Sheathing the sword.

[Arath Faringal]

Does anyone else rememeber that odd little exchange Rand had with Lan? Where Lan told him that sometimes the only way to win is to sheath your sword in your own body? I remember that that line struck me as really odd, and incredibly ominous. I sort of figured Rand was buggered after that point.

 

What are your thoughts on this? We know Alivia will 'help him die', but I'm thinking it will be an active suicide attempt on his part in order for him to win. Or at least have things his way for once. Alivia just happens to overcome some technical difficulty perhaps? (Can't handle the sword on your own? Lemme stick it in your chest for you . . .)

 

Anywho . . . what say ye? I've not read that line on here for quite some time, and I doubt it was just a random craziness on Lan's part . . .

[mikey sedai]

isn't sheathing the sword the reason that rand gains the wound in his side?

IMO sheathing the sword refers to opening yourself to injury (or even death) if it means gaining an advantage over your enemy. which is what rand does over the skies of falme. he leaves himself open to the staff of ishmael, gaining the never healing wound, but giving him the opportunity to defeat his opponent.

what lan had set up at the beginning of the book, and ingtar supports through his sacrifice is acted out in the final scenes.....leading to theories galore!

[Skull26]

Here is the quote. Pg 147 The Great Hunt.

"I said listen sheephearder," the warder growled. "There will come a time when you must achieve a goal at all costs. It may come in attack or defense. And the only way will be to allow the sword to be sheathed in your own body."

"You will know when it comes, sheephearder, when the price is worth the gain, and there is no other choice left to you. That is called Sheathing the Sword. Remember it."

 

Then on page 666.

"Lan's voice in his head. There will come a time when you want something more than you want life. Ingtar's voice. It is every man's right to choose when to Sheathe the Sword. The picture formed of Egwene, collared, living her life as a damane. Threads of my life in danger, Egwene. If Hawkwing gets into Falme, he can save her. Before he knew it, he had taken the first position of Heron Wading in the Rushes, balanced on one foot, sword raised high, open and defenseless. Death is lighter than a feather, duty is heavier than a mountain.

 

That should explain everything. Just like he said.

[Thor]

When lan said it the first time, I actually thought that it was an actual move where your opponent is close behind you and you drive your sword through your stomach killing both you and your opponent.

 

But I was wrong. :(

[chemteach1977]

lol Thor, that is one funny image.

 

On topic: This was back when foreshadowing was done with a sledgehammer in WOT. Lan teaches Rand about a sword stance that may allow you to kill your opponent but not before they can stab you. Then follows up with his whole speach on sheathing the sword. Oh how i miss those simple times.

[cannon]

This was back when foreshadowing was done with a sledgehammer in WOT.

 

Don't forget where he points out the foreshadowing with the "Lan's voice in his head." line. Good times.

[Machin Shin]

i got the impression that 'sheathing the sword' meant allowing your opponent to land a blow (fatal or not) to enable a counter strike of your own.

 

before galad fights valda in KoD he says something about sheathing the sword in order to gain the upper hand when facing a blademaster.

[CrazyMike]

The concept of Sheathing the Sword is not necesarily a particular Sword Fighting stance , but it does, in this context, mean a self sacrificing move or action which gains the ultimate advantage over your opponent...

 

The most dangerous opponent to face in any fight is one who is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice inorder to insure the enemy's destruction...

 

and that requires the least skill,,, as an example suicide bombers... Though killing innocent civilians and children is hardly the act of a Brave man...

[loki redfern]

it may have more of a bearing of the final battle than just the bit at the end of book 2. WoT was originally going to be a trilogy until RJ realised it would have to be much longer, so lans saying would have originally have been much closer to the final battle and also rand blood on the rocks at the fina battle- because rand sheathed the sword?

[olio]

The whole thing with Alivia helping Rand die IMO is... that she will kill him rand will ask her to do it... He said he most die to win the last battle as a thing the Aelfinn told him. But, not befor Nynaeve or Cadsuane learns how to bring people back from the dead from Semirhage.. since she knows how to... since that is the reason why she went to the shadow.. it will then clear LT from his head and bring sanity back to Rand.. or meld them in a way it did mat and his memories of all the generals in his previouse life... which goes to minds viewing of him and another man becoming one... and then he can fight the last battle with out sickness or LT is his head trying to take control..

[racha_giurgiu]

quote CrazyMike

The concept of Sheathing the Sword is not necesarily a particular Sword Fighting stance , but it does, in this context, mean a self sacrificing move or action which gains the ultimate advantage over your opponent...

 

The most dangerous opponent to face in any fight is one who is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice inorder to insure the enemy's destruction...

