Wombat's A Song of Ice and Fire Mafia (Advanced) Game Thread

[Paperblade]

wtfaemon

 

You realize your first point of evidence is a quote from Razen, right?

 

The second is because Wombat confirmed there are "scum" factions and that I believe the Cult can talk to each other.

[keyholder21]

 

Also also I don't understand the assumptions he's making (all factions can recruit?). I will agree that people making town/mafia arguments don't understand the game but you seem to be forgetting (ignoring?) that 2-3 factions are enemies with everyone else as far as we know.

 

I definitely agree about the assumption that all factions can recruit is weird.

 

Bolding, yes, but there are unaligned survivors.

[Paperblade]

I don't really consider survivors when I'm thinking about factions since they don't need anyone dead (Also Night's Watch) but yeah you are technically correct

 

the best kind of correct

[Razen]

wtfaemon

 

You realize your first point of evidence is a quote from Razen, right?

 

The second is because Wombat confirmed there are "scum" factions and that I believe the Cult can talk to each other.

 

You're a little quick there to assume that it's all about you. That first post was to point out that I had said that I had no reason to believe that factions were not united, thus implying that I am on a team that can communicate. Not you. And yet you take it to believe that Aemon is immediately coming after you. Interesting.

[Paperblade]

no he posted it earlier saying "here Paperblade strongly implies he is united"

 

I assumed he was actually referring to my post

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/67500-wombats-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-mafia-advanced-game-thread/page__view__findpost__p__2183379

[aemonkristen]

@Paper- Yes. Despo said the first couple of names I named as confirming themselves as being in factions that communicate. Those were you, and Razen, hence the quote from each of you. He says Trench was included on someone else's list, but I haven't been able to find it. Despo, I'd appreciate it if you could tell me who said that, because I'm not finding it.

[keyholder21]

 

the best kind of correct

 

?

[Paperblade]

@Paper- Yes. Despo said the first couple of names I named as confirming themselves as being in factions that communicate. Those were you, and Razen, hence the quote from each of you. He says Trench was included on someone else's list, but I haven't been able to find it. Despo, I'd appreciate it if you could tell me who said that, because I'm not finding it.

You originally used it as evidence that I was a member of a united faction, hence my comments about you putting words in my mouth. :|

 

 

the best kind of correct

 

?

Futurama quote. "You are technically correct--the best kind of correct."

[WWWwombat]

Vote Count:

 

Ape(5): Crusher, Despothera, JF80, Thorum, PatsFanTX

Vicious(2): Songstress, 鲍勃不是我的名字

Aemon(1): Paperblade

Thorum(8): Song, Keyholder, Leelou, Vicious, Razen, Ape, Meesh, trench

Amadine(1): Sakaea

Paperblade(1): Aemon

 

With 24 voting player it takes 13 to lynch.

 

Deadline: February 25 at 1 PM EST

[John McClane]

Single best post of the game and I agree 100%.

 

So....... Is the ape dead yet?

 

 

Is it piggy? Let's see....

 

First:

 

Key comes out to semi-defend Nol, attacking Red's case at the same time. Key has me worried this game, there were a couple of other posts I didn't grab cause I was already pulling so many, but at one point she came on thread to admonish an inactive, when she's been fairly inactive as well. Add to that the fact that she also brought back up the whole greyjoy argument right when more people were starting to pay attention to Nol. Strong FOS so far at everyone I've quoted.

 

It wasn’t a defense of nol; it was a prod at Red. Saying she was overlooking some of the bigger problems to focus on nol. Felt like she was trying to protect a teammate that had received some heat.

 

Bolded - Are you kidding me Des? I'm definitely in the 10 most active people this game - not at the top of that list, sure, but go back and look at the list of who's posted the most, you'll find I'm closer to the top than the middle or the bottom.

 

If you're referring to specifically yesterday, DM was down when I finally had a few minutes to look at my mafia games, so yeah, I couldn't post yesterday.

 

I also didn't "bring back" the argument. It was still being talked about, so that's why I decided to weigh in. You should get things straight before you post...

 

....like quoting the death scene of nolder and then voting for him .

 

And now I'll go back through and reread to see who I should focus on today.

