[Light Vs Shadow] - HEROES AND VILLIANS MAFIA

[bgrishinko]

BG i really don't want this to turn into a poo flinging contest between you and me. focusing on me is distracting away from too really good candidates, Tina and Leelou. you see how tina latched onto accusing me of skimming, tryign to stroke the fire and shift focus off of her.

 

Awww... what happened to Bull Dog Red? You are right though, we should be focused on the most likely candidates, I just think you are better one than Leelou is all. And yes, I kinda was putting the feelers out. Tina is the one I'm certain has to be scum right now though, so we'll save this discussion for tomorrow.

 

You make some good points. I just have a few things I want to say in rebuttal so you don't think I'm ignoring your responses. I don't agree with all you are saying and of course you wouldn't admit to it if I was correct on some points. To me it comes back to the Leelou causing the Ley kill issue, and how much you seem to be pushing it. This is the info I feel you were ignoring and sweeping under the rug. It seems pretty hard and fast as fact to me combined with Desp's findings, which you can agree are accurate.

 

Also, I'm not trying to defend myself in case Tina flips town, cause if by some random chance she is also a town RB, I'm doomed no matter what and we have a diabolical setup.

 

I've seen the Killer role once before in Ape's mutant/zombie game. One person started with the Kill officially until they died, then someone else became the killer until they died, etc. That's why I severely doubt Ley was the killer before Kae, otherwise we woulda been given the title. Our Mod might do things differently, but then I can't imagine why Kae would even have the Title/Role if it was a nightly rotation.

[Aiel Heart]

So the mafia killer role changes people? That's just annoying....

[Niniel]

Unofficial votecount

 

Tina - BG, Wombat

Leelou - Red

BG - Song, Pants, Tina

[bgrishinko]

@AH Yeah, but the plus side to the Killer role for town is exactly what we see here: We know what Kae was doing visiting Wombat Leyrann. Killing. Most games don't have a designated killer and then we wouldn't know what Kae was doing for sure or who caused Ley's death.

 

 

[Talya]

Red is correct, I wouldn't do anything like that, not for anyone.

 

REY has been found and is now back in the game as TURIN.

[Red2111]

Awww... what happened to Bull Dog Red?

 

i'm tiered of scum using it to get me lynched or as a distraction to allow their mates a chance to go back undercover

 

 

You are right though, we should be focused on the most likely candidates, I just think you are better one than Leelou is all. And yes, I kinda was putting the feelers out. Tina is the one I'm certain has to be scum right now though, so we'll save this discussion for tomorrow.

 

sounds good. i feel like out of those listed Tina is the best candidate as well. but i also want more info than just her lynch, with 3 scum down there can't be many more of them out there and theres still the SK

to worry about.

 

if Tina flips scum RB then Leelou will shoot the the top of my townie list. but if she flips town you and leelou will be my focus.

 

 

You make some good points.

 

as do you

 

 

I just have a few things I want to say in rebuttal so you don't think I'm ignoring your responses.

 

np, resopnd away. maybe we can clear the air a bit more

 

 

To me it comes back to the Leelou causing the Ley kill issue, and how much you seem to be pushing it. This is the info I feel you were ignoring and sweeping under the rug. It seems pretty hard and fast as fact to me combined with Desp's findings, which you can agree are accurate.

 

not sweeping it under the rug, examining it from a different angle, as if i was scum and what i would do in their shoes. to me, targetting Wombat with the great chance of the kill being deflected isn't a smart move. not to mention your wasting a NK on a perfectly good lynch candidate at the time. so either the scum has a BD or a RB on their team.

 

 

imo if the scum has a BD, they'd bus Womby with a team mate to frame him if a finder views him which speeds his lynch and outs another finder. given how much this would benefit the scum, the lack of a 2nd direct kill on N2, the good chance Womby stood of being lynched the following day, and my personal veiws of the BD role, this is why this option is the most logical to me.

 

 

now my back up assumption is that the scum has a RB (what you guys are pushing). if the scum wanted to NK womby, they'd have also targetted him with the RB. but imo, this doesn't make sense. up to that point, Womby had claimed Inventor and claimed a BPV. the RB would only prevent him from inventing, it wouldn't have affected the BPV's protection; so the kill still would have been a waste. not to mention, it's a wasteful move of the NK impo.