 

and that requires the least skill,,, as an example suicide bombers... Though killing innocent civilians and children is hardly the act of a Brave man...

 

If you truly believe that then you don't have any beliefs that you hold firmly to. Whether it be kamikazee pilots from Japan or Muslim martyrs that believe in what they are doing. You do not believe it takes a brave man to kiss his wife and children good-bye to die for a cause? It takes a man or woman very strong in heart to have that kind of faith in God, country or whatever cause s/he is willing to sacrifice life for.

 

Can of worms: American soldiers are willing to die for their country. They sign over their lives to the cause of the commanding military/government officials-it's not even a personal belief. many times these young people choose to young the military because of a lack of other post high school options available to them. NOT ALL BUT MANY. Innocents on either side are a casualty of war. The good guys (pick your flavor of "good") and bad guys (again, you must decide who is good or bad) both kill innocents. So any way you look at it, soldiers on all sides are sacrificing their lives when killing innocents.

 

Sucks doesn't it.

[CrazyMike]

I am not mistaken to believe that Muslim Radicals who think they are going to get a Harem of Whores to have sex with if they go kill civilians on a Bus or blow up a Skyscraper in New York are cowards and homosexuals who have no real faith in any GOD but only a leacherous desire to have a Harem of Whores,,, it is easy to see why they think that their Homosexual act of initiation into a Drug induced fantasy would lead them to murder innocent children and women and civilians,,, of course ,,, they are given a large dose of Opium and Smoke Hash Hish till they are tripping out , then a man dressed like a woman performs sex acts on them and they are deludeded into believing it is a woman and all they have to do is go out and kill children and women to get a whole Harem of women/men like that...

 

American soldiers do not aim their weapons at innocent people and indeed the American military has gone to great lengths even before and during World War 2, to prevent innocent civilians and children from being hurt,,, unlike MUSLIMS who deliberately aim their weapons at children and other innocent civilians...

[racha_giurgiu]

Religious beliefs are a very powerful thing. Just because you do not share them do not make them true to those other people.

 

Another point on "innocents." you also seem to fail to realize that there are not innocents in the jihad aginst the West. We are all infidels and thus the enemy. They do not see it as killing innocent people, but as killing active members of the enemy.

 

You have chosen to overlook that as the West sweeps their political hand over the world we are bound to make enemies by those who firmly believe that what we are doing is WRONG.

 

Americans may not intentionally aim guns at those people that we choose to believe are innocent, but it does not end the killing of people in any way.

 

Our current situation is when where a political party is fighting a religious group. Whereas the "firm beliefs" of the political side will change depending on who is in power, the religious side will hold those same beliefs. Because those beliefs are rooted so firmly there can be no victory for the West. Ugly, yes. However, as long as there are Muslims that believe as they do this war will be fought.

[Jellybelly]

American soldiers do not aim their weapons at innocent people

 

Of course they do. It has been up in the media countless times since that bloody farce down in Iraq started. American soldiers shooting families in their houses, shooting children on the streets. So on and so forth. There is no point in denying it, really, many soldiers are idiots, regardless of nationality, and it is no reason to believe American soldiers are not.

 

The rest of your post is really telling, as well. I did not sincerely believe people like you existed (well, maybe I did). Homophobic, Christian fundamentalist nutjob seems an appropriate label.

[Wert]

American soldiers do not aim their weapons at innocent people

 

Of course they do. It has been up in the media countless times since that bloody farce down in Iraq started. American soldiers shooting families in their houses' date=' shooting children on the streets. So on and so forth. There is no point in denying it, really, many soldiers are idiots, regardless of nationality, and it is no reason to believe American soldiers are not.

 

The rest of your post is really telling, as well. I did not sincerely believe people like you existed (well, maybe I did). Homophobic, Christian fundamentalist nutjob seems an appropriate label.[/quote']

 

Well, since you obviously know so much about soldiers and soldiering why don't you go fight the war by our side? The fact that you would be uninformed enough to think that 'many soldiers are idiots' makes me very upset. My grandpa served this country, my parents serve this country, my brother and I serve this country. Why don't YOU go serve this country? Maybe then you'd see how 'many soldiers' act.

 

Now, lets get back on topic here.

[olio]

A true patriot wart.. i serve the army my self. been over seas... and done my part as well... any people down grading the military have a lack of patriotism.. and to down grade the freedom fighters like you and myself... is just a great pitty... The media only comes out with the bad things soldiers do... they don't mention much on the things we do to help the nation... it is all a big political game... all types of media is a political game... from talk radio to the mass media

[racha_giurgiu]

To the soldiers:

Only you truly know what is going on over there. I will happily consent to that. I have heard both the good and bad from dear friends that are serving.

