[Basic] Literary Villains - Scum Wins

[Red2111]

ultra tempted to move to Arez, but i think he's a newb. Razen, are you new to the game, i dn't think i've played with you yet.

 

 

Blood and ashes.. I won't be able to sleep now =(

 

Lenlo, you betrayeeed me!! Don't you remember the good old times we had running around the moat =)?

 

You gotta separate the outside from the game. In the game, nobody is your friend (well, unless you are Mafia, in which case your scummates are your friends, until they bus you on a lynch to save their own skin). What you do outside has no bearing on this game. It's ruthless.

 

FTFY

 

bold is mine

[John E. Kelley]

A deadline will be set once everyone checks in.

 

And as far as I can see, that means as soon as Tyn checks in.

[Arez Al'Loke]

II'm pro under cover, mehehe..

 

jokes aside, I get the feeling townies shouldn't

attract to much attention =P noe I'm feeling bad about vote killing Razen...

 

I'm pretty sure Lenlo is a mafia, because he saw razen, a townie most likely, vote me and he ttried to take the opportunity to jump on the vote train... I might just switch my vote again.

[Tynaal Consen]

Has Tyn even checked in yet?

 

Vote Tyn.

 

I have this thing, called a Life You should try it some time. Haha

 

A deadline will be set once everyone checks in.

 

And as far as I can see, that means as soon as Tyn checks in.

 

I was tempted to not check in now

 

 

 

Seriously.. This is confusing with Townies being villains and Mafia heroes.. My world is upside down >.<

[Razen]

ultra tempted to move to Arez, but i think he's a newb. Razen, are you new to the game, i dn't think i've played with you yet.

 

 

Blood and ashes.. I won't be able to sleep now =(

 

Lenlo, you betrayeeed me!! Don't you remember the good old times we had running around the moat =)?

 

You gotta separate the outside from the game. In the game, nobody is your friend (well, unless you are Mafia, in which case your scummates are your friends, until they bus you on a lynch to save their own skin). What you do outside has no bearing on this game. It's ruthless.

 

FTFY

 

bold is mine

 

I replaced Boyo in Wombat's game, and I'm in the DPR one going on right now, but I'm not new at the game. It's been a long time since I've played though, and I'm scouring off all of the rust that has collected.

 

You make a good point though, because eventually, it might come to bussing him on a lynch, but on Day 1, if he was Mafia, it serves them well to create a little bit of confusion. Then if everyone decides the vote hopping is out of hand and wants a lynch, well, they can lynch without feeling too guilty. But I'm under the impression that a decent mafia team wouldn't let one of their members draw attention like a lightning rod unless they wanted to pursue a strategy that serves them better by getting a member deliberately lynched and riding that lynch for a couple of days to appear like they were helping to scum hunt.

[amegakure]

I am here. But having diffclties with computer and this phone is trashed. Tonight I will be in to post hopefully

[Basel Gill]

As he says himself, Arez is new at this game, and I highly doubt that he has a team backing him up, which means that he is most likely to be town. I say this because of the vote flips, because if he was being coached, I highly doubt that his teammates would be letting him draw that kind of attention. I am about 70% confident about that.

 

I had some time to look back over the thread. This leapt out at me more than it did the first time around. Now let me get this straight... you are saying that Arez isn't scum, despite the fact that he is behaving as scum, because if he were scum, he wouldn't be behaving as scum? You also seem to be claiming that if Arez were scum, being new to the game, his teammates wouldn't let him make the sort of tells he is making, while simultaneously you are saying I am scum for making the kind of mental mistake that my own alleged teammates should keep me from making? I'm also inexperienced at Mafia, this is my fifth career game, assuming I count DPR's steampunk one as coming before this one. If I were scum, I think I would also be coached, just like you claim Arez would be. So I forgot there was no deadline. Big deal, considering that it has been announced that there will be a deadline and it just hasn't been set yet. Which is pretty much what I expected all along. I think you are doing a bit of overreacting here. I also think your logic is a bit fractured.

[Razen]

As he says himself, Arez is new at this game, and I highly doubt that he has a team backing him up, which means that he is most likely to be town. I say this because of the vote flips, because if he was being coached, I highly doubt that his teammates would be letting him draw that kind of attention. I am about 70% confident about that.