 

 

GJ linking yourself with Ape, he also used the flub I made voting for Nol to try and belittle and dismiss my case

 

First:

 

Key comes out to semi-defend Nol, attacking Red's case at the same time. Key has me worried this game, there were a couple of other posts I didn't grab cause I was already pulling so many, but at one point she came on thread to admonish an inactive, when she's been fairly inactive as well. Add to that the fact that she also brought back up the whole greyjoy argument right when more people were starting to pay attention to Nol. Strong FOS so far at everyone I've quoted.

 

It wasn’t a defense of nol; it was a prod at Red. Saying she was overlooking some of the bigger problems to focus on nol. Felt like she was trying to protect a teammate that had received some heat.

 

Bolded - Are you kidding me Des? I'm definitely in the 10 most active people this game - not at the top of that list, sure, but go back and look at the list of who's posted the most, you'll find I'm closer to the top than the middle or the bottom.

 

If you're referring to specifically yesterday, DM was down when I finally had a few minutes to look at my mafia games, so yeah, I couldn't post yesterday.

 

I also didn't "bring back" the argument. It was still being talked about, so that's why I decided to weigh in. You should get things straight before you post...

 

....like quoting the death scene of nolder and then voting for him .

 

And now I'll go back through and reread to see who I should focus on today.

 

 

Despo lost any credibility he brought to the game as soon as he did a complete 180 going from "I want to focus on inactives" (even though you and I are the ones he targeted) to basically having a hard-on for bullying my train forward. His actions contradict his statements.

 

Wow Ape you sure do spin some complete bs. I don't recall ever saying we should focus on inactives, in fact I was saying it was too early to do that. My actions don't contradict squat, you're just shotgunning out as many weak defenses and lies as you can to try and produce as much WIFOM as possible. What you don't get is that you're not just dodging the noose in this game bro.

 

Zero sense? I already said it once, just because you dont agree with the post, does not make the logic faulty. I saw a claim I did not buy and I voted for it. What more is there to talk about.

 

Also I dont like the Ape train going on right now. Both night kills point to 2 factions setting up Ape for an easy kill, and I would bet money that the people who sent those kills in already have teammates on Ape's train.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it this way. The very first thing that I thought after seeing the kills pop up was that it was way too obvious that the dead people were those Ape had picked out (for lack of a better term). No experienced player would be so blatantly obvious as to who they had killed, which definitely leads me to believe that it's a setup lynch of some sort. And if TWO teams are working to get him out of the game, I'm definitely sensing that they can at least communicate within their ranks, which does not bode well for the rest of us. Those on the train right now would be my best bet for a vote.

 

Well, Amega was a killer - so, he probably shot Verbal or Nolder.

 

If he shot Verbal, it wouldn't have taken much to point at the fact that I was the only one to vote Verbal. But that is flimsy.

 

I'm assuming Amega shot Nolder, Amega mentioned multiple times he wanted to judge me based on how Nolder flipped. Amega is gone, and Crusher seems to be carrying the torch for him now. Doesn't mean Crusher is aligned with Amega. It does mean Crusher is being opportunistic. Nolder flipped Lannister, not scum. We don't know for fact that Nolder could talk to his teammates. Because of this, Crusher is pushing the unsubstantiated and illogical conclusion that Lannisters are the closest thing to scum. With no basis. This is a huge ping.

 

Crusher should be the lynch, without question. He's much too smart to believe what he's saying in order to sustain this play against me right now.

 

Another post I didn't like of Ape's. He's making overt attempts at directing everyone, and in a faction game that's just plainly moronic.

 

Okay, as for everything else that's happened recently...

 

 

What a cluster.

 

Thorum's post def looked weird, but FOS at everyone jumping on his easy bandwagon. So many better targets out there than going for one guy who puts his own neck on the line with that statement. Some even tried throwing out that he might be cult out there, with pretty much no evidence or reasoning. In fact when I have more time I might try to find who did that, they'd prob be our best choice for cult.

 

@aemon: I never went scrubbing through the entire thread looking for who admitted having a QT, but I was curious to find them. Anyways, you claim to have found a few more, but I found your first two examples to be weak and not very conclusive. Only one you brought up that seemed legit was trenchtown rock, but someone else already pointed that out. So basically, looks like you're trying to redirect attention. Should you be alive tomorrow, I'll remember to keep you in my sights.