 

not to mention, BG, the 2nd assumption leads me to FoS you more than Tina. i beileve you when you say your a RBer, but i'm unsure of Tina's claim. afterall, you could be telling the truth about your targets and your role but still be scum.

 

 

as it stands, option 1 makes the most sense to me, which is why i'm backing it presently on thread.

[Red2111]

UNVOTE VOTE: TINA

 

to atleast get two good trains goign since leelou's is goign no where.

[Talya]

DAY 4 Vote

 

Tina (3): BG, Wombat, Red

 

BG (3): Song, Pants,Tina

 

Leelou (0): Red

 

 

With 13 left it takes 7 to lynch. You have until Thursday 9pm GMT or until a hammer. (50 hours from now)

 

 

[Red2111]

1. Des - Sam - Watcher

4. Tina - Superman - RB

6. Leelou - Bus Driver

9. Rey

10. Tiinks

11. Amadine

12. Wombat - Spiderman - Inventor Doc

13. Aiel Heart

14. Locke

16. Pants

17. Song - Tracker

19. Red

20. BG - Rogue - RB

 

Des's Findings

N1: blocked

N2: Wombat -> Blackhoof, Tina, Turin, Sakaea, BG, Leelou.

N3:

 

 

Song's Findings

N1: Kae -> Wombat

N2: Kae -> Wombat

N3: BG -> targeted no one

 

 

Leelou's Targets:

N1: Red/Nol Ley

N2: Wombat/Leyrann

N3: Meesh/Wombat

 

 

BG's Targets

N1: Des

N2: Wombat

N3: Leelou

 

 

Tina's Targets

N1: n/a

N2: Wombat

N3: BG

 

Wombats Protection

N1:

N2:

N3: Wombat

 

 

 

i put wombats info on there cause it's already revealed.

 

 

Wombat, can you tell us who you protected N2?

[Red2111]

that Ley in leelou's N1 should be Ley1.0 since he replaced Nol

[Aiel Heart]

Red is correct, I wouldn't do anything like that, not for anyone.

 

REY has been found and is now back in the game as TURIN.

 

Wait WHAT???

 

Confused.....

[hotpocket2006]

My N2 result was Ley, not wombat. Which is why ley died, and not wombat.

 

Also I have been hinting at my character/role since night 1, so I would've had to be "faking" it since then. I don't see why you don't believe me, I was essential in taking Saky down. I understand doubting me, but flat out making up scenarios where I am helping a scum mate is a little far Red.

[bgrishinko]

My N2 result was Ley, not wombat. Which is why ley died, and not wombat.

 

Also I have been hinting at my character/role since night 1, so I would've had to be "faking" it since then. I don't see why you don't believe me, I was essential in taking Saky down. I understand doubting me, but flat out making up scenarios where I am helping a scum mate is a little far Red.

 

There's always the possibility of you in a Gambit in taking down Kae. But really I think Kae kinda self destructed.

[hotpocket2006]

There's the possibility, sure. But anything is possible in mafia. I could make up 50 thousand possibilities in this game. There's such thing as being too paranoid and completely off your rocker. I have done nothing but be pro town in this game. I never tried to help saky out, ever. Why would I want to throw the "mafia killer" under the bus and get rid of a power role? I would've got rid of someone without a power. Red's whole argument against me is wifom bologna. Which I understand this post is a little bit wifomy, but look at my play. I believe it's been pretty clean and helpful overall to the town.

[WWWwombat]

not sweeping it under the rug, examining it from a different angle, as if i was scum and what i would do in their shoes. to me, targetting Wombat with the great chance of the kill being deflected isn't a smart move. not to mention your wasting a NK on a perfectly good lynch candidate at the time. so either the scum has a BD or a RB on their team.

 

 

imo if the scum has a BD, they'd bus Womby with a team mate to frame him if a finder views him which speeds his lynch and outs another finder. given how much this would benefit the scum, the lack of a 2nd direct kill on N2, the good chance Womby stood of being lynched the following day, and my personal veiws of the BD role, this is why this option is the most logical to me.

 

 

now my back up assumption is that the scum has a RB (what you guys are pushing). if the scum wanted to NK womby, they'd have also targetted him with the RB. but imo, this doesn't make sense. up to that point, Womby had claimed Inventor and claimed a BPV. the RB would only prevent him from inventing, it wouldn't have affected the BPV's protection; so the kill still would have been a waste. not to mention, it's a wasteful move of the NK impo.

