwene’s off screen preparation for the last battle we have a solid foreshadowing that Rand has to break the seals. Second, Amyrilin and Aes-Sedai were held in awe, fear or respect. World has since changed. They are no longer the biggest, meanest or the most powerful dog in the yard. There are plenty of other channelers and since Dumai’s well and aes Sedai becoming Da’stang at the hand of wise ones they do not command the same respect as they once did. In fact, if you take a look you will find that tower’s influence is reducing with every day. As for respect among wise ones, do you really think that they are going to listen to Egwene if it comes to a conflict between her and Rand? You might be prescient but from what we have read to date even being very polite, it is improbable. Tear and Illian barely came, border landers have sworn to Rand and Ebou dari king is with Rand. That just leave Andor with Egwene as Mayene, Ghealdan and white cloaks are sworn to Perrin who we can safely say is with Rand. She is really as powerful as president of U.S.A. Third, again nobody bothered to answer that we hear in avi’s journey through glass columns that White tower has fallen. In that meeting of elders someone tells it just before Aiel decide to return to waste. Hostilities broke out after about twenty years of dragon’s peace. With queen of Andor an Aes sedai and close friend and she being the leader of forces of light. Why are Seanchan just traipsing through the Rand land. What was the most powerful and the best Amyrilin ever was doing for twenty years if Seanchan just walked through. Especially, if you remember that Seanchan damane cannot link. Pleas or once answer with facts rather than innuendos and hunches.

 

 

dude every tom, dick and harry knows the seal should be broken. the mllion dollar question is what then?

 

 

you see the mighty saviour of thw world had the chance to explain what happens next. but instead he laughed and walked away. not really a suprise because we all know he knows nothing at the moment. He's relying on one of his 3 hussies

 

Maybe every Tom,Dick and Harry but not Egwene she thinks the seals should not be broken and Rand should defeat the DO without doing that.

[XXX]

 

 

And this is what I meant by those who resent the female-dominated institutions of political power written about in the Wheel of Time. People who will go to any lengths to deny that the White Tower really has been, and will continue to be after the Dragon's death, the greatest political power in the Westlands, who undermine their legitimacy as such a political authority when it can no longer really be denied, and who heap upon Egwene the exact same crimes of which they accuse the Aes Sedai.

 

That is impossible that the female AS will have the same authority after the LB. It just cannot be when a rival organization of male channelers exist. Either they join which may keep the predominance status of the WT as a gender neutral organization but the status quo where a exclusively female organization being supreme is finished. Unless of course saiden gets tainted again.

[MasterAblar]

I see I have a lot of catching up to do.

 

The consequences of breaking the seals are at least as well known as the consequences of dropping a nuclear bomb, and every bit as devastating. They know that it will free the Dark One to touch the Pattern as he has not done in over 3000 years. The Dark One can only loosely touch the Pattern now, with the three remaining seals intact, and already, the dead are walking, food that should be good for weeks is spoiling as soon as harvested, wardings are failing, the weather is changed and bleak. The idea of letting the Dark One touch the Pattern more strongly, even for a moment, should rightly send terror through those who consider it. Rand proposes breaking the seals for the same reasons someone would propose dropping a nuclear bomb: because they think they know something more that would happen as a result of it. But people who don't believe in that something more, or know nothing about it, would rightly oppose both ideas from the outset.

 

A nuclear bomb is a weapon used to destroy. The seals are a shield used to keep destruction away. And it's a flawed shield seeing as it's breaking apart already as Nyneave said. It may be a terrifying idea, but others, whose sanity is not in question, are not opposed to it. And while Egwene is aware of the general idea of what will happen if the Dark One has greater access to the world, she knows nothing of how to seal him away.

 

 

Egwene believes Rand is going to give her the chance to talk to him, not that he's going to be receptive to having his mind changed. In fact, she knows that's not likely, which is why she's going to such drastic measures as mobilizing the armies and leaders of his allies to oppose him. Nothing about what she's doing shows that she's cemented herself into the position of opposing him, merely that that's where she's starting, as any rational person should given what he proposes to do. On the other hand, Rand is quite explicit about not giving others the choice to follow him or not. He's manipulated people into taking the positions that he wants so they'll do the things he wants, and implies that he's willing to negotiate when he's not.

 

It's the possibility of her mind being changed as opposed to hers that is important. He said he would talk to her at the FoM. She has the oppurtunity to hear his reasons. There's no problem with gathering the various armies in case she has to stop him. In fact she should take all the precautions neccessary to be ready for such a scenario.