 

Let's see what else... nothing distinct that I remember being asked of me or anything (except for that I replaced Cosmic), but I will comment on the whole cult issue. Everyone is still thinking in regular mafia mode, where town is on one side, mafia on another, and cult somewhere in between. In this case, yes, cult is a bigger threat. However, this game is nothing like that. There were more than likely a semi-large group of unaligned survivors (prob in the 6-8 range or so), and they weren't there simply to be recruited by the cult. We should all operate on the assumption that every faction has some kind of ability to recruit. They prob can't recruit as easily as cult, but still.

 

And given that we know for a fact that there's multiple recruiting roles out there, it's very easy to see that more than likely faction leaders prob have an ability to protect one of their own members from being recruited. In other words, cult really isn't anywhere near as big of a threat this game. The only threat are those not in your faction, period. If you're unaligned, there's really no reason to fear anyone more than anyone else. I'd say scum is Lannister, and that's a pretty easy assumption to make, so if you want you can focus on getting rid of cult and Lannisters, but you could end up being recruited by Lannisters in the end so there's no telling.

 

Either way, shift out of the town/mafia/cult mindset and get a grip on what's really going on here.

 

Kk, off to band practice, will catch up later

 

Blue:

Key is no more, no less linked to me than Nolder. People over-selling these connections between players because of OUT IN THE OPEN remarks are full of shit. For the last time, team mates are not as blatant as what Despo, Crusher and others would have us believe with these horribly exaggerated cases.

 

Green:

In my book, Despo is hinting at having the ability to kill me - since he can't get me lynched.

 

Red:

I almost always lead, and rarely follow. Its not a reflection of anything specific to this game. That said, I'm pretty sure I've put cases and observations on the table and encouraged people to hear me out... which is different from Despo voting me and badgering people with an ongoing case about me, how exactly? Yeah. Those who live in glass houses and such.

 

Purple:

More setup talk from Despo. I agree with some of what he says here... the fact that there is a cult, and the fact that we know that at least one faction had a recruiter, and its likely there are roles/abilities that can prevent conversion/recruitment. That's about it.

 

I still don't see how Despo and Crusher are making the leap to Lannister equating to scum... especially after Despo just chided us all for thinking in terms of town/scum/cult. Despo seems to assume Lannister has a recruiter, but it was the Night Watch that had a recruiter - and they have a different win condition than the other factions. This is a big detail that is getting ignored completely. Maybe if Despo did some of this reading he keeps saying he's going to do... he'd have noticed this? Before puking up more setup scenarios to further confuse people.

 

So:

 

Night Watch had a recruiter, and wins by factional survival.

 

All the families have win conditions that require eliminating all threats to them.

 

My guess is that we still have a small cult presence (I say small because there has only been 2 night phases), Night Watch cannot grow their numbers and are down 2 including their recruiter, and the families will need to slowly pick each other off.

 

The Greyjoy house is down a nightkiller. I would say the next priority is to kill nightkillers from other families and cult. Despo is hinting NK ability... do the math.

 

If Despo actually re-read, he'd know it was Vic who suggested that both myself and Thorum are good bets for cult... and it was me that first pointed it out, as he now agrees with me.

[John McClane]

Why is Despothera saying Lannisters are "scum" when their list of enemies is the same as the Greyjoys except with Lannister/Greyjoy switched ?_?

 

Also I don't understand how Cult isn't a bad thing if everyone except maybe King in the Narrow Sea wants them dead.

 

Also also I don't understand the assumptions he's making (all factions can recruit?). I will agree that people making town/mafia arguments don't understand the game but you seem to be forgetting (ignoring?) that 2-3 factions are enemies with everyone else as far as we know.

 

 

Good post.

 

I didn't feel good about your hop-on vote about me, but you make a lot of sense here as I just did a WoT expressing similar observations.

[The Crusher]

Despo, you voted Nolder in the same post where you quoted his coroner report, and in the same post where you lectured us about how important it is to read the coroner reports.

 

Then you told us you don't like to talk setup. Since that exact post, you've proceeded to effuse more setup talk than the rest of the game combined. 3 WoT's all of them delving into conjecture about setup, blah, blah, blah... nothing but a bunch of theories that serve NO good to anyone.

 

Multiple times you said you would do a re-read, and you haven't. I mistook one of the things you said to someone else as a comment about pressuring inactives. That is my bad, because I was skimming your posts - because they are filled with shit.

