The Darkone

[mistergraviton]

I'm surprised no long discussions about the darkone and what he will be like. This is my first post but I have been following the books for years now. When I finished the last book. I was thinking ...the DARK ONE had better be something else! I mean when he breaks free 60 million trollocs had better explode out of the blight. If he can't kill 250 ashaman and aesedai with the twitch of an eyebrow, and if 2 million people a day don't just fall over dead for two weeks after he broke free I will be disappointed. 11 books of anticipating the DARKONE and in book 12 he had better be nasty. He can't just be evil...he has to take evil to another level. The book should be 3000 pages and 2000 of it should be about the dark one wreaking havoc, and showing no mercy. And RJ would you go into more detail about pillow friends and Aes Sedai in book 12? OOPS scratch that last part. It seems my first post might be my last lol.

[RobertAlexWillis]

The point of the whole series is, if the Dark One does break totally free, he could probably do everything you said, and there's no way the Light can stop him at that point. So, since its a story and we know the Light is going to win, we probably won't get to see him free and wreaking havoc on that scale.

 

RJ has, however, said we might get to see inside the Prison. I have a feeling (and its just a feeling) that Rand is going to have to pay old Shai'tan a visit.

 

If we do get to see the Dark One in some detail (through a POV for example), its my opinion that he will just be a control freak. RJ has hinted at that, and it fits his actions, too. He just wants total control of everything, and thats it.

[mistergraviton]

So he won't break free, because that would mean the Light would lose? I thought the point was the chosen one fighting the ultimate evil? It just seems like he should break free and rand should fight him. I've been waiting for the DARK ONE to break free so he can destroy stuff. Any character named the DARK ONE I'd guess would be a control freak. I was hoping that he would explode into the world and swallow 75 percent of the world in darkness and trollocs would run wild with dread lords channeling the true source. And the DARK ONE he doesn't just channel ...no he has to do more than channel. Balefire should come out of his eyes at will. He should be able to drag two thousand people into the world of dreams at one time and torture them and kill them simultaneously. He should be able make the ARYTH OCEAN boil! And when he laughs people should hear his laughter in their mind and go mad. Banging their head with a hammer to stop the laughter. But your saying that he won't even break free. That would be disappointing to say the least.

[MetalMonkeyMood]

If Rand wants to stand any chance of winning, the Dark One must not break free. He's far more powerful than anything Rand could throw at him (would he even be affected by balefire? I doubt it since he's actually outside the pattern, and balefire burns threads of the pattern), and would trounce the world and break the wheel as soon as he escapes. All the stuff that's going on now (ghosts walking around, bubbles of evil, etc.) are just a minor part of the DO's power, and none of the forces of light stand a chance against him completely loose.

 

The most we'll get is an "avatar" or a small image of him and his power, at this point in time most likely SH. That's Rand's battle I guess, fighting SH to prevent him from fully unleashing the DO.

[RobertAlexWillis]

That would be disappointing to say the least.

 

Prepare to be dissapointed. If he does break free, and the world isn't destroyed completely in about 3 seconds, I will be very surprised.

[algspkr]

If Rand wants to stand any chance of winning, the Dark One must not break free. He's far more powerful than anything Rand could throw at him (would he even be affected by balefire? I doubt it since he's actually outside the pattern, and balefire burns threads of the pattern), and would trounce the world and break the wheel as soon as he escapes. All the stuff that's going on now (ghosts walking around, bubbles of evil, etc.) are just a minor part of the DO's power, and none of the forces of light stand a chance against him completely loose.

 

The most we'll get is an "avatar" or a small image of him and his power, at this point in time most likely SH. That's Rand's battle I guess, fighting SH to prevent him from fully unleashing the DO.

I don't think Rand can fight SH. He can no longer use a sword, and he cannot channel around SH. I think we will see Fain, Mat, or Perrin fight him. It would be a good Gollum moment for Fain, killing SH as Rand is about to die. Mat's medallion may protect him from SH's power. And Perrin can overwhealm him with 10,000 wolves.

[bjclinton]

not to take away from the over-all theme of the post, but I will be interested in seeing who will end up fighting SH....I would be dissapointed if it were Mat or Perrin- compared to SH, they are way to ordinary and underpowered...I guess the Fain thing would be interesting, considering he can put a STOMPING on Mydrall as easily as swatting flies, but regardless of who and how, I hope its a great battle!