 

not to mention, BG, the 2nd assumption leads me to FoS you more than Tina. i beileve you when you say your a RBer, but i'm unsure of Tina's claim. afterall, you could be telling the truth about your targets and your role but still be scum.

 

 

as it stands, option 1 makes the most sense to me, which is why i'm backing it presently on thread.

 

Lot of things wrong with this. Why would the scum assume there is a second finder? Also, if they targeted me N1 (which I think they did) I wouldn't still have a vest (assuming I had one in the first place that is).

[WWWwombat]

i put wombats info on there cause it's already revealed.

 

 

Wombat, can you tell us who you protected N2?

 

N1: Wombat

N2: Amadine

N3: Wombat

 

All of this had already been revealed.

[Turin Turambar]

Turin is dead, Long live Turin. I am back in the game as Rey since he was unavailable to continue.

 

Wombat stated that he self targeted N1 and targeted Ama N2. I need to reread from my previous incarnation's unfortunate demise to get caught back up in this game.

[WWWwombat]

Red is correct, I wouldn't do anything like that, not for anyone.

 

REY has been found and is now back in the game as TURIN.

 

Wait WHAT???

 

Confused.....

 

Rey has been replaced by Turin. And before anyone tries, I'm betting Turin isn't allowed to tell us anything about his previous role (like who he may have targeted).

[Turin Turambar]

Teach me to get a drink while typing.

[hotpocket2006]

not sweeping it under the rug, examining it from a different angle, as if i was scum and what i would do in their shoes. to me, targetting Wombat with the great chance of the kill being deflected isn't a smart move. not to mention your wasting a NK on a perfectly good lynch candidate at the time. so either the scum has a BD or a RB on their team.

 

 

imo if the scum has a BD, they'd bus Womby with a team mate to frame him if a finder views him which speeds his lynch and outs another finder. given how much this would benefit the scum, the lack of a 2nd direct kill on N2, the good chance Womby stood of being lynched the following day, and my personal veiws of the BD role, this is why this option is the most logical to me.

 

 

now my back up assumption is that the scum has a RB (what you guys are pushing). if the scum wanted to NK womby, they'd have also targetted him with the RB. but imo, this doesn't make sense. up to that point, Womby had claimed Inventor and claimed a BPV. the RB would only prevent him from inventing, it wouldn't have affected the BPV's protection; so the kill still would have been a waste. not to mention, it's a wasteful move of the NK impo.

 

not to mention, BG, the 2nd assumption leads me to FoS you more than Tina. i beileve you when you say your a RBer, but i'm unsure of Tina's claim. afterall, you could be telling the truth about your targets and your role but still be scum.

 

 

as it stands, option 1 makes the most sense to me, which is why i'm backing it presently on thread.

 

Lot of things wrong with this. Why would the scum assume there is a second finder? Also, if they targeted me N1 (which I think they did) I wouldn't still have a vest (assuming I had one in the first place that is).

 

Exactly. I got Saky targeting you. But Red doesn't believe that I am who I say I am. *pees on her foot* There that'll learn her.

[Talya]

Wombat, you are correct. Turin is not allowed to answer questions on his previous life. Besides I have wiped his mind clean...blimey is was filthy!!!

 

Oh and anyone who asks him questions about his previous incarnation will incur my wrath *gets tickling stick ready*

[Red2111]

1. Des - Sam - Watcher

4. Tina - Superman - RB

6. Leelou - Bus Driver

9. Rey

10. Tiinks

11. Amadine

12. Wombat - Spiderman - Inventor Doc

13. Aiel Heart

14. Locke

16. Pants

17. Song - Tracker

19. Red

20. BG - Rogue - RB

 

Des's Findings

N1: blocked

N2: Wombat -> Blackhoof, Tina, Turin, Sakaea, BG, Leelou.

N3:

 

 

Song's Findings

N1: Kae -> Wombat

N2: Ley

N3: BG -> targeted no one

 

 

Leelou's Targets:

N1: Red/Nol Ley

N2: Wombat/Leyrann

N3: Meesh/Wombat

 

 

BG's Targets

N1: Des

N2: Wombat

N3: Leelou

 

 

Tina's Targets

N1: n/a

N2: Wombat

N3: BG

 

Wombats Protection

N1: Wombat

N2: Amadine

N3: Wombat

 

 

 

 

 

My N2 result was Ley, not wombat. Which is why ley died, and not wombat.