 

I'm having a very difficult time taking you seriously... even your insinuations that I'm not just trying to dodge the noose. Are you really this desperate to see me dead?

 

 

Really? I thought it was a great post.

[John McClane]

Despo, you voted Nolder in the same post where you quoted his coroner report, and in the same post where you lectured us about how important it is to read the coroner reports.

 

Then you told us you don't like to talk setup. Since that exact post, you've proceeded to effuse more setup talk than the rest of the game combined. 3 WoT's all of them delving into conjecture about setup, blah, blah, blah... nothing but a bunch of theories that serve NO good to anyone.

 

Multiple times you said you would do a re-read, and you haven't. I mistook one of the things you said to someone else as a comment about pressuring inactives. That is my bad, because I was skimming your posts - because they are filled with shit.

 

I'm having a very difficult time taking you seriously... even your insinuations that I'm not just trying to dodge the noose. Are you really this desperate to see me dead?

 

 

Really? I thought it was a great post.

 

Which is what worries me.

[The Crusher]

Why is Despothera saying Lannisters are "scum" when their list of enemies is the same as the Greyjoys except with Lannister/Greyjoy switched ?_?

 

Also I don't understand how Cult isn't a bad thing if everyone except maybe King in the Narrow Sea wants them dead.

 

Also also I don't understand the assumptions he's making (all factions can recruit?). I will agree that people making town/mafia arguments don't understand the game but you seem to be forgetting (ignoring?) that 2-3 factions are enemies with everyone else as far as we know.

 

 

Good post.

 

I didn't feel good about your hop-on vote about me, but you make a lot of sense here as I just did a WoT expressing similar observations.

 

Doggins game had the lannisters and the Starks and they spent money to buy votes and orphans could join a faction. Seems totally reasonable other factions can recruit. I like Depo, gots swagger.

[The Crusher]

Despo, you voted Nolder in the same post where you quoted his coroner report, and in the same post where you lectured us about how important it is to read the coroner reports.

 

Then you told us you don't like to talk setup. Since that exact post, you've proceeded to effuse more setup talk than the rest of the game combined. 3 WoT's all of them delving into conjecture about setup, blah, blah, blah... nothing but a bunch of theories that serve NO good to anyone.

 

Multiple times you said you would do a re-read, and you haven't. I mistook one of the things you said to someone else as a comment about pressuring inactives. That is my bad, because I was skimming your posts - because they are filled with shit.

 

I'm having a very difficult time taking you seriously... even your insinuations that I'm not just trying to dodge the noose. Are you really this desperate to see me dead?

 

 

Really? I thought it was a great post.

 

Which is what worries me.

 

I will feel better once your dead. Just feels right. Sorry monkey.

[Sakaea]

Ape quote:

I still don't see how Despo and Crusher are making the leap to Lannister equating to scum... especially after Despo just chided us all for thinking in terms of town/scum/cult. Despo seems to assume Lannister has a recruiter, but it was the Night Watch that had a recruiter - and they have a different win condition than the other factions. This is a big detail that is getting ignored completely. Maybe if Despo did some of this reading he keeps saying he's going to do... he'd have noticed this? Before puking up more setup scenarios to further confuse people.

 

This. So much this. Bolding partially mine. Pet peeve time: I hate it, really hate it, when people come in to be replacements, and appear to not even catch up on what's gone down, they just jump in with both feet. When Des voted for Nolder in the same post where he quoted Nolder's death, I thought, ok, maybe he meant to vote someone else, or he was reading and typing at the same time (been guilty of that one myself) but all this stuff he's spewing (yes spewing) just seems like he wanted to play, but didn't keep up with the game, and now hasn't bothered to read everything. This is not JN. There are not 50 pages of Spidey pics, homo jokes, and that's what she said. Ya know? Shouldn't be hella hard to catch up. So, much as I still think Ama needs to appear and input, I'm gonna Unvote Ama, Vote Des for spewing crap that makes no sense to those of us who have been here since the game started.

[John E. Kelley]

Ape quote:

I still don't see how Despo and Crusher are making the leap to Lannister equating to scum... especially after Despo just chided us all for thinking in terms of town/scum/cult. Despo seems to assume Lannister has a recruiter, but it was the Night Watch that had a recruiter - and they have a different win condition than the other factions. This is a big detail that is getting ignored completely. Maybe if Despo did some of this reading he keeps saying he's going to do... he'd have noticed this? Before puking up more setup scenarios to further confuse people.