 

I had some time to look back over the thread. This leapt out at me more than it did the first time around. Now let me get this straight... you are saying that Arez isn't scum, despite the fact that he is behaving as scum, because if he were scum, he wouldn't be behaving as scum? You also seem to be claiming that if Arez were scum, being new to the game, his teammates wouldn't let him make the sort of tells he is making, while simultaneously you are saying I am scum for making the kind of mental mistake that my own alleged teammates should keep me from making? I'm also inexperienced at Mafia, this is my fifth career game, assuming I count DPR's steampunk one as coming before this one. If I were scum, I think I would also be coached, just like you claim Arez would be. So I forgot there was no deadline. Big deal, considering that it has been announced that there will be a deadline and it just hasn't been set yet. Which is pretty much what I expected all along. I think you are doing a bit of overreacting here. I also think your logic is a bit fractured.

 

Scum don't want to draw attention to themselves overly much, because as we all know, they want to win the game. Moving your vote around every time you post on D1 is not exactly a way to avoid attention.

Unvote. Vote Razen.

 

Arez has been changing his vote all over the place, and I thought about voting him. But I would like to avoid a random lynch, and I figure Razen's reveal will give us some useful info. We might be able to extraploate something about Arez from how Razen flips.

 

And as for you making a mental mistake, Tynaal hadn't even checked in yet, so at that point in time, there was no deadline. I figured that there would be a deadline as well, but the fact that you seemed more than happy to take off on my train to put me closer to a lynch based on a flimsy reason when you gave just as good of a reason, if not a better one for voting for Arez. Translation: I'm gonna bandwagon even though I have a reason to vote for someone else as well. At that point in time, Arez also had two votes, and it makes more sense to have a competing train instead of speeding through Day 1 with only one train. Trains on D1 generate discussion, which can lead to people making scumtells. What better way to avoid those scumtells than moving towards a quick lynch and no discussion?

[aemonkristen]

I'm happy with my vote where it is right now and without a set deadline we still have the opportunity to pressure another player if it is that becomes necessary.

[Lenlo]

II'm pro under cover, mehehe..

 

jokes aside, I get the feeling townies shouldn't

attract to much attention =P noe I'm feeling bad about vote killing Razen...

 

I'm pretty sure Lenlo is a mafia, because he saw razen, a townie most likely, vote me and he ttried to take the opportunity to jump on the vote train... I might just switch my vote again.

 

I'm mafia for jumping on a train? Arez, I was the first person to vote for you. Blatant lie like that makes me think again about unvoting on you, but I'll see what else comes up before voting again.

[Razen]

I'm happy with my vote where it is right now and without a set deadline we still have the opportunity to pressure another player if it is that becomes necessary.

 

In other words, I have nothing to contribute at this point in time and don't pay much attention to me. Noted. And a vote with no further explanation than just because. Interesting. Especially since we've seen more things happen since the beginning of D1.

 

Checking in and VOTING RAZEN just because I feel like it.

[Red2111]

VOTE: AREZ

[Christine]

Vote Count:

Day 1 - 12 Alive, 7 to Lynch

 

Razen - 4 - Aemon, Cosmic, Arez, Basel

Ishmael - 1 - Sakaea

Basel - 1 - Razen

Tynaal - 1 - Ishy

Arez - 1 - Red

 

Not Voting - Lenlo, Levity, Amega, Tynaal

 

 

Deadline : Monday 5th March at 1800 EST. The deadline is 48 hours from this post.

 

[John E. Kelley]

Unvote.

[cosmicpanda]

Wow, the Basel - Razen thing has become complicated. Let's see if I have it straight.

 

- Basel in post 43, apparently under the impression that we had a deadline approaching, voted Razen. This was because, for unspecified reasons, he thought that Razen would be the best lynch for the purposes of providing information. I'm a little bit unsure about why he thinks that Razen's flip would tell us about Arez, but that's an incidental point.

 

- Two posts later, Razen points out that there is no deadline, and votes Basel for being eager. I've thought this over, and I think this vote reeks of opportunism. I'm a firm believer in letting newbies make their mistakes early on, without jumping at them (witness my telling Arez how to play - I'm not sure I like Red too much at the moment given her vote for him), as newbie mistakes can often seem scummy even if the newbie is town. I prefer to give them a bit longer, so I can judge their reactions to others in the game over time.

