Lan's actions led to incredible evil being unleashed on the world

[TreeJoe]

Re-reading tEotW, it's very clear Lan pushed and led the team to seek shelter in Shadar Logoth - Moiraine was looking for another way, but Lan settled on it as an acceptable solution.

 

And thus, Mordeth was unleashed upon the world.

 

If only Lan had been open to other options....All of Lan's good may have been counterbalanced by his field leadership resulting in Mordeth getting loose.

 

:)

 

Discuss as you will.

[dapianoplay3r]

That led to fain which lead to the dagger which lead to the cleansing. So it was worth it

 

And if Fain helps defeat the DO then it was something we couldn't have done without

[kght22]

That led to fain which lead to the dagger which lead to the cleansing. So it was worth it

 

And if Fain helps defeat the DO then it was something we couldn't have done without

good point =P

[Rose]

Also, did they really have other options? It didn't seem like it.

[SharpDressedAsha'Man]

You have to remember that this is Lan we're talking about, undead-haunted cites are not exactly high on his list of things to bother worrying about.

[Mats Spare Hat]

I call bs.

 

To blame Lan absolves every other character involved for their own actions and choices. It's not Lan's fault that Mat picked up & took the dagger out of the city, after having also been grilled, and warned of the dangers of SL.

 

It's also not Lan's fault for Fain being a big tool. Even if Fain hadn't in fact merged - was dead as a doornail, the SL evil corrupto dagger would still have been in play, in the world, because Mat was too dim to pay attention when the magic lady says LOOKOUT! THINGS IS BAD NEWS DDDUUUDES.

 

Did Lan influence the choice to hang out in a bad neighborhood? Yep. Is it Lan's fault that other people make poor choices? Nope.

 

Don't blame the dude who picked the restaurant when you order the week old fish, especially when someone told you the fish is awful.

[2RiversFan]

Mat's Spare Hat wrote:

I call bs

 

Do you really have Brandon's #?

 

j/k.

 

I agree with everything else you said. Lan or any commander can't be held accountable for the actions of another, particularly when they are warned against it.

[bsmnt23]

The Wheel of Time" Abridged by ISAM

 

Moiraine: DO NOT go out into Shadar Logoth, or touch anything!

 

Mat: Let's go out into Shadar Logoth and touch things!

 

Rand and Perrin: Good idea.

 

 

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386600

[Dagon Thyne]

The Wheel of Time" Abridged by ISAM

 

Moiraine: DO NOT go out into Shadar Logoth, or touch anything!

 

Mat: Let's go out into Shadar Logoth and touch things!

 

Rand and Perrin: Good idea.

 

 

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386600

 

Moraine never once warned them that taking items from the city would unleash Mordeth. She didn't even mention it until after the boys has already met Mordeth and even then she only asked if they had been given anything.......Not saying anything about simply picking something up.

[trench]

The Wheel of Time" Abridged by ISAM

 

Moiraine: DO NOT go out into Shadar Logoth, or touch anything!

 

Mat: Let's go out into Shadar Logoth and touch things!

 

Rand and Perrin: Good idea.

 

 

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386600

 

Oh no the ISAM link is back, now I have to go read it all again.

[mj1475]

first if the dagger wasn't in the chest with the horn, would the been able to find it flame.

 

second would rand have been able to cleanse the taint without the knowing about shadar logoth.

 

third i think fain will have a major effect during the last battle, gollum like.

[Asgard Thorin]

first if the dagger wasn't in the chest with the horn, would the been able to find it flame.

 

second would rand have been able to cleanse the taint without the knowing about shadar logoth.

 

third i think fain will have a major effect during the last battle, gollum like.

1st: Good Point.

2nd: Damn Good Point.

3rd: Amen! Amen! (Southern Baptist Preacher mode) Let me hear an Amen!!!!!

[bsmnt23]

The Wheel of Time" Abridged by ISAM

 

Moiraine: DO NOT go out into Shadar Logoth, or touch anything!

 

Mat: Let's go out into Shadar Logoth and touch things!

 

Rand and Perrin: Good idea.

 

 

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386600

 

Oh no the ISAM link is back, now I have to go read it all again.

 

Oh, I dont think it's back; it hasnt been updated in quite some time. I found it several months ago and about died laughing. I thought it was a great satire of the WoT with dead-on depctictions of the characters. I thought this was the perfect forum post to put in a quote, but I dont think SOME people get it.

[TreeJoe]

You don't blame the commander for the actions of his subordinates? What reality do you live in if you believe that?

 

He and Moiraine, especially at that time in the series, practically invented the concept of minimizing information given to their party. He brought the boys into Shadar Logoth, he told them trollocs wouldn't come in. They went around exploring. His leadership led them into this zone without adequately imparting them with appropriate information about the absolute world-changing danger they were in. A little, "This place has a fog that emerges and kills everything each night - oh and everything in it is so tainted it destroys anyone who stays in contact with it." would've gone a long way. But no, let's not hold him or Moiraine accountable...

 

Now, seperately, let's acknowledge that Fain enters Shadar Logoth and encounters mordeth - melds with mordeth regardless of any other action. Simply because the boys were there. So mordeth getting unleashed was a direct result of Lan's commanding.

 

Now, seperately, Matt picks up the dagger (which, who knows what immediate affect it had on him - the effects happened pretty damn quickly afterwards). Moiraine, queen of wordplaying, asks inadequate questions in follow-up. Matt keeps the dagger.

 

The dagger later is sought out by Fain. Did he require it? We don't know. We know it had independent power - did it augment Fain's power? It seems possible, but Fain was pretty damn powerful without it too. He was already Mordeth/Fain.

 

 

...

 

The defenses of this are staggering. I'm talking about Lan's direct effects - his forcible belief that S.L was their only option combined with inadequately educating his charges as they entered.

 

All the defenses people are naming are secondary, indirect effects that may have turned out the same without S.L. - they weren't direct effects, so we don't know.

 

Did Rand cleanse the source because he knew of S.L.? Sure. Could he have done it without that? Possibly. He had enough of the Power to challenge a deity - the same deity who tainted the Source. Or maybe he would've figured out S.L through other means. He's Ta'ver'en after all :)

 

Will Fain somehow help win the last battle? We don't actually know. Evidence kinda points to him being aimed at killing the savior & his party - so I'm guessing he's not exactly going to aid Rand.

[dazparra]

the question remains why didn't moraine kill Fain when they had him captured and imprisoned in Fal Moran or Fal Dara, whichever they were in in book one.

 

she already classes him as worse than a darkfriend and we see throughout the books that aes sedai are practiced at killing people who get in there way let alone a known worse than darkfriend?

[TreeJoe]

Agreed. Mainly I just thought it was fun to poke at Lan here ;)