 

This. So much this. Bolding partially mine. Pet peeve time: I hate it, really hate it, when people come in to be replacements, and appear to not even catch up on what's gone down, they just jump in with both feet. When Des voted for Nolder in the same post where he quoted Nolder's death, I thought, ok, maybe he meant to vote someone else, or he was reading and typing at the same time (been guilty of that one myself) but all this stuff he's spewing (yes spewing) just seems like he wanted to play, but didn't keep up with the game, and now hasn't bothered to read everything. This is not JN. There are not 50 pages of Spidey pics, homo jokes, and that's what she said. Ya know? Shouldn't be hella hard to catch up. So, much as I still think Ama needs to appear and input, I'm gonna Unvote Ama, Vote Des for spewing crap that makes no sense to those of us who have been here since the game started.

 

I wanted to make this same point, but Kae beat me to the punch. I'm not feeling the Ape train, Thorum would be one I'll fall back on should DL creep up on us, but it was an easy decision for me to reach on Des. C'mon, he voted for Nol in the same post where he was quoting Nol's coroner report. Skim much?

 

Vote Des.

[John McClane]

Unvote

Vote Despo

 

Reason should be obvious.

[Songstress]

To address a few of the points brought up. It is true that I am on in a faction that can communicate. I have never denied it. I find it interesting, however, that some of the other people that have admitted it as well were not mentioned in the BG/Songstress hunt for communicating factions.

 

Why is everyone assuming all factions are united? I have seen nothing to imply that.

 

I've seen nothing to prove that they are not united, although I do admit that it would be interesting to find out whether that it is true one way or the other. The fact that you bring this up leads me to believe that you might not have a faction. Or that if you do, you don't know who they are. And that means either you are unaligned or something more sinister.

 

Paperblade strongly hints he is in a faction that can communicate.

 

Why is everyone assuming all factions are united? I have seen nothing to imply that.

 

I've seen nothing to prove that they are not united, although I do admit that it would be interesting to find out whether that it is true one way or the other. The fact that you bring this up leads me to believe that you might not have a faction. Or that if you do, you don't know who they are. And that means either you are unaligned or something more sinister.

Note that I said "all factions."

Razen also admits to being in a communicating faction.

 

Alright. You know what. Here is a reveal.

 

 

I am in a faction, and I have no idea who else is in it.

 

This post stinks. I dont buy this reveal at all. Its way to convenient to claim you do not know your Teammates, but are on a faction. Right after discussion of, if all factions are aware of each other. I want to see what you are hiding, by making this flimsy reveal. Vote Christine.

 

As for lynching inactivity, I dont know if I am ready to head down that road yet, I would rather give the Mod time to replace them if they cant stay active.

 

Trench admits to a communicating faction.

 

Amazing how all these people are in communicating factions, yet Songstress and BG didn't see them. I think they may be hiding something.

 

Yeah, not so much...

 

I've been taking pretty detailed notes from the time the game started (even before I subbed in), and keeping a summary of observations player by player. This would be extremely OCD of me, as I have been taking note of the completely pointless spam posts as well. It's taking an enormous amount of time, but it's helping me keep track of patterns and things that would be easy to overlook.

 

I might as well note here that I am in a faction that does not know the other house members and cannot communicate (not unaligned), and the best way for me to get an idea of who may and who may not be in my faction is to note what they have said about whether or not their faction can communicate.

 

This is not to say I believe all those who can communicate within their faction need to be killed off, because except for the Lannisters, who based on Nolder's statements are pretty safe to assume have a QT, I don't have a clue which of the other factions can communicate until someone that I've noted as probably having a QT dies. It's very possible that some of the factions with a QT are not an enemy of mine.

 

In any event, Razen did not get noted as having faction communication on my list primarily because I have a pretty strong hunch about what faction he is already.

 

The quote you listed from Paperblade I obviously interpreted differently. What he actually said first was to ask why people assumed all factions were united (could communicate), and then after Razen said he'd seen nothing to prove they are not and accused Paper of being unaligned or cult, Paper clarified he said "all factions"... Clearly he believed some could and some could not, and his first quote was to question the people who assumed they all could.