 

what do you mean thats why ley died. i thought you were a tracker, so how does who you target have anything to do with who dies!

 

and i coulda sworn i saw you say something about Wombat on N2

 

 

 

Also I have been hinting at my character/role since night 1, so I would've had to be "faking" it since then. I don't see why you don't believe me, I was essential in taking Saky down. I understand doubting me, but flat out making up scenarios where I am helping a scum mate is a little far Red.

 

you breadcrumbing your reveal says nothing towards your innocence or guilt, for all i know you might be scum and you and your eam planned a reveal on the first day and you breadcrumbed it to make it seem legit.

 

and the scenario, (which was more directed to show my inherint distrust than fling accusations) is not soo far fetched. if a scum mate is goign down and a team mate sees a way to use that to their advantage, why woudln't they try and pull it off.

 

your over reaction to my flippant comment pings Song; it wasn't a true suspicion i was casting at you, yet you took it as one. did i touch too close to home?

 

 

 

I have done nothing but be pro town in this game. I never tried to help saky out, ever.

 

i aven't seen you do anythign overly "pro-town" until Kae had pretty much lynched herself by mixing up her claims. you chimed in after that was pointed out and the votes were piling in.

 

 

Why would I want to throw the "mafia killer" under the bus and get rid of a power role? I would've got rid of someone without a power.

 

never said Kae was thrown under the bus or that you did the throwing. Kae hung herself by not keeping her reveal straight. what i suggested is that its possable her scum mates saw she was goign down and might have tried to salvage something from it

 

 

Red's whole argument against me is wifom bologna. Which I understand this post is a little bit wifomy, but look at my play. I believe it's been pretty clean and helpful overall to the town.

 

and your over-reaction to my flippant suggestion is very intersting.

 

 

 

Lot of things wrong with this. Why would the scum assume there is a second finder? Also, if they targeted me N1 (which I think they did) I wouldn't still have a vest (assuming I had one in the first place that is).[/quote]

 

sorry i didn't see where yo listed them before they're added now.

 

 

underlined - in advanced games i always assume theres either a back up finder or other investigator type roles. i assume everyone else does as well

 

to the bold - they migh have assumed the RBer, Jailer, Doc or any number of other roles weres responsable for blocking the kill N1, not your vest. didn't Ley ask out right if you still had it? if i was scum, i would have errored on the side of caution, that you still had your BPV and weren't a sure kill; or that you were drawing healer support cause you revealed

[Niniel]

Red - it was not until Song told us about Sakaea that she had to start making up all those lies.

[Red2111]

1. Des - Sam - Watcher

4. Tina - Superman - RB

6. Leelou - Bus Driver

9. Rey

10. Tiinks

11. Amadine

12. Wombat - Spiderman - Inventor Doc

13. Aiel Heart

14. Locke

16. Pants

17. Song - Tracker

19. Red

20. BG - Rogue - RB

 

Des's Findings

N1: blocked

N2: Wombat -> Blackhoof, Tina, Turin, Sakaea, BG, Leelou.

N3:

 

 

Song's Findings

N1: Kae -> Wombat

N2: Kae ->Ley

N3: BG -> targeted no one

 

 

Leelou's Targets:

N1: Red/Nol Ley1.0

N2: Wombat/Leyrann

N3: Meesh/Wombat

 

 

BG's Targets

N1: Des

N2: Wombat

N3: Leelou

 

 

Tina's Targets

N1: n/a

N2: Wombat

N3: BG

 

Wombats Protection

N1: Wombat

N2: Amadine

N3: Wombat

 

 

 

 

 

My N2 result was Ley, not wombat. Which is why ley died, and not wombat.

 

what do you mean thats why ley died. i thought you were a tracker, so how does who you target have anything to do with who dies!

 

and i coulda sworn i saw you say something about Wombat on N2

 

 

 

^ n/m about the above, i see where i got things mixed up *shakes head* fixed it on the list now

[Red2111]

Tina thats not how i remember it.

 

from memory, i remember someoeen pointing out Kaes original claim didn't mesh with her explination for who she targetted and when she admitted to having a different role (i think claiming she had false claimed like Womby did) then Song sealed the deal with her tracker report; but by the time Song revealed Kae was already half way to the lynch.

 

 

i could be wrong though, my memory isn't the greatest and this happened over the long weekand so this wasnt the only game i had to catch up on come monday morning. not an excuse, just putting down my entire thoughts.