 

Nothing about what she's doing shows that she's cemented herself into the position of opposing him, merely that that's where she's starting, as any rational person should given what he proposes to do.

 

At what point has she thought about the possibility that he is right about the seals?

 

If she thinks that such a posibility exists then logically she should wait until she knows more on the subject before deciding what to do.

 

On the other hand, Rand is quite explicit about not giving others the choice to follow him or not. He's manipulated people into taking the positions that he wants so they'll do the things he wants, and implies that he's willing to negotiate when he's not.

 

It's explicit to the readers only, not to the characters.

 

As for following Rand as opposed to the Tower, well, Rand's not supposed to survive the Last Battle. Nobody is planning for the Dragon's survival, not even Min, who insists that she'll insure it somehow. If the Dragon somehow survives, and continues to wish to lead the Westlands, no position Egwene could have taken on his plan would have prevented the Dragon's preeminence over the White Tower's.

 

I was thinking more of the short term, for the Last Battle. However if the nations whose armies have come to the FoM at Egwene's demands come under attack, then Egwene might come under quite a bit criticism considering she is the one who insisted that they bring their entire armies, for a purpose that is likely to be prooved uneccessary.

 

what in the world..... greater purpose? are you being thick here? or may be disingenious? he's not professor xavier. How can he possibly know what egwene's reactions are going to be? how can you assume he knows what egwene's reactions are going to be.

 

I'm not assuming, I'm reading the books. Rand says himself that he intended for Egwene to act as she did in his POV in the epilogue, as well as when he returns to Tear.

 

i have never seen in my life people defending something so stupid as this. a man provokes someone and the explanation is because he knows better. what the hell? bububu he's the lord dragon. she should follow him with no questons asked. who the hell is darlin? jeez. you expect the leader of female chanelllers to simply nod and say yes do whatever you like. open the bore and start tarmon gaidon no questions asked no planning done.

 

Darlin is not following him with no questions asked, he's waiting to hear his reasons for wanting to break the seals before deciding. I expect Egwene to do the same. Not oppose and not support.

 

If the lord dragon laid out his plan and egwene refused it then yeah you mght have a point. but he could not even do that. But i dont blame him coz he hasnt got any LMAO!

 

His plan is irrelevant, it's his reasons for breaking the seals which is important and what Egwene should inform herself about before deciding whether those reasons are good or not.

 

so if he knows so much why didnt he say to egwene what his plan was to seal the bore?

 

Because there was no point in doing so.

 

You always make this distinction as if it makes a huge difference. Yes she thinks there might be another way to seal the DO without breaking the seals but Rand refusing to plan certainly doesn't inspire confidence that he actually has a solid one. Even though it isn't stated straight out it very well may have played a part in her decision to oppose him. Not sure you can say with certainty "that's her only reason".

 

It does make a huge difference, because not having a clear plan about what to do after breaking the seals is a valid reason for opposing him, even if she doesn't know why he wants to break the seals. Rand has not told her anything about his plan, so she has no reason to think that there is an issue on that point. It's not that it isn't straight out, it's that it isn't stated at all or even hinted at. I say that's her only reason because it's it's the only reason she ever gives, whether outloud or in her thoughts. I see no reason to assume she has another reason for opposing him. We might as well assume Rand actually knows exactly what to do once the seals are broken even though he says otherwise just because he doesn't seem to be particularly worried about the issue.

 

- All her actions since the meeting point to use of persuasion and "diplomacy" to convince Rand that his plan is not right. There is no indication that she intends to deny him "physically," which would have been the case if she didn't trust him.

 

Whether diplomatically or not, she is opposing him.

 

We know what Rand knows about the seals, and he doesn't have any clue what to do after breaking them, or how to re-seal the Dark One. Rand would know better than her what would happen after the seals are cleared, but he does very little to explain it or reassure them, just gives a throwaway line that it'll be a bit worse, but it's a risk they have to take.

 

Yes, because he expected her to react like she did.

 

And I don't consider the Asha'man among the forces of the Light. Aside from the few with Rand or Logain, the rest are under Taim's thumb, who is almost certainly a Darkfriend, if not one of the Forsaken in disguise. In any event, they are not an organized political force of the Light.

Taim controls no more than one third of the Ash'aman and they are regardless the most powerful military organization in all of Randland.

 

Exactly. Logain says in KoD that half the ashaman are out of the BT, and not one of Taim's men. Those left at the BT are split between Taim's men, Rand/Logain's men, and neutral.

