My Olver theory which keeps being turned down

[Lady Saravhem]

I completely believe that Olver is actually Gadial Caine(I know that is probably not spelled right). There are just too many simularities between the two of them. The fact that both are short and ugly, yet have a way with women. Olver growing up around the Band of The Red Hand will give him the background he would need to become a legendary warrior such Caine, and Bridget is drawn to him. People argue that the time frame is off because Olver is around ten years old, yet I still maintain that time has no bearing on people who live outside of time in The World of Dreams (such as Bridget and Caine). I have not mentioned this theory in a long while because it was so negatively recieved, yet perhaps by now others have come 'round to the idea. Tell me what you all think. I would like to know.

[Mad Season]

According to RJ, no.

 

Q: Is Olver Gaidal Cain?

RJ: No. I didn't really think that this would last as long as it has. The timing is wrong. He has another reason for being there besides being a red herring, though.

 

Q: He's too old.

RJ: Yes. Time in T'A'R and the real world run at different rates, but it never runs backwards. You may spend an hour in T'A'R, and a day has passed when you get back, or you may spend a day, and an hour has passed when you get back, but you'll never go in on Tuesday and come back on Monday.

 

Q: Is the difference in time constant?

RJ: No. It's fairly random. Sometimes fast, sometimes slow, sometimes the same as real time.

 

Q: It's different for different people, then?

RJ: Yes. Unless they're together in T'A'R. Then the same amount of time passes for them obviously.

[Zardi]

Here's a timeline for you:

 

--Gaidal Cain is reborn in TFoH, ch. 14

--Olver first appears, claims to be nine, but looks to be at least 6, in LoC, ch. 5

 

About 2-3 months pass in the "real world" between the time when Gaidal is reborn, and when we first meet Olver. Therefore, Gaidal's new body -- at the time we first met Olver -- would have been at most 3 months old.

 

It does NOT matter how much time has passed in TAR, because both Olver and Gaidal's new body reside in the real world. For Olver to be Gaidal, Gaidal's soul would have had to step back in time, which we know is not possible.

[Kaznen]

And before you get to the old "RJ might be pulling the wool over eyes here" keep in mind that if there was any chance of Olver being Cain we would have gotten a RAFO.

[Gandaal]

The issue is that given this is a fantasy novel Olver being Gaidal Cain is a logical possibility given the nature of fantasy series. Not everyone has access to RJ interviews on the web and to someone reading the series without access to outside information it would seem fairly obvious that Olver is Gaidal Cain even if it would seem slightly ridiculous.

 

The whole Olver being exactly like Gaidal Cain in every way but not actually being him is the biggest fault I find in the series. Elayne and Co chapters in latter books and Egwene's character driven chapters in the middle of the series (not to mention her attitude towards everything in general) might drive me insane but the Olver issues is a thing that didn't have to occur but he did it anyway for some unknown reason.

[Mystica]

Well, I also was convinced that Olver was Cain, Lady. So no need to feel bad about that lol.

 

But since RJ himself denied that, there's not much else I can do than accept I was wrong.

 

I hadn't seen that interview part, thanks Mad Season!

 

 

 

Eh... can someone explain to me what 'Being a red herring' means? (lol, sorry that's one I haven't come across yet)

[Bob T Dwarf]

A red herring is false information. A "clue" that points in the wrong direction. Something planted as a deliberate deception.

 

The dagger with the bees of Illian embossed on its pommel that was supposed to be left behind if it was necessary to kill Mat in order to get Rand to attack Sammael would be an example of a red herring.

[Mystica]

ah, gotcha', thanks bob!

 

*hands over a beer* ;)

[Luckers]

The dagger with the bees of Illian embossed on its pommel that was supposed to be left behind if it was necessary to kill Mat in order to get Rand to attack Sammael would be an example of a red herring.

 

Why... it WAS Sammael who ordered that. There were no false clues in it. It was bait for a trap, not a red herring.

 

I'm not sure but i believe it entymologically comes from hunting... the colour of the red herring looking alot like the colour of a stag... At the very least someone once told me as much, though i may be wrong. It was a false indication of something you had been looking for, or something that points in the wrong direction.

[Leopoled Boothe]

If RJ himself had not denied it then I would whole heartedly believe that Olver was Gaidal Caine reborn. I did believe it for a long time. Perhaps GC is actually Olver's ancestor and that accouts for the similarities. I know that GC lived thousands of years ago but those genes would still be swishing around in the gene pool somewhere. As to Birgitte being drawn to him, perhaps it is because he reminds her of GC. I mean he certainly reminds the rest of us of GC so I supose Birgitte would see the similarities as well.

[Bob T Dwarf]

The dagger is both a good and a bad example. Apologies for that.

 

It is a bad example in that, Sam, or the Gang of Four jointly, HAD ordered the hit.

 

It is a good example in that leaving the dagger behind is a deliberate ploy designed to lead Rand to draw the conclusion the plotters want him to draw. It's planted evidence that's designed to allow the Gang of Four to control the situation.

 

A more typical red herring would lead someone to draw a totally wrong conclusion.

[Zardi]

to someone reading the series without access to outside information it would seem fairly obvious that Olver is Gaidal Cain even if it would seem slightly ridiculous.

I know this theory is popular, but I don't understand why people say it's obvious. Olver and Gaidal have some similarities, but the timing is so far off that this theory never occurred to me when I was first reading the series. To me, it's obvious that they're not the same person. I'm not trying to attack anyone, this is just something I've been wondering about.

[SinisterDeath]

Who said Cain had to be 'born'? We've seen so many instances where people have had there 'souls' swapped out and replaced. *Forsaken duh*

One of the leading 'theories' was that oliver suffered a high ammount of trama due to his parents death. became emotionally dead. *catatonic* and when Briggete got torn out of the dream world, the wheel or whatever tried to compisnate and tried to spin Cain out into the nearest/emptiest vessel it could find. Hell for all we know cain and oliver 'merged' creating Colver.... Who knows.. Hell even if Cain was Oliver, cain is not olver because... Olver is still Olver, and Cain is no longer Cain. So it would just be more Aes Sedia Talk. RJ could be telling the truth and it could just be a redherring. Or his very words could be a red herring! Either way one thing is known. Olver offers something Very Important to the story line, we haven't seen it yet, but we might very easilly see it. And it will be important. He might not 'be' Cain, but for all we know thats what 'briggette' thinks, becaus she's chasing after every ugly man she can! :P

[Zardi]

There are a few problems with this. For one, what reason would there be for Olver's soul to leave his body and be replaced by Gaidal's? The DO has no reason to do it, and Olver has no Rand/Moridin-esque connection with anybody, so what mechanism would insert a new soul into a boy who already has one? We have no evidence that the Wheel can do this, or has any reason to.

 

when Briggete got torn out of the dream world, the wheel or whatever tried to compisnate and tried to spin Cain out into the nearest/emptiest vessel it could find.

Gaidal was spun out before Birgitte got torn out of T'A'R.

[Luckers]

And Gaidal was protected by the Precepts. Birgitte wasn't.

[Thorum]

Crazy idea that just sprung up in me: can't GC be one of Elayne's kids. Didn't she become pregnant about that time?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Only if Elayne drops her boy on his face to make him ugly enough for Birgitte. :D

[Zardi]

Thorum:

Elayne becomes pregnant in WH, 4 books after GC disappears from TAR. To quote myself:

Here's a timeline for you:

 

--Gaidal Cain is reborn in TFoH, ch. 14

--Olver first appears, claims to be nine, but looks to be at least 6, in LoC, ch. 5

[Thorum]

Okay. Than it's impossible