 

As for lack of patriotism: ABSOLUTELY. I believed in this country when I was a little girl and was not as aware as I am now. My husband is from a country where the West went over and changed the government so that his family still there can not get jobs and are barely able to scrape by. The country is collapsing. Just because something works for America does not mean it will work everywhere. I don't feel that it is necessary at all for us to brow-beat other nations into what America thinks is best for them-it may be the worse possible thing for them.

 

We need to focus at home before we tell other nations what is best for them. When unemployment is erradicated, when the homeless have shelter, when all of us have healthcare so that we too can be healthy, when there is food on the plate for everyone, when we can safely control our own borders, then perhaps we can be a role model for other countries. Then we can say "Look at what we have accomplished, this is what we want for you." Until that time, we have no right bossing other places around.

[Jellybelly]

Well, since you obviously know so much about soldiers and soldiering why don't you go fight the war by our side? The fact that you would be uninformed enough to think that 'many soldiers are idiots' makes me very upset. My grandpa served this country, my parents serve this country, my brother and I serve this country. Why don't YOU go serve this country? Maybe then you'd see how 'many soldiers' act.

How does making that statement make me uninformed? I can say with a hundred percent's certainty that many soldiers are idiots, the same way I can say that many [insert group here] are idiots. If your grandfather fought in WWII, I salute him. The situation then was entirely different than it is today. Never was it implied that all soldiers are idiots, nor even that most are, but signing up for duty does not make you exempt to criticism, as I see it. Tell me that the soldiers who tortured and humiliated the prisoners at Abu Graib are not idiots, or the ones who go amok and kill every Arab in the vicinity. It is not an act of heroism to execute non-combatants.

 

It is not non-patriotic to downgrade those of the military who commit such acts. Olio says that all the media does is part of a political game. How is that different from what the soldiers are doing down there? The war in Iraq is not a peace-keeping operation, it is an illegal war of aggression. What the troops are doing there is not defending America's soil and citizens, it is making the international security situation more hazardous by the day. The soldiers would be serving the Homeland better if they had stayed at home.

 

Lastly, racha_giurgiu: Amen!

[CrazyMike]

I am a Viet Nam era Veteran of the US Marine Corps ,,, I never saw any combat but I enlisted for the purpose of fighting for my country and doing my Patriotic duty ...

 

Of all the Nations on earth today the United States is the only Nation that puts Human Rights above National Rights ,,, while in trueth many of our noble ideals are subverted by money grubbing capitalist only an Idiot would believe that Americans are merely Politicaly motivated,,, politics has nothing to do with HONOR and RIGHTIOUSNESS,,, the same which motivate the majaroty of our American Soldiers ,,, and leads most of us old fogies to openly grieve for the murdered innocents that fell victim to a vain , egotistical Mass Murder named Sadam Hussien ,,, and the trueth is even so , we would not be involved in a HOLY CRUSADE against cowardly terrorist if they had not attacked us first in New York City and Washington DC and above the Skies in Pennsylvania ...

 

But all things considered,,, it is the winners of a war that write the History that will be remembered and America will win this war against the cowardly scum that strap on bombs and walk into crowds of INNOCENT people and blows them up, people who do not want to be involved in any war and certainly not in a Jihad fosted off on Ignorant teenagers as a Holy War by men who in trueth worship Satan by their actions and deeds...

 

I personaly advocate the use of Nuclear Weapons against IRAN,,, I do not want to send any of our Soldiers into IRAN, why, what for, we should just Nuke them and take an unforgiving attitude toward our enemys,,, if they want to have a Jihad against us , lets NUKE em and forget em, and that goes for Jordan and Syria as well...

[Jellybelly]

You talk about human rights, and then advocate the nuclear destruction of an entire nation? Yeah... Right. I will not even go into this argument with you, Mike, because the ideas you promulgate here are insane. Totally, utterly insane. Your ideas are frightening, and you serve as excellent evidence for my previous statements in this topic.

[Dark Justice]

I really had no idea it was possible to show this much lack of respect for a group of people. I had not a clue. Well. Crazy Mike. I would like to see the "world Police" go into a thing like that. It would be the last thing they did. They would no longer have allies, and face it, USA is nothing without its allies.