 

Technically the female Aes Sedai signatories to Latra's Concord were not 'right' as they feared the sealing would in fact rip the bore open. Furthermore they held to that conviction long after their own plan to use the Choedan Kal lost viability, despite looming defeat at the hands of the Shadow. That admittedly saved saidar from being tainted, which saved the world, but I still don't know how 'right' you could consider Latra and her followers.

 

I agree with this. Even though they ended up saving the world, I don't know how right they were refusing to help LTT, when his plan, though risky for specific reasons which are stated in the SaSG, was all they had left.

 

To me they are right in the sense that they thought the plan was too dangerous and ended up being correct. I don't feel as if you need to pinpoint exactly what will go wrong if you think something is too rash. After all one could say surfing that spot Ours in Australia is too dangerous. If they say it is because you might drown and then you end up cracking your head on a rock it doesn't make them any less right.

 

But they did pinpoint exactly what could go wrong. What happened was something that was neither anticipated, nor likely considered possible in the first place. It's more like someone being eaten by a shark in a place where there is not supposed to be any.

 

In relation to the other plan, I always wonder how imminent defeat actually was. The SaSG says "should" any of the offensives break through then the end could "perhaps" come in "months". Who knows with travelling if that would have been enough time to find the keys?

 

LTT does apparently. According to him "Plainly it was going to be impossible to hold the huge sa'angreal long enough for the access ter'angreal to be smuggled out." He's the top commander for the Light. They mights as well trust that he knows what he's doing considering that without him they'd probably have lost the war already.

[Azrayne]

 

And this is what I meant by those who resent the female-dominated institutions of political power written about in the Wheel of Time. People who will go to any lengths to deny that the White Tower really has been, and will continue to be after the Dragon's death, the greatest political power in the Westlands, who undermine their legitimacy as such a political authority when it can no longer really be denied, and who heap upon Egwene the exact same crimes of which they accuse the Aes Sedai.

 

I don't think people resent Aes Sedai because they're female. They resent them because they're arrogant, power hungry, manipulative, deceitful, absurdly entitled and basically treat the rest of the world like it should get on the ground, lick their feet and be grateful that they're allowed to.

 

All that 'no other groups of channelers are allowed?' 'We own everything to do with the one power automatically,' 'go against rulers if they don't put their own will second to that of Aes Sedai,' the obsession with manipulation and control, the certainty that they always no best, no matter what the situation, the way they bully everyone around them, and lose their temper at anyone who doesn't treat them as the next best thing to a goddess?

 

You gotta admit, the Aes Sedai don't exactly treat the rest of the world's population very well. The only reason they get away with it is because they're so much more powerful than everyone else.

 

That tangent aside, I actually like Egwene as a character. She's a bit bland, but much nicer than most of the female channelers in WOT.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Azrayne

[Elan Tedronai]

because there is no point in doing so?

 

fantastic comment by al thor fanboy

 

by th way if LTT did his job as a commander of the light then perhaps those areas would not have been lost to sammael and demandred and the keys would be have been retrieved

Edited March 25, 2012 by Elan Tedronai

[Luzburg]

because there is no point in doing so?

 

fantastic comment by al thor fanboy

 

by th way if LTT did his job as a commander of the light then perhaps those areas would not have been lost to sammael and demandred and the keys would be have been retrieved

 

Relax. Its more or less been verified that the Choeden Kal are not the key to sealing the Dark Ones prison. Things had to happen as they did, they needed to be there for the cleansing of saidin and then to provide a counterweight for the Dragon to survive the lure of the True Power.

[MasterAblar]

because there is no point in doing so?

 

Yes, telling her his plan would not have served him in any way, not to mention there's still a hole in his plan. Besides Egwene doesn't care about how he seals up the Dark One, she doesn't doubt his ability to do so. It's completely irrelevant, she just want's him to keep the seals intact.

 

by th way if LTT did his job as a commander of the light then perhaps those areas would not have been lost to sammael and demandred and the keys would be have been retrieved

 

The shadow was completely overwhelming the light at this point. LTT can't do everything, be everywhere at once. Perhaps he was already busy guarding the area where the CK were being made. Blaming LTT, when it's thanks to him the light was still in it, is preposterous. Not to mention this LPD's plan. Perhaps she should have been more careful.

[DemandredFO]

Besides the Shadow could just make more soldiers and LTT could not.

[MasterAblar]

Besides the Shadow could just make more soldiers and LTT could not.