 

As far as the actual post, I have to agree w/ the general concencus that what you're describing isn't the Last Battle- you're describing the Dark One breaking free, and that will only happen if Rand Al'Thor fails as the Dragon Reborn. Since we are all assuming that he will not fail- that he will succeed in resealing the bore in the DO's prison, then you are not going to get to see the DO break free. And therefore, you are not going to see all the blood, carnage and nightmarish things that you're describing.

 

You'll get your trollocs, you'll get your large-scale destruction, but you won't see the total power of the DO sweep throughout the land. You might want to start preparing yourself now for something else to get excited over, otherwise you might be dissapointed in the last book :D

[Gentled Ben]

Mistergraviton, I think you accurately suspected, and Robert accurately described the DO's abilities, and with that in mind, did you really want to see Rand duel him with the OP? Rand has no chance, just as Asmo told him. Rand's role is to die, not out-channel the DO. When I first began reading the series, I thought that Rand would just become a super-powerful channeler and go to town on the DO at TG, but within a few books, that just stopped making sense for me. The DO is WAY too powerful. Rand is a lamb, a sacrifice, not a bunny-kickin', DO slayin' channeler. He'll likely appear at TG all messed up, like the Fisher piece in the sha'ra game that Moridin is so fond of. You know, blind, hobbled, and dressed in rags. He'll probably be more pitiful than terrifying, and the DO will have him for a snack, but like Aslan and the witch, that's all it will take. I think. Balefire me if I'm wrong. :)

[mistergraviton]

I always thought the last battle would be the Darkone and the dragon reborn fighting each other one on one with trollocs,Myrddraal and Dread Lords running loose. And at present I know he wouldn't stand a chance against the Darkone but he would learn to channel the true source somehow and that would be how he would drive the Darkone back into his prison. And if it wasn't the true source it would perhaps be something else from the age of legends. Or perhaps Lews Therin would instruct him on how he sealed the DO's prison last time. And through the books of Herid Fel(I think that's his name) that min reads there would be someway to make it whole again. I was just really waiting to read about what the DARKONE would do to the world. I wanted the DarkOne to break out with Balefire coming out of his eyes among other things.

[MetalMonkeyMood]

Mister graviton, true source = one power, the OP is drawn from the true source. If you meant the True Power, well that's drawn directly from the DO with his permission, and I would doubt that he would allow Rand to use his own power against him.

 

Sealing the prison using the same method as Lews is probably not what Rand is going to do, it almost looks like what he's going to do is destroy the seals so he can lock up the DO more securely somehow (remember what Herid says "Have to clear rubble before you can build").

 

Finally, if the DO breaks out completely, it's game over, finis, the light has lost and the wheel is broken. Rand simply can not fight the DO, the only being equivalent or superior in power to the DO is the creator, and I doubt we'll be seeing him in the books.

[gelrad]

But what was before the seals were made?

 

Didn't then the DO was free?

 

When the seals were made then 100 of the best channelrs were enough to confront him and his folowers, why won't it be possible this time with more channelers that can make huge chains.

 

Maybe using the maximal chain with angrels could bring all the power, when this power is equal to the creator...

[MetalMonkeyMood]

Before the seals were made, the Dark One was sealed outside of the pattern. In fact, his presence was not actually known during the age of legends, and it was only after Lanfear drilled through to his prison that his touch reached out to the world. Even then he wasn't free, but was only able to influence the world.

 

I don't think that even 100 of Lews Therin's best channelers would have been capable of challenging the DO and his most powerful chanellers head on. They launched a surprise attack and were lucky enough to trap the strongest dreadlords in the same prison they had designed for the DO, and even then the majority of them died and the DO tainted Saidin.

If they tried again using even greater strength, wouldn't Saidin just get tainted all over again, and do you really want to see insane channelers of Rand's strength in possession of the Choeden Kal? As for whether a circle of channelers of both sexes would have prevented the taint or merely spread it on both halves of the true source, that's still debatable.

[Luckers]

Dreadlords was a term coined in the Trolloc Wars... it didn't exist in the War of Power.

[MetalMonkeyMood]

Dreadlords was a term coined in the Trolloc Wars... it didn't exist in the War of Power.

 

Semantics dude, I just meant any evil channeler :P :D :D

[Thor]

You don't want to destroy the do anyways even if you could. Why do you think the creator just sealed do up instead of destroying him outright?