[CrazyMike]

ya know what,,, I remember when G.Bush Senior launched DESERT STORM to free the people of Kuwait from an evil devout MUSILIM extremist named Sadam Hussein ,,, Iraqi soldiers who raped and pillaged and indulged in child molestation of the children of Kuwait... There were some people who were in U.S. Army reserves who refused to go to Kuwait saying it was an UNJUST war,,, turns out they were just scared to go and put their life online for their country ,,, even tho they had been receiving lots of money and educationale assistance from the U.S. Army with the expressed understanding that they would stand up and fight whenever and wherever their country told them to,,, seems that what they realy wanted was a free ride on their educationale beifits and other benifits ,,, thats called FRAUD ...

 

who was it online here that said her husbands family had lost their jobs in Iraqi when America invaded ,,, boo hoo hoo ,,, they must be SADAM loyalist who happily stood by and enjoyed their good life while Sadam and their fellow country men massacered innocent men women and children because they were of a different Faith and/or political belief,,, somehow I fail to shed a tear... and you husband is probibly supporting terrorism by his muslim brothers so i won't shed a tear for him either...

 

and yeah you boneheads can get all riled up when I say we should Nuke Iran and lets add North Korea to the list also,,, but it is clear that all of these Muslim Satan worshipers want a chance to kill Americans and then call it a HOLY WAR,,, well I am all for killing them before they can kill us,, and since that is their announced intention I say NUKE em ,,, or at least NUKE their Research labs and nuclear developement programs and then destroy their infrastructure and reduce them to the technology of the year 500 AD,,, and if anyone try's to send them any humanitarian aid shoot them down or sink them or blow them up, even if it is the French or Germans, correction, especialy if it is the French or Germans ,,, seize their OIL FIELEDs take their oil and don't pay them a dime for it,,, don't leave any factories or power plants intact , destroy all roads and bridges,,, destroy all dams and irrigation ,,, and absolutely close their Borders by armed airborne drones which attack and destroy everything bigger than a rabbit which trys to cross into or out of Iran...

[Dark Justice]

I guess you already knew, bu Saddam was put as leader of Irak, because CIA would rather have a strong Irak than a strong Iran. Then, all of a sudden, amerika desides he is an evil guy. (ok. Im not saying hes a nice guy....) So who is to blame?

 

Osama & Al Qaida blows up WTC. How could he possibly have the intelligence to do such a thing? hmm.. maybe his CIA trainig?

 

Oh. And the reason Iran is now the strongest country in the middle east, is because America & Israel has pretty much destroyed the other ones.

 

& I saw earlier you blamed Iran for bloing up WTC? Why?

I dont get the connection.. Cause last time I checked, Al quida was not bound to a country, but has its main base in Afganistan, wich we (and yes, norway has soldiers there too, unfortunately..) are destoing beyond recovery at the moment..

[CrazyMike]

Dark Justice ,,, so wrong and so misinformed ,,, Sadam Murdered the legitimate president of Iraqi when he was a Hit man for that Presidents Political and Religious Rival then sadam Killed his Own boss and took over the Iraqi,,, CIA and the U.S. knew what was going on and made a decision not to interfer inorder to allow the Middle East to stabilize, at that time we were supporting the Shah of Iran...

 

and yes,,, Iran is involved in 9/11 they were supporting Al'Quada and it's terrorist efforts and also Iran has been sending "Volunteers" to join the Hezbolah in Lebanon ,,, another terrorist effort supported both with "Volunteers" and Weapons and Money and Inteligence ,,, another bunch of Homosexuals pretending to be men ,,, terrorist who bomb Busses and restruants in Isreal killing innocent civilians and children...

 

So at least some men in Norway believe they would rather put their lives on the line against evil Terrorist and Tyrants ,,, than just sit back and drink their coffee and chase girls and enjoy the good life while children and innocent civilians are murdered and tortured,,, at least some, but not you Dark Justice,,, yeah Dark Justice if there would have been a lot more men like you in the world before and during World war 2 Adolph Hitler would be your GOD now...

[racha_giurgiu]

who was it online here that said her husbands family had lost their jobs in Iraqi when America invaded ' date=',, boo hoo hoo ,,, they must be SADAM loyalist who happily stood by and enjoyed their good life while Sadam and their fellow country men massacered innocent men women and children because they were of a different Faith and/or political belief,,, somehow I fail to shed a tear... and you husband is probibly supporting terrorism by his muslim brothers so i won't shed a tear for him either...[/quote']

 

you foolish foolish man. I am so saddened that I have to count you among the soldiers that my step-father fought with in VietNam.

 

My husband is not from Iraq. i said my husband is from a country that American decided needed to change. My husband is not Muslim, Arab, Middle Eastern. He is from Europe. My husband and I are both against this fight.

 

As with reading the books we are here to discuss you only pick up on things you choose to see. You assumed my husband was from Iraq when he is not. You assume too much. Let us hope that your time on earth is limited. men like you are dangerous.