 

Exactly, the shadow's victory was innevitable. Which is why he decided to act.

[Suttree]

All that 'no other groups of channelers are allowed?' 'We own everything to do with the one power automatically,

 

How far have you read in the series? You do realize your first two sentences no longer apply correct?

 

You gotta admit, the Aes Sedai don't exactly treat the rest of the world's population very well. The only reason they get away with it is because they're so much more powerful than everyone else.

 

Yes the WT is a fallen institution but they have saved the world a number of times over. There are both good and bad AS just like any other group in Randland. To throw out those characteristics as if they apply to all is oversimplifying matters. Also quick question, when you say "will of the AS" what do you think that is exactly? People sometimes throw that out as if the AS have some sinister plot when in reality they have been working for the light the entire time. No whether they are best suited to lead the lights forces is another argument, but that is their goal.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Suttree

[Elan Tedronai]

she wants to keep the seals intact at the moment because there is no plan to seal the the dark one.

 

if rand said to egwene what he planned to do after the seal smash THEN YOU WILL HAVE A POINT IF EGWENE STILL REFUSED.

 

as it is he laughed and walked way. if any military leader acted like that in the real world he would be mocked at will

 

 

but hey rand al thor fanboys will always be fanboys.

 

 

as for LTT. The choedan kal was only meant to be a temprorary plan. Until they figured out a better way of sealing the bore. LTT plan was shit. it was flawed. he thought he could do a job like the creator. all he had to was hold certain areas long enough for the access keys to be made. and he failed. just like he failed at sealing the bore.

 

but the funny thing is even then when he was all powerful he was humble enough to dicuss his plans with the women. no the current bumbling shepherder 2.0 version has no plan, wants to smash the seals in a hurry and yet he's the so called zen master now.

 

 

rand has no plan. pure and simple.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Elan Tedronai

[MasterAblar]

she wants to keep the seals intact at the moment because there is no plan to seal the the dark one.

 

"Yes, but the seals? That's foolhardy. Surely Rand can face the Dark One, and defeat him, and seal him away without taking that risk."

 

Does it sound like she's worried about Rand having a plan or not? No. She doesn't even express any doubt, at any point in the book about whether or not Rand knows how to seal away the Dark One. What the she's worried about is the seals. She thinks breaking them is taking an uneccessary risk and she wants them to stay intact always. There is no "at the moment."

 

but hey rand al thor fanboys will always be fanboys.

 

This doesn't even have anything to do about Rand. It's not his actions we're talking about, it's Egwene's. So actually "Egwene hater" would be the right term here, although it would be just as incorrect as I don't hate Egwene at all. I just think she's wrong in this instance.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Master Ablar

[condonmc]

Jeez.. Look what Robert Jordan has done to us... I wonder what the Creater [may He live on for ever] would have to say about all this.....

[MasterAblar]

Jeez.. Look what Robert Jordan has done to us... I wonder what the Creator [may He live on for ever] would have to say about all this.....

 

He'd probably just laugh at us.

[XoMeltdownoX]

Wow. Another thread about Egwene which has deteriorated into the realm of the ridiculous. I promised myself never to post in one of these, but I can not stand it any longer.

 

For the people who hate Egwene: what are you bloody thinking. Yes you cannot stand the character. Great, say that you hate her because you think she is a terrible bitch and leave it at that. You are being goaded into citing examples, which allows the "other side" to pick apart your reasoning. Stop! If you feel so strongly about a character, it is because while reading the books, you had a gut reaction to the way this character was portrayed. A strong emotional chord was struck when character X did whatever they did or thought. Nobody will change your mind on this subject. Trying to analyze why you feel this way by listing examples will never truly convey to another person, especially someone who is diametrically opposed to your opinion, why you feel this way.

 

For the people who continually argue against the rabid Egwene hate: who the hell do you think you are? How dare you tell me or anyone else that we are wrong to hate a character. Citing reasons or examples for or against a theory is great. Doing so to say they are wrong for disliking a character is just ridiculous. Yes I meant to use the word ridiculous, because this behavior is in fact worthy of ridicule.

 

Personally I loathe her character. In fact Egwene is the only character I actually hate. I have the right to this hate. It is my belief that characters who invoke such strong feelings of distaste, exhibit traits of people we dislike. Egwene reminds me of my sister in laws (enough said). Plenty of people have posted how they hate Faile and Tuon. I actually like these two, but I will not tell people that they are wrong for disliking a character I enjoy reading. Ok, climbing down from soap box...

