Thom's knives

[redmid17]

I always figured he was balefired by someone who masked their ability to channel and inverted their weave. Failing that it might be Shaidar Haran, but that would be a really, really specific target, and Asmo was ID'ed as having died "the final death" along with Rahvin (aka balefired or not able to resurrect).

 

Right, but I believe it's been mentioned that balefire isn't the only thing that can take someone out of DO's hands for resurrection. TAR strikes me as just such a place, because it's two steps removed from the DO's touch. A body lost in TAR is a thread he can't touch.

 

I have to ask, because I can't recall for certain. There is never any point at which the DO manifests itself in Mat/Rand/Perrin's dreams, is there? That was all Ishamael's doing as Ba'alzamon?

 

AFAIK, the DO does not touch any of the R/M/P trio in their dreams. It was always Ishamael (burning eyes, killed rats, etc...). I'm pretty sure the only place that the DO can directly communicate with anyone is at Shayol Ghul.

[Mordaunt]

I'd say whitebridge is cuendillar, and the shadow that appeared to ripple across it was Rand's imagining in context with his trepidation about Aes Sedai. He was far too melodramatic in the first two books!

[Gabriel Kross]

It has to be something with Thom's knives, due to the quotes that have been posted.

 

 

Also off topic response to the Olver Taim comment, RJ confirmed both of those as untrue so yea keep dreaming. And Greandal killed Amo, I believe it's in the glossary section of the book (it's revealed somewhere as a guranteed fact) remember Shaidar Haran blames Graendal for 3 forsaken deaths later in ToM and she denies being at fault for Masena

[Kahsm]

It has to be something with Thom's knives, due to the quotes that have been posted.

 

 

Also off topic response to the Olver Taim comment, RJ confirmed both of those as untrue so yea keep dreaming. And Greandal killed Amo, I believe it's in the glossary section of the book (it's revealed somewhere as a guranteed fact) remember Shaidar Haran blames Graendal for 3 forsaken deaths later in ToM and she denies being at fault for Masena

 

Unless there's new info i'm unaware of, "Responsible for" =/= "killed"

 

As a matter of fact, we know for certain she didn't actually kill one of the 3 she's blamed for, so it's entirely possible she didn't personally kill two of them. That said, I believe she did. But it shouldn't be lumped together as "case closed" with Taimandred.

[Sloth]

I've always imagined White Bridge to be heart stone, purely by it's description, and the rippling shadow to be either the Fade or foreshadowing that the Fade is near.

[Suttree]

Unless there's new info i'm unaware of, "Responsible for" =/= "killed"

 

It has been clarified a number of times, this being one of them...

 

BS

This is apparently all of the information that is available from RJ himself about the actual method of Asmodean's murder. In Brandon's vision of the story, he imagines Graendal killed Asmodean (did the deed herself) with balefire, but apparently this is not in the notes. So its possible that it could have been done by another kind of weave and we are free to speculate on that.

[Gabriel Kross]

Unless there's new info i'm unaware of, "Responsible for" =/= "killed"

 

It has been clarified a number of times, this being one of them...

 

BS

This is apparently all of the information that is available from RJ himself about the actual method of Asmodean's murder. In Brandon's vision of the story, he imagines Graendal killed Asmodean (did the deed herself) with balefire, but apparently this is not in the notes. So its possible that it could have been done by another kind of weave and we are free to speculate on that.

 

Thanks I didn't have the quote but I had heard of it anywho back to the knives... are there any other facts that we haven't brought up about thom's knives?

[jemron]

Thom is the Creator in the flesh. It's as simple as that. :)

[Leyrann]

Thom is the Creator in the flesh. It's as simple as that. :)

 

No, that's Bela already.

[PeterRICK]

Hmmpf. Before RJ's "There's something special about Thom's knives" comment I'd put the flash down to some sort of firework trick. Thom would be the sort of worldly person who'd be able to get his hands on some small time illuminator stuff despite their strictness. Couple in his sleight of hand skills and he'd be able to create all manner of misdirection. Obviously as fireworks aren't something you'd be able to get hold of easily I can't imagine he'd have a vast supply. A one on one fight with a fade though and you'd probably be tempted to dip into your stash.

 

I'd never entertained the idea he could channel so this seemed the most logical explanation to me, especially when he speaks to Aludra and clearly knows the value of her gift to Mat.

 

Meh...moot point now. I'd liked my theory whilst it lasted!

[Goldstar]

Thom is the Creator in the flesh. It's as simple as that. :)

 

No, that's Bela already.

Maybe the Creator split itself into two personalities. One to help, the other to watch.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Thom is the Creator in the flesh. It's as simple as that. :)

 

No, that's Bela already.

Maybe the Creator split itself into two personalities. One to help, the other to watch.

 

Honestly, Jordan had either forgotten what he wrote, got mixed up in his own head, or hadn't figured it out himself, yet.

 

He's been all over the place about that blue flash. It only happens when Thakandar blades and power-wrought blades meet. Thom's best knives are NOT power wrought. Thoms best knives are very special indeed. The flash happened before Thom got to the Fade.

 

There's no real consistency to those answers. Either we will never find out in the last book, or Harriet will explain it away with some extraordinary hand-waving in the encyclopedia.

[FarShainMael]

“RUN!” Thom sprang into motion, too, with a long, wordless roar. Not after them, but toward the Myrddraal. His hands flourished as if he were performing at his best, and daggers appeared. Rand stopped, but Mat pulled him along.

 

The Fade was just as startled. Its leisurely pace faltered in mid-stride. Its hand swept toward the hilt of the black sword hanging at its waist, but the gleeman’s long legs covered the distance quickly. Thom crashed into the Myrddraal before the black blade was half drawn, and both went down in a thrashing heap. The few people still in the square fled.