[gelrad]

My guess is that the DO is pure evil that the creator collected from the balance so it's creation will have more good then evil. So it can't destroy it...

[mistergraviton]

The DarkOne dosen't break free and all rand will do in the end is seal the hole in the DO's prison. What kind of last battle can you have if the Dark One doesn't touch the world? If the dark one doesn't break free. What will initiate the last battle, if its not the Dark One breaking free?

[Bob T Dwarf]

Seems to me like there are two possibilities.

 

1. Rand initiates an attack on SG so as to reseal the Bore.

 

2. The DO's surrogates initiate an attack on Rand (or the world in general ) in an effort to secure the remaining Cuendillar disks and break the DO free.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Rand initiates an attack on SG so as to reseal the Bore.

 

Thats the one I expect. Actually, I expect Rand to break the last seal(s) in order to start the process of remaking the Prison in its original state, not just to re-seal the Bore.

 

There is a big difference between the Dark One "touching" the world and the Dark One "breaking free". Even in the War of the Power, he never totally "broke free".

[dimmu666]

yep like Robert said, if the DO actually breaks free completely, the world is screwed over anyways because no one can actually mess with him at all- like the antithesis of the creator yeah?

I would like to point out that mistergraviton is totally right about putting more on aes sedai pillow friends in....omggg like seriously its LESBIANISM in another age! with hot hottt ladies that can also do magic...daimn! Just what would i do to see them on tape... :cry:

[mistergraviton]

exactly more about pillow friends who are Aes Sedai and can channel would be excellent. And interesting to say the least. I'm sure Aes Sedai have all sorts of different weaves to enhance the pillow friend relationship!

[mistergraviton]

exactly more about pillow friends who are Aes Sedai and can channel would be excellent. And interesting to say the least. I'm sure Aes Sedai have all sorts of different weaves to enhance the pillow friend relationship!

[Lews Therin Telamon]

Ive got a bad feeling that Tarmon Gaidon is going to disappoint me, the whole thing about Rand have to die in order to live, the fight against the Dark One, the one-on-one match-ups etc.

 

The build-up to it has been huge. It has the potential to be an excellent part of the story-in all honesty I think RJ should have called book twelve Tarmon Gaidon and make it last more or less all the whole damned book

[bjclinton]

aw man- i dont think i could sit through 2,000 pages of Tarmon Gaiden- no matter how much i'm looking forward to it! I think one hardcore chapter focused on RA and the DO will suffice- RJ won't dissapoint- i'm confident about that....

 

I think there are going to be 5 stages to TG:

 

1. the onset- how does it start and who initiates the LB. IMO, its RA breaking the last seal at a time and place of his choosing when he is ready.

 

2. the "backdrop battle"...for lack of a better word, the battle between the armies of good an evil. Trollocs and Mydrall pouring out of the blight to fall over mankind, etc etc etc

 

3. the key-matchups....i.e. who will fight SH, Fain, Taim, Mori, the surviving Forsaken, etc. I think these will be very exciting to watch.

 

4. Rand's battle w/ whatever he's got in store for the DO- as we've said in this thread and countless others, its not about him going toe to toe with the DO incarnate- its going to be fought on another level or its going to be about him recreating another prison for the DO, while taking some major lumps in the process- this'll be a hairy one

 

5. Rand's battle to save his own life, and more importantly, his soul. Soooo many people want his soul: the DO, Mori, Tami, Fain, the Forsaken......take a number! I think his personal struggle to maintain his sanity, retain his soul, and fight to live for his 3 wives and 2 children (probably either newly born or just about to be born) should make the end of this series VERY VERY interesting.

 

However, i've said this before and i'll say it again- (not to go too far off subject, but...) Rand Al'Thor will not be dead when you read the final pages of the last book in the Wheel of Time. He's the underdog that will find a way to come out on top. For those of you hoping for significant amounts of death and destruction in the end, I really think you're going to be dissapointed. There will be JUST enough to satisfy us as readers, without killing off any major players...

[Lews Therin Telamon]

Yea plus Rand has been givn a riddle of how to survive "To live you must die." Im looking forward to seeing how RJ brings this about.

 

But, when I heard that Mat would die and live again, and this turned out to be when Rahvin killed Mat but Rand balefired Rahvin, I was seriously dissappointed. Seriously. Think about it-if balefire makes it so that things the balefired person did recently hadnt happened, then technically Mat never got killed by Rahvin