 

- Basel comes back. After deciphering his arguments, I think he has a fair point about the hypocrisy of Razen's voting Basel over Arez. Razen didn't vote for Arez because he thinks that Arez would not play like that if he were being coached, but he doesn't think that if Basel were scum that he would be being coached either?

 

- Razen's reply to the above avoids the point completely. Seriously, read it: "Scum don't want to draw attention to themselves overly much, because as we all know, they want to win the game. Moving your vote around every time you post on D1 is not exactly a way to avoid attention." It addresses why he doesn't think Arez is scum, but he told us that already.

 

 

With all that, I'm happy with my vote on Razen at the moment. I'm not too happy with some others in the game. Tyn, for example, has had plenty of time to sort out the philosophical conundrum of who is mafia and who isn't, and should get into it. Why sign up if you're not going to play? Scum, as Razen has so eloquently explained, like to lurk.

[cosmicpanda]

Ishy, why unvote?

[Razen]

Wow, the Basel - Razen thing has become complicated. Let's see if I have it straight.

 

- Basel in post 43, apparently under the impression that we had a deadline approaching, voted Razen. This was because, for unspecified reasons, he thought that Razen would be the best lynch for the purposes of providing information. I'm a little bit unsure about why he thinks that Razen's flip would tell us about Arez, but that's an incidental point.

 

- Two posts later, Razen points out that there is no deadline, and votes Basel for being eager. I've thought this over, and I think this vote reeks of opportunism. I'm a firm believer in letting newbies make their mistakes early on, without jumping at them (witness my telling Arez how to play - I'm not sure I like Red too much at the moment given her vote for him), as newbie mistakes can often seem scummy even if the newbie is town. I prefer to give them a bit longer, so I can judge their reactions to others in the game over time.

 

- Basel comes back. After deciphering his arguments, I think he has a fair point about the hypocrisy of Razen's voting Basel over Arez. Razen didn't vote for Arez because he thinks that Arez would not play like that if he were being coached, but he doesn't think that if Basel were scum that he would be being coached either?

 

- Razen's reply to the above avoids the point completely. Seriously, read it: "Scum don't want to draw attention to themselves overly much, because as we all know, they want to win the game. Moving your vote around every time you post on D1 is not exactly a way to avoid attention." It addresses why he doesn't think Arez is scum, but he told us that already.

 

 

With all that, I'm happy with my vote on Razen at the moment. I'm not too happy with some others in the game. Tyn, for example, has had plenty of time to sort out the philosophical conundrum of who is mafia and who isn't, and should get into it. Why sign up if you're not going to play? Scum, as Razen has so eloquently explained, like to lurk.

 

 

I didn't realize that Basel considered himself new at the game. Going back and reading it again, I see where he says that, and I can completely understand why you say my vote is hypocritical. However, consider this, in chronological order:

 

Post #45:

Unvote. Vote Razen.

 

Arez has been changing his vote all over the place, and I thought about voting him. But I would like to avoid a random lynch, and I figure Razen's reveal will give us some useful info. We might be able to extraploate something about Arez from how Razen flips.

 

As he says himself, Arez is new at this game, and I highly doubt that he has a team backing him up, which means that he is most likely to be town. I say this because of the vote flips, because if he was being coached, I highly doubt that his teammates would be letting him draw that kind of attention. I am about 70% confident about that.

 

At this point, it's too early to say that how I flip can determine how someone else flips based on maybe 5 to 7 posts. The fact that you're so eager to avoid a random lynch when the mod says right here...

 

*Day 1 will have no deadline. Day Cycles will be a maximum of 72 hours and Night Cycles will be 48 hours.

 

...that there is no deadline to day 1 tells me that you are a little too intent on pushing the lynch while seeming to be playing an pro-town game. In fact, Unvote, Vote Basel Gill.

 

and Post #57:

As he says himself, Arez is new at this game, and I highly doubt that he has a team backing him up, which means that he is most likely to be town. I say this because of the vote flips, because if he was being coached, I highly doubt that his teammates would be letting him draw that kind of attention. I am about 70% confident about that.

