EOTW = The thing protecting Rand from the Madness

[Sigur]

Sorry if this has already been discussed but I had a thought. In TOM when Nynaeve tries to heal Rands madness she see's all the taint being held back by light. It's my opinion that this was the original intent for the EOTW. The Aes Sedai during the breaking realized that the Dragon would have to deal with the taint so they created the Eye to protect the future Dragon from some of the taint.

 

Thoughts?

[Feral]

That's an interesting theory, but I thought the protection wasn't there until after VoG?

[Tyzack]

What exactly is the Eye of the World? A well-type ter'angreal of untainted saidin?

[andrewks]

Untainted saidin that Rand gobbled up to melt some Trollocs.

[Sigur]

something like...pure Saidin that acts as a buffer for the taint. Could just be a way to manipulate the One Power that was lost after the breaking...either way I've always been curious to see what the Eye of the Worlds true purpose was.

 

This makes a great deal of sense to me. As the AOL Aes Sedai had to have been concerned with how the future Dragon could win if he was mad with the tainted Saidin.

[Kelandon]

That's an interesting theory, but I thought the protection wasn't there until after VoG?

Nynaeve couldn't see the taint in Rand's mind at all until ToM, I think, so there was no way of checking.

 

It's an interesting thought, but I'm not sure that it makes any sense. Rand isn't immune to the effects of the taint; the Callandor stuff shows that. After the Cleansing, everyone's been using pure saidin, and it hasn't cured anyone that we know of. So there are a few things that we would expect as consequences of this that didn't happen.

[Tyzack]

That's an interesting theory, but I thought the protection wasn't there until after VoG?

Nynaeve couldn't see the taint in Rand's mind at all until ToM, I think, so there was no way of checking.

 

It's an interesting thought, but I'm not sure that it makes any sense. Rand isn't immune to the effects of the taint; the Callandor stuff shows that. After the Cleansing, everyone's been using pure saidin, and it hasn't cured anyone that we know of. So there are a few things that we would expect as consequences of this that didn't happen.

 

we haven't met any MCs who have only channeled after the cleansing...persumably for them it would be pure.

[Sigur]

That's an interesting theory, but I thought the protection wasn't there until after VoG?

Nynaeve couldn't see the taint in Rand's mind at all until ToM, I think, so there was no way of checking.

 

It's an interesting thought, but I'm not sure that it makes any sense. Rand isn't immune to the effects of the taint; the Callandor stuff shows that. After the Cleansing, everyone's been using pure saidin, and it hasn't cured anyone that we know of. So there are a few things that we would expect as consequences of this that didn't happen.

 

 

Remember thought that Rand did not get the FULL effect of the EOTW, one of the forsaken got some of it before Rand. Don't think of it as full immunity, think of it as infused Saidin that helps protect the user.

[Kahsm]

The first time I saw this idea was from Dastion in this thread here.

 

Then I kinda stole it and rolled it through that thread, there's a buncha' stuff in there, including why no one will agree with you, though I don't think anyone really disproves anything despite thinking they did. Mainly the objections have to do with everyone thinking Rand actually was insane. Which is a whole other argument in other threads, like this one.

 

RJ says the eye was not used for it's intended purpose. I tend to assume the AOL AS knew that the seals would fail eventually, but since they were made with saidin, they'd have to be "repaired" with saidin, that's why they left the Eye. That's pure speculation, but in theory, the inoculation (as it was deemed) may have only required a bit of channeling, and that it was supposed to be used by many channelers.

 

He also said that condensing saidin was "among other things" that the AS did when they gave their lives to make the Eye, so the inoculation may be one of those other things.

 

Also there's the quotes from Brandon that seem to link the light & power wielded at Maradon post-VoG to the light&power wielded during the EotW battle. And while weak, it's still more evidence than there is to say the light wasn't in Rand's brain before VoG!

[Suttree]

In relation to the Eye protecting him from the taint we have this quote as of aCoS.