 

As for Trench, I didn't read that as him saying he didn't believe Christine's reveal that she was in a faction that could not communicate. I read it as him saying her timing on the reveal was opportunistic and that was what "stinks", not the communication part. I may be reading it in that light based on others who said basically the same thing, I'd have to go back through my notes to see if he clarified it later.

 

But that's the reason these three weren't on my list - nothing hidden.

[Songstress]

Let's see what else... nothing distinct that I remember being asked of me or anything (except for that I replaced Cosmic), but I will comment on the whole cult issue. Everyone is still thinking in regular mafia mode, where town is on one side, mafia on another, and cult somewhere in between. In this case, yes, cult is a bigger threat. However, this game is nothing like that. There were more than likely a semi-large group of unaligned survivors (prob in the 6-8 range or so), and they weren't there simply to be recruited by the cult. We should all operate on the assumption that every faction has some kind of ability to recruit. They prob can't recruit as easily as cult, but still.

 

And given that we know for a fact that there's multiple recruiting roles out there, it's very easy to see that more than likely faction leaders prob have an ability to protect one of their own members from being recruited. In other words, cult really isn't anywhere near as big of a threat this game. The only threat are those not in your faction, period. If you're unaligned, there's really no reason to fear anyone more than anyone else. I'd say scum is Lannister, and that's a pretty easy assumption to make, so if you want you can focus on getting rid of cult and Lannisters, but you could end up being recruited by Lannisters in the end so there's no telling.

 

Either way, shift out of the town/mafia/cult mindset and get a grip on what's really going on here.

 

I'd really, really like to know where you get these assumptions.

 

All we know for sure is that 1) There is a cult in this game, and 2) The Night's Watch faction did have a recruiter, which Wombat explained the mechanics of earlier.

 

These assumptions are a little off the wall from what we know, unless you are either a faction recruiter or have a protection ability yourself.

[aemonkristen]

I can see how we have a differing interpretation of what Paper was getting at. It could go either way. But Razen and Trench are two completely different cases. Razen says he doesn't see any reason to believe that the factions are not able to communicate. That is a pretty clear sign that he can communicate. I find it odd that you would dismiss this by saying you "have a pretty strong hunch about what faction he is". It's like saying the evidence doesn't matter because intuition trumps all. Here is the original Razen quote.

 

Why is everyone assuming all factions are united? I have seen nothing to imply that.

 

I've seen nothing to prove that they are not united, although I do admit that it would be interesting to find out whether that it is true one way or the other. The fact that you bring this up leads me to believe that you might not have a faction. Or that if you do, you don't know who they are. And that means either you are unaligned or something more sinister.

 

Trench clearly says that he believes it is too convenient for Christine to claim being on a faction that does not know its members. How did you get that he was saying the timing stinks. Check out the bolded section of the quote. It's pretty clear he didn't believe that there were factions that could not communicate and that she she was part of one.

 

Alright. You know what. Here is a reveal.

 

 

I am in a faction, and I have no idea who else is in it.

 

This post stinks. I dont buy this reveal at all. Its way to convenient to claim you do not know your Teammates, but are on a faction. Right after discussion of, if all factions are aware of each other. I want to see what you are hiding, by making this flimsy reveal. Vote Christine.

 

As for lynching inactivity, I dont know if I am ready to head down that road yet, I would rather give the Mod time to replace them if they cant stay active.

[Songstress]

I can see how we have a differing interpretation of what Paper was getting at. It could go either way. But Razen and Trench are two completely different cases. Razen says he doesn't see any reason to believe that the factions are not able to communicate. That is a pretty clear sign that he can communicate. I find it odd that you would dismiss this by saying you "have a pretty strong hunch about what faction he is". It's like saying the evidence doesn't matter because intuition trumps all. Here is the original Razen quote.

 

Why is everyone assuming all factions are united? I have seen nothing to imply that.

 

I've seen nothing to prove that they are not united, although I do admit that it would be interesting to find out whether that it is true one way or the other. The fact that you bring this up leads me to believe that you might not have a faction. Or that if you do, you don't know who they are. And that means either you are unaligned or something more sinister.