 

I had some time to look back over the thread. This leapt out at me more than it did the first time around. Now let me get this straight... you are saying that Arez isn't scum, despite the fact that he is behaving as scum, because if he were scum, he wouldn't be behaving as scum? You also seem to be claiming that if Arez were scum, being new to the game, his teammates wouldn't let him make the sort of tells he is making, while simultaneously you are saying I am scum for making the kind of mental mistake that my own alleged teammates should keep me from making? I'm also inexperienced at Mafia, this is my fifth career game, assuming I count DPR's steampunk one as coming before this one. If I were scum, I think I would also be coached, just like you claim Arez would be. So I forgot there was no deadline. Big deal, considering that it has been announced that there will be a deadline and it just hasn't been set yet. Which is pretty much what I expected all along. I think you are doing a bit of overreacting here. I also think your logic is a bit fractured.

 

At the time, I had not assumed that he was an inexperienced player. I stand corrected now. But the fact that you are calling my vote on Basel hypocritical after streching the truth and the time that the information came to my attention is a tad suspicious.

[cosmicpanda]

I'm sorry, how am I stretching the truth?

[John E. Kelley]

Ishy, why unvote?

I was just trying to lure Tyn out with my vote on her. She appeared, so I unvoted.

[Razen]

I'm sorry, how am I stretching the truth?

 

Because you didn't take the time to look back and notice when I had posted my reasons about Arez and when Basel said that I had the same reason for voting him. As I said before, I assumed that Basel was an experienced player and I have since been proved wrong.

[cosmicpanda]

@ Razen: You posted your reasoning about Arez immediately before you voted for Basel. I knew that. I suppose it could have appeared confused my own little summary of events.

 

Okay, so you didn't think that Basel was a new player. Newbies aren't the only ones who can be coached by scumbuddies, of course, but perhaps that does change things a little.

 

 

@ Ishy: And was her appearance completely satisfactory to you in all regards?

[aemonkristen]

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

 

Ishy (1)- Kae

Razen (3)- Aemon, Panda, Arez

Red (1)- Basel

Basel (1)- Red

Panda (1)- Razen

 

Not Voting: Lenlo, Amega, Levity, Tynnal, Ishy

 

With 12 alive, 7 to lynch

 

No deadline set...yet.

 

We need to put pressure on someone to get this game moving. Razen has 3 votes. I'd like to get other to apply some pressure and see what happens.

 

Please pay attention to the game Razen. Of course, we did just see how you react to pressure. Ignoring the reasons for my voting does not encourage me to remove the vote.

[Razen]

Checking in and VOTING RAZEN just because I feel like it.

 

I added the lime green bolding - your reason for voting me in the first place.

 

I'm happy with my vote where it is right now and without a set deadline we still have the opportunity to pressure another player if it is that becomes necessary.

 

We need to put pressure on someone to get this game moving. Razen has 3 votes. I'd like to get other to apply some pressure and see what happens.

 

 

Please pay attention to the game Razen. Of course, we did just see how you react to pressure. Ignoring the reasons for my voting does not encourage me to remove the vote.

 

You said you encouraged OTHERS to put pressure on. And now you are saying that I am ignoring the reasons for you voting me? Your vote was a joke vote, from what I picked up. So forgive me if I am not taking you seriously, but you just posted a complete logic fail. You never added any reasoning beyond "just because." You stated that you wanted to see how I reacted to pressure, but you had already voted before you stated that you wanted to see how I respond to pressure.

[aemonkristen]

Is it illogical to press for pressure on someone? Why? My reasoning behind my continued voting, which is what you called into question, is that I want pressure on you. Your continued attempts to twist that into something else will avail you not.

[Razen]

No, it is not illogical to press for pressure on someone, but it was not your initial reason for voting. You may have changed your reason for voting since then, and that's understandable. You also say that you have seen how I reacted. I wanted to put out there that you have had multiple reasons for voting, because you have changed your reasoning since you voted.

 

However, the way you approached it is illogical. Saying I ignored your reasoning is not true. I used the initial reason for your vote. Then, later, you called for others to apply pressure and stated that at that point in time that there was no reason for you change your vote. That is not a reason for voting me, it is a justification of your INITIAL reason for voting me.