 

A Crown of Swords book tour 4 August 1996, Durham, NC - Robyn "Hawk" Goldstein reporting

 

I asked him exactly why the pool of untainted saidin was needed at the Eye of the World. He kind of gave me a RAFO. RJ said that he has an idea of what he wants that to have been for, but he's not sure he's going to use it, so he didn't want to give me information and then change his mind later.

 

This would seem to me to put serious doubt on him being protected all the way back to EoTW.

[Tyzack]

In relation to the Eye protecting him from the taint we have this quote as of aCoS.

 

A Crown of Swords book tour 4 August 1996, Durham, NC - Robyn "Hawk" Goldstein reporting

 

I asked him exactly why the pool of untainted saidin was needed at the Eye of the World. He kind of gave me a RAFO. RJ said that he has an idea of what he wants that to have been for, but he's not sure he's going to use it, so he didn't want to give me information and then change his mind later.

 

This would seem to me to put serious doubt on him being protected all the way back to EoTW.

 

 

So the entire first book is an "Early bookism?"

 

Not that I doubt it; the eye of the world always seemed a bit odd to me as a concept, but everything need to start somewhere.

[Kahsm]

In relation to the Eye protecting him from the taint we have this quote as of aCoS.

 

A Crown of Swords book tour 4 August 1996, Durham, NC - Robyn "Hawk" Goldstein reporting

 

I asked him exactly why the pool of untainted saidin was needed at the Eye of the World. He kind of gave me a RAFO. RJ said that he has an idea of what he wants that to have been for, but he's not sure he's going to use it, so he didn't want to give me information and then change his mind later.

 

This would seem to me to put serious doubt on him being protected all the way back to EoTW.

 

The use could habe been to inoculate many MCs, but Rand hogged it all so that intended purpose is unavailable. Since it's gone, it can never be used for the intended purpose, therefore RJ was suggesting the NEED of the eye is what might have still been used, which is why he wouldn't say. And I have already suggested what the AOL AS might have anticipated as future need of inoculated MCs:

 

Possibly to maintain/fix/repair the saidin seals, maybe reseal again if they failed. I could totally see them knowing the seals will fail at some point and the only way they knew worked in any fashion was saidin seals, but without the eye that would be impossible to duplicate.

 

Or some other AOL perceived need for the stuff, maybe something they know requires men and women to do that the AOL AS thought would need to be done in the future. RJ wouldn't say because he might have still brought that need up in future books.

 

Hell, if it is an inoculation, and Rand had figured that out and hadn't used it all, I'm sure the Asha'man would have bathed in the stuff. Plenty of ways various other purposes could have come up again.

[Dagon Thyne]

I always assumed that Rand and Ishy's link always existed, and that Rand was protected through their link. Remember that the link to the DO protects the Chosen and allows them to touch the True Power. Rand can use the TP, through Ishy, so it's safe to say that he would be protected by their link from the maddess. So both Rand and Ishy would be stopped being protected after Ishy's link to the DO is severed at the end of EOTW.

[Suttree]

I always assumed that Rand and Ishy's link always existed, and that Rand was protected through their link. Remember that the link to the DO protects the Chosen and allows them to touch the True Power. Rand can use the TP, through Ishy, so it's safe to say that he would be protected by their link from the maddess. So both Rand and Ishy would be stopped being protected after Ishy's link to the DO is severed at the end of EOTW.

 

The link was formed when their balefire crossed in Shadar Logoth.

[Thanatos]

I always thought that the Eye was there for an early foreshadowing that the taint on saidin could be cleansed. The Eye was obviously made after the DO counterstrike, so I figured that RJ showed us that for a reason.

[Dagon Thyne]

I always assumed that Rand and Ishy's link always existed, and that Rand was protected through their link. Remember that the link to the DO protects the Chosen and allows them to touch the True Power. Rand can use the TP, through Ishy, so it's safe to say that he would be protected by their link from the maddess. So both Rand and Ishy would be stopped being protected after Ishy's link to the DO is severed at the end of EOTW.

The link was formed when their balefire crossed in Shadar Logoth.

 

The COL and the Nae'blis would have been linked in the past turnings as well. It could be said that their link is a link of their souls and only becomes apparent when something happens to make it physical as well. However, if this theory were true, the effects of it could have protected Rand before the link became apparent in a physical form, after their balefire crossed.