 

Trench clearly says that he believes it is too convenient for Christine to claim being on a faction that does not know its members. How did you get that he was saying the timing stinks. Check out the bolded section of the quote. It's pretty clear he didn't believe that there were factions that could not communicate and that she she was part of one.

 

Alright. You know what. Here is a reveal.

 

 

I am in a faction, and I have no idea who else is in it.

 

This post stinks. I dont buy this reveal at all. Its way to convenient to claim you do not know your Teammates, but are on a faction. Right after discussion of, if all factions are aware of each other. I want to see what you are hiding, by making this flimsy reveal. Vote Christine.

 

As for lynching inactivity, I dont know if I am ready to head down that road yet, I would rather give the Mod time to replace them if they cant stay active.

 

I don't dispute that Razen said he was in a faction that could communicate. The only reason he wasn't on my list was that I didn't note this in my summary on him, so I didn't have an indication to go back and look for it when I was trying to help Despo find ones that he'd overlooked.

 

The reason I didn't note it in my summary was solely because I didn't need to use that fact to puzzle out whether he was in my faction, because I have a very strong hunch already.

 

As for Trench, I checked my detailed notes, and found the post I was thinking of:

 

My logic is not flawed just because someone does not agree with it. Ameon and Perfextionist want everyone to just dismiss my post out of hand as stupid. I'll admidt its not the most rock solid case I ever put together, but its not illogical to conclude that Christine's reveal was convenient and sketchy at best. I did not like the timing of it, and do not want to just take her at her word. She is either lying or is a neutral, I want to find out.

 

I took that later statement into account when analyzing whether he meant he didn't believe she was in a faction that couldn't communicate. As I recall there were others, including Keyholder, who noted they thought her reveal was fishy because of the timing as well, not so much because they didn't believe she was a member of a house faction that did not have communication.

 

He may have meant it that way, but it wasn't clear to me, which is why he also was not in my post.

[Christine]

Christine, oh stump-ish one, are you Shai? Or another character of a whore-ish persuasion?

 

 

Not even close, my dear.

 

 

I am surprised there is not more support for an Ape lynch.

[hazelkrs1]

Despo, you voted Nolder in the same post where you quoted his coroner report, and in the same post where you lectured us about how important it is to read the coroner reports.

 

Then you told us you don't like to talk setup. Since that exact post, you've proceeded to effuse more setup talk than the rest of the game combined. 3 WoT's all of them delving into conjecture about setup, blah, blah, blah... nothing but a bunch of theories that serve NO good to anyone.

 

Multiple times you said you would do a re-read, and you haven't. I mistook one of the things you said to someone else as a comment about pressuring inactives. That is my bad, because I was skimming your posts - because they are filled with shit.

 

I'm having a very difficult time taking you seriously... even your insinuations that I'm not just trying to dodge the noose. Are you really this desperate to see me dead?

 

Again with the comment about me voting Nol. I really don't see what's so hard to grasp about this: I came in as a replacement, and saw that I had 45 pages to catch up on. I started my catch up at like 8:00 that day or something, and posted soon after saying I was catching up. I then spent nearly ALL DAY catching up, till DM stopped working around 3 or 4 and I took a nap. I had only read up to page 37. Granted, I was occassionally rereading posts and stuff to see if I could pick up on something else, but I am by no means a slow reader. This lets you know what kind of task it was to catch up. Halfway in the middle of my reread, I checked the last couple of pages to see if anything had happened, and saw that morning had come, and then read the coroner reports. And continued my reread, only to be interrupted then finish it later at work, where I rushed to get my post in before we started audit. As such, I got a little confused and forgot Nol had been killed.

 

What's funny about all this is that I ended up being 100% right about Nol, he was Lannister scum. Speaking of which, I don't think there is a typical "scum" team like there normally is, but let's face it. The Lannisters are pretty much the bad guys in the series. Morality isn't defined very solidly in the series however, much like in real life, so it's not quite so night and day, but it's still fairly obvious that you aren't really meant to be "rooting" for Tywin, Cersei, or the Lannister clan in general.

 

As for this game, even tho some factions have many enemies, they might not have the same type of advantages I suspect the Lannisters have. Such as a QT for instance, or maybe they don't have the ability to kill every night but the Lannisters do. Anyways, even if they weren't scum in this game, I'd still want to see every Lannister dead simply on the basis of reading the series, no matter what faction I was on (I might have even gone so far as to backstab my own teammates had I rolled Lannister this game lol )

 

And anyways, why is it so important to you that you try and clear the Lannister name? You don't want us offing your family or something? I mean dude, you're screaming that you're Nolder's Lannister buddy and now you're having your little emo streak because someone said your family is scum.