 

 

[XXX]

she wants to keep the seals intact at the moment because there is no plan to seal the the dark one.

 

if rand said to egwene what he planned to do after the seal smash THEN YOU WILL HAVE A POINT IF EGWENE STILL REFUSED.

 

 

 

That is wrong as she is quoted saying that Rand should defeat the DO with the seals intact. She does not want them broken as she knows nada zero nothing about them.

[condonmc]

 

For the people who continually argue against the rabid Egwene hate: who the hell do you think you are? How dare you tell me or anyone else that we are wrong to hate a character. Citing reasons or examples for or against a theory is great. Doing so to say they are wrong for disliking a character is just ridiculous. Yes I meant to use the word ridiculous, because this behavior is in fact worthy of ridicule.

 

Personally I loathe her character. In fact Egwene is the only character I actually hate. I have the right to this hate. It is my belief that characters who invoke such strong feelings of distaste, exhibit traits of people we dislike. Egwene reminds me of my sister in laws (enough said). Plenty of people have posted how they hate Faile and Tuon. I actually like these two, but I will not tell people that they are wrong for disliking a character I enjoy reading. Ok, climbing down from soap box...

 

 

Hmm you sound like a female character from a book series I read... oh whats Her name.........oh! ya.. Egwene

[Suttree]

In reality we shouldn't judge either character until we see why Rand antagonized her and whether Egwene listens to reason when she hear's what the actual plan Min comes up with is. If her opposition amounts to gathering armies to the FoM for him then there isn't much reason to condemn her actions. Essentially she is waiting to hear what he says...

 

For the people who continually argue against the rabid Egwene hate: who the hell do you think you are? How dare you tell me or anyone else that we are wrong to hate a character. Citing reasons or examples for or against a theory is great. Doing so to say they are wrong for disliking a character is just ridiculous. Yes I meant to use the word ridiculous, because this behavior is in fact worthy of ridicule.

 

Not sure I follow here. For instance when someone states they dislike Egwene because she lacks introspection/never admits her own mistakes/everything she does is perfect(one of the more common complaints) and then someone else offers a rebuttal and posts a passage like the one below then they are wrong in disliking her for that particular reason.

 

TGS Ch. 43

Had she fallen into the same trap as Siuan? It was a danger. She had been trained by Siuan, after all. If Egwene had explained in more detail how well her work in the White Tower was going, would the others have stayed their hands?

 

It was a difficult line to walk. There were many secrets that an Amyrlin had to hold. To be transparent would be to lose her edge of authority. But with Siuan herself, Egwene should have been more forthcoming. The woman was too accustomed to taking action on her own. The way she had kept that dream ter'angreal against the Hall's knowledge and wishes was an indication of that. Yet Egwene had approved of that, unconsciously encouraging Siuan to defy authority.

 

Yes, Egwene had made mistakes. She could not lay all the blame on Siuan, Bryne and Gawyn. She had likely made other mistakes as well; she would need to look at her own actions in more detail later.

 

I can only speak for myself but even though I am neutral on her as a character I feel the need to defend her fairly often becuase of the hyperbole certain members of the hate crowd employs.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Suttree

[XXX]

Atleast according to Rand in the ToM epilogue..the breaking of the seals is not something he is going to negotiate.He is going to break them irrespective of what Egwene or anyone wants. Infact I strongly suspect like the other poster mentioned that he has already broken the seals and Min has already told him what he needs to know. LoL I would love to see that scene from Egwene's perspective if/when he tells that the seals have already been broken.

 

He is there to talk to them about terms of the Dragon's Peace.

[Suttree]

Atleast according to Rand in the ToM epilogue..the breaking of the seals is not something he is going to negotiate.He is going to break them irrespective of what Egwene or anyone wants.

 

Well I don't think Rand should negotiate with anyone on the topic, he is the DR after all. What he should do however is lay out his plan. IMO it would be pretty weak if Min solves one of the bigger mysteries left in the story off screen.

[ironisles]

I just finished TOM today. I do not hate Eq. Heck, I actually like Faile and Gawyn now.. and that's saying something. I have a beef about Eg and Nyn's testing; even the Aes Sedai who supervised was appalled at what they did to her. I can see Eq not wanting to seem to have favorites; that's reasonable. But to stand by and watch Nyn tortured, well that's harder to stomach. Her reaction to Rand is understandable I think. Though I also see the need to get rid of the refuse and remake the prison. You can't repair a wall if you leave the debris in place, you have to clear it away.