[Suttree]

I always assumed that Rand and Ishy's link always existed, and that Rand was protected through their link. Remember that the link to the DO protects the Chosen and allows them to touch the True Power. Rand can use the TP, through Ishy, so it's safe to say that he would be protected by their link from the maddess. So both Rand and Ishy would be stopped being protected after Ishy's link to the DO is severed at the end of EOTW.

The link was formed when their balefire crossed in Shadar Logoth.

 

The COL and the Nae'blis would have been linked in the past turnings as well. It could be said that their link is a link of their souls and only becomes apparent when something happens to make it physical as well. However, if this theory were true, the effects of it could have protected Rand before the link became apparent in a physical form, after their balefire crossed.

 

Well we do know their souls are frequently woven out together like Birgitte and Gaidal. Ishy is most likely right in thinking they have fought countless times.

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Powell's Books, Portland, OR 19 November 2009 - Matrimony Cauthon reporting

 

I didn't hear the question but someone asked something about Rand's and Moridin's souls being intertwined. Sanderson said that many souls' threads are frequently woven together in the Pattern such as Birgitte and Gaidal. He said that Rand and Moridin are also frequently woven together in the Pattern.

 

Regardless that wouldn't offer any special protection.

[Dagon Thyne]

I always assumed that Rand and Ishy's link always existed, and that Rand was protected through their link. Remember that the link to the DO protects the Chosen and allows them to touch the True Power. Rand can use the TP, through Ishy, so it's safe to say that he would be protected by their link from the maddess. So both Rand and Ishy would be stopped being protected after Ishy's link to the DO is severed at the end of EOTW.

The link was formed when their balefire crossed in Shadar Logoth.

 

The COL and the Nae'blis would have been linked in the past turnings as well. It could be said that their link is a link of their souls and only becomes apparent when something happens to make it physical as well. However, if this theory were true, the effects of it could have protected Rand before the link became apparent in a physical form, after their balefire crossed.

 

Well we do know their souls are frequently woven out together like Birgitte and Gaidal. Ishy is most likely right in thinking they have fought countless times.

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Powell's Books, Portland, OR 19 November 2009 - Matrimony Cauthon reporting

 

I didn't hear the question but someone asked something about Rand's and Moridin's souls being intertwined. Sanderson said that many souls' threads are frequently woven together in the Pattern such as Birgitte and Gaidal. He said that Rand and Moridin are also frequently woven together in the Pattern.

 

Regardless that wouldn't offer any special protection.

 

If their souls were already linked, the effects of the link could have protected him. The closet example, though I am ashamed to use it, would be from Twilight. Bella's powers as a vampire are so strong that their effects could be felt even before she turned. So, this same concept could be what protected Rand. His link to Ishy, though not yet physical, could have been so strong that Rand was protected from the by Ishy's link to the DO....

 

 

However, at the same time, Rand barely channeled at all in EOTW and as far as I know, the less a man channels, the less effects the taint has, and I am pretty sure the taint does not harm someone until after they come into their power.

[Suttree]

I always assumed that Rand and Ishy's link always existed, and that Rand was protected through their link. Remember that the link to the DO protects the Chosen and allows them to touch the True Power. Rand can use the TP, through Ishy, so it's safe to say that he would be protected by their link from the maddess. So both Rand and Ishy would be stopped being protected after Ishy's link to the DO is severed at the end of EOTW.

The link was formed when their balefire crossed in Shadar Logoth.

 

The COL and the Nae'blis would have been linked in the past turnings as well. It could be said that their link is a link of their souls and only becomes apparent when something happens to make it physical as well. However, if this theory were true, the effects of it could have protected Rand before the link became apparent in a physical form, after their balefire crossed.

 

Well we do know their souls are frequently woven out together like Birgitte and Gaidal. Ishy is most likely right in thinking they have fought countless times.