 

Also, I did end up doing a bit of a reread btw, several times in fact. Not of the whole bloody thread of course, I'm not freaking insane. But several times after saying I would go back and reread, I would end up going back and finding what I was looking for and quoting it. Way to ignore my posts (sorry they're so full of crap, but you keep flinging so much of it my way I can't seem to store it anywhere else )

 

Oh and I wouldn't say I'm desperate to see you dead, but I do think you're a Lannister so I wouldn't mind at all to see your corpse.

I hope you're Tywin just so we can find you on the John with a quarrel in your gut

 

 

 

@Desp-

 

Why is everyone assuming all factions are united? I have seen nothing to imply that.

 

I've seen nothing to prove that they are not united, although I do admit that it would be interesting to find out whether that it is true one way or the other. The fact that you bring this up leads me to believe that you might not have a faction. Or that if you do, you don't know who they are. And that means either you are unaligned or something more sinister.

 

He admits here to being in a faction that communicates by saying he has no reason to believe there are factions that cannot. Hardly inconclusive evidence.

 

 

Why is everyone assuming all factions are united? I have seen nothing to imply that.

 

I've seen nothing to prove that they are not united, although I do admit that it would be interesting to find out whether that it is true one way or the other. The fact that you bring this up leads me to believe that you might not have a faction. Or that if you do, you don't know who they are. And that means either you are unaligned or something more sinister.

Note that I said "all factions."

 

Here Paper insinuates that he is on a faction that communicates by stressing that he said "all factions" in his previous post. Again, hardly inconsequential. What is noteworthy is the fact that you are trying to dismiss these others people out of hand.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't see how either post illustrates them saying they have a QT. That whole "united factions" business seemed dumb to me at the time, but either way I'm missing the connection from that to them having QT's. Like I said, I could just be missing something, so maybe if you break it down I might see it your way

 

Why is Despothera saying Lannisters are "scum" when their list of enemies is the same as the Greyjoys except with Lannister/Greyjoy switched ?_?

 

Also I don't understand how Cult isn't a bad thing if everyone except maybe King in the Narrow Sea wants them dead.

 

Also also I don't understand the assumptions he's making (all factions can recruit?). I will agree that people making town/mafia arguments don't understand the game but you seem to be forgetting (ignoring?) that 2-3 factions are enemies with everyone else as far as we know.

 

I'll admit that part of my assumptions regarding recruitment and whatnot comes from meta, I've been in a couple of other faction games, and in both games each faction had kill and recruit night actions. Another part though, comes from the fact that Wombat stated that if a faction lost it's faction leader, the rest of the faction turns into unaligned survivors or whatever.

 

Basically, I see this game as something like Hungry Hungry Hippoes, where every faction is trying to snatch up as many people as it can while also eliminating it's enemies.

 

I didn't align myself with Ape, Des. Although you seem to be trying to link me to him by saying that. I refuted what you had said about me (which btw you didn't comment in the fact that I'm not inactive at ALL). Yhen, I made a little joke about something you did, I didn't say anything about discounting you because of it.

 

I'm actually quite upset you didn't acknowledge my from before, so I'm not going to respond to anything in here, except it is a bit strange that you and Ape seem to keep parroting each other.

 

Thank you for not discounting me btw. It would break my heart if someone bought me for less than my full retail value

[John McClane]

Anyone else have anything to add? Every time this guy posts, its heaping pile of setup conjecture and theoretical assumptions that he can't and won't substantiate.

 

If you were doing half the reading you claim to be doing, you'd have known it was Vic suggesting I was cult, then again suggesting Thorum was cult. You'd have also realized that you are voting me, but then agreeing with the case I was making at teh time about Vic.

 

You may have also noticed the whole bit about Night Watch having a different win condition, and having a recruiter. You aren't playing the game based on the facts we have. You are playing it by filling in all the cracks between the facts, and nothing you are saying is vetted by fact, logic or reason. You are just making shit up and trying to convince people they should accept what is marginal probability, as fact.