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Powell's Books, Portland, OR 19 November 2009 - Matrimony Cauthon reporting

 

I didn't hear the question but someone asked something about Rand's and Moridin's souls being intertwined. Sanderson said that many souls' threads are frequently woven together in the Pattern such as Birgitte and Gaidal. He said that Rand and Moridin are also frequently woven together in the Pattern.

 

Regardless that wouldn't offer any special protection.

 

If their souls were already linked, the effects of the link could have protected him. The closet example, though I am ashamed to use it, would be from Twilight. Bella's powers as a vampire are so strong that their effects could be felt even before she turned. So, this same concept could be what protected Rand. His link to Ishy, though not yet physical, could have been so strong that Rand was protected from the by Ishy's link to the DO....

 

Twilight? Ermm yeah.

 

The type of link created after SL is totally different from souls being woven out together throughout the ages. Just because two souls are often spun out together does not mean they would effect each other in that way. There is nothing in the text to support that.

[Orderofolde]

I always thought that the Eye was there for an early foreshadowing that the taint on saidin could be cleansed. The Eye was obviously made after the DO counterstrike, so I figured that RJ showed us that for a reason.

I agree, it wasn't enough to ever cleanse the source, but to teach or show Rand that AOL AS managed to clean some of it and allow him to puzzle out how to do it later. The AS were the filters and died for it. So Shadar Logoth became the filter. It's as if inadvertently all the different factions created the different tools in their efforts to go about sealing away the DO that Rand would need later and to fix things. The Eye, The Chodan Kal, Callandor, LTT and his seals. Somehow I'm thinking that little fat man angreal of Rand's still has a part to play...

[MarkDiLillo]

The problem with this theory is that Rand was totally insane until his moment of revelation on the dragonmount...

[Kahsm]

The problem with this theory is that Rand was totally insane until his moment of revelation on the dragonmount...

 

Then he was the most rational, clear thinking, and focused insane person I've ever heard of...

 

Being clinically depressed due to stress causing mood swings is hardly "insanity" as it's described to us in terms of the taint.

[MarkDiLillo]

The problem with this theory is that Rand was totally insane until his moment of revelation on the dragonmount...

 

Then he was the most rational, clear thinking, and focused insane person I've ever heard of...

 

Being clinically depressed due to stress causing mood swings is hardly "insanity" as it's described to us in terms of the taint.

 

Um....he had full blown conversations and arguments with an imaginary voice in his head. Where are you from where that is NOT insane??? And clear thinking....he almost murdered his own father, he wanted to murder an army of people because they only wanted to meet with him in a place where he cant channel, and the make believe voice in his head controlled his actions from time to time?

 

Rand was full blown insane in every sense of the word.

[GYLD]

How about when Rand wields Callandor against the Seanchan? We're specifically told that Callandor magnifies the Taint and we see the results when Rand kills almost as much of his own army as he does Seanchan, which would have been even worse if Bashere were not such a badass. If Rand has been protected from the Taint for so long, I imagine things would have been very different.

[Suttree]

The problem with this theory is that Rand was totally insane until his moment of revelation on the dragonmount...

 

Then he was the most rational, clear thinking, and focused insane person I've ever heard of...

 

Being clinically depressed due to stress causing mood swings is hardly "insanity" as it's described to us in terms of the taint.

 

Um....he had full blown conversations and arguments with an imaginary voice in his head. Where are you from where that is NOT insane??? And clear thinking....he almost murdered his own father, he wanted to murder an army of people because they only wanted to meet with him in a place where he cant channel, and the make believe voice in his head controlled his actions from time to time?

 

Rand was full blown insane in every sense of the word.

 

Don't worry mate, that Rand was insane has been acknowledged all around. Indeed he was neither clear thinking or rational for many books.

 

TGS

Rand reached up, running a hand through his hair. Or he tried to . . . but he used the arm that was only a stump, and it accomplished nothing.

 

Light! he thought. I’m losing control. Half the time, I don’t know which voice is mine and which is his. This was supposed to get better when I cleansed saidin! I was supposed to be safe. . . .

 

Not safe, Lews Therin muttered. We were already mad. Can’t turn back from that now. He began to cackle, but the laughter turned to sobs.