 

“RUN!” The air in the square flashed an eye-searing blue, and Thom began to scream, but even in the middle of the scream he managed a word. “RUN!”

 

Thom pulls daggers.

Thom collides with the Myrddraal as it draws its sword.

The blue flash happens.

[Eht Slat Meit]

Thom is the Creator in the flesh. It's as simple as that. :)

 

No, that's Bela already.

Maybe the Creator split itself into two personalities. One to help, the other to watch.

 

Honestly, Jordan had either forgotten what he wrote, got mixed up in his own head, or hadn't figured it out himself, yet.

 

He's been all over the place about that blue flash. It only happens when Thakandar blades and power-wrought blades meet. Thom's best knives are NOT power wrought. Thoms best knives are very special indeed. The flash happened before Thom got to the Fade.

 

There's no real consistency to those answers. Either we will never find out in the last book, or Harriet will explain it away with some extraordinary hand-waving in the encyclopedia.

 

You're missing an important response from RJ, as I see it. That's not just power-wrought blades, but power-wrought metal.

RJ: The reaction is specific. The Fade's sword striking Power-wrought metal.

 

As far as I know, the Whitebridge is the only other power-wrought metal in the -immediate -vicinity, hence my belief that it is the explanation for the flashes.

[Din]

“RUN!” Thom sprang into motion, too, with a long, wordless roar. Not after them, but toward the Myrddraal. His hands flourished as if he were performing at his best, and daggers appeared. Rand stopped, but Mat pulled him along.

 

The Fade was just as startled. Its leisurely pace faltered in mid-stride. Its hand swept toward the hilt of the black sword hanging at its waist, but the gleeman’s long legs covered the distance quickly. Thom crashed into the Myrddraal before the black blade was half drawn, and both went down in a thrashing heap. The few people still in the square fled.

 

“RUN!” The air in the square flashed an eye-searing blue, and Thom began to scream, but even in the middle of the scream he managed a word. “RUN!”

 

Thom pulls daggers.

Thom collides with the Myrddraal as it draws its sword.

The blue flash happens.

What interests me is whether Rand was still observing Thom and the Myrdraal as of the third paragraph or whether at that point he was running away and saw the blue flash reflected off buildings and such.

If Rand was watching the fight at the time of the blue flash then it looks as though RJ has made a mistake at some point. If Rand was not observing the fight then the most reasonable conclusion is that either another power-wrought blade was present or another thakan'dar blade was present. Less likely is the possibility that multiple blades were present in some combination.

It should be noted that at the time of the encounter, Thom and the boys were just emerging from an alleyway on the edge of the square. This means that the whitebridge itself was too far away to strike with a dropped or wildly swung weapon.

[FarShainMael]

Where the White Bridge came down in the center of the town was a big square, paved with stones worn by generations of feet and wagon wheels. Inns surrounded the square, and shops, and tall, red brick houses with signs out front bearing the same names Rand had seen on the carriages at the dock. It was into one of those inns, seemingly chosen at random, that Thom ducked. The sign over the door, swinging in the wind, had a striding man with a bundle on his back on one side and the same man with his head on a pillow on the other, and proclaimed The Wayfarers’ Rest.

 

So the square seems to surround the foot of the Bridge. The inn is nearby:

 

"I expect a lot of strangers passing through stop here. Your sign caught my eye from the foot of the White Bridge.”

 

The group talks inside this inn for a while, and they hear there's a about:

 

“All in black he is. Keeps the hood of his cloak pulled up so you can’t see his face, but you can feel him looking at you, feel it like an icicle shoved into your spine. He . . . he spoke to me.” He flinched and stopped to chew at his lip before going on. “Sounded like a snake crawling through dead leaves. Fair turned my stomach to ice. Every time as he comes back, he asks the same questions. Same questions the crazy man asked. Nobody ever sees him coming—he’s just there all of a sudden, day or night, freezing you where you stand. People are starting to look over their shoulders. Worst of it is, the gatetenders claim as he’s never passed through any of the gates, coming or going.”

 

Rand worked at keeping his face blank; he clenched his jaw until his teeth ached. Mat scowled, and Thom studied his wine. The word none of them wanted to say hung in the air between them. Myrddraal.

 

And Trollocs..

“I’ve been in the Borderlands. I’ve seen Trollocs, and these were Trollocs as sure as I’m sitting here. Those three claimed the Trollocs were chasing them, but I know better. That’s why I wouldn’t stay on the Spray. I’ve had my suspicions about Bayle Domon for some time, but those three are Darkfriends for sure. I tell you . . . ” Laughter and coarse jokes drowned out the rest of what Gelb had to say.

 

How long, Rand wondered, before the innkeeper heard a description of “those three”? If he had not already. If he did not just leap to the three strangers he had already seen. The only door from their half of the common room would take them right past Gelb’s table.

 

So they decide to go out through an alleyway:

 

The windows on either side of the fireplace on their side of the wall looked out into an alleyway. Thom studied one of the windows carefully before drawing it up just enough for them to squeeze through. It barely made a sound, nothing that could have been heard three feet away over the laughing argument on the other side of the low wall.

 

Once in the alley, Mat started for the street right away, but Thom caught his arm. “Not so fast,” the gleeman told him. “Not till we know what we’re doing.” Thom lowered the window again as much as he could from outside, and turned to study the alley.

 

..Wait here.” Still avoiding their eyes, he hurried to the mouth of the alley, slowing before he reached it. After one quick look around, he strolled casually into the street and out of sight.

 

..“Let’s go. We’ve wasted too much time already.”

 

Rand agreed fervently, but even so he hesitated before stepping out of the alley into the square. None of the sparse scattering of people gave them a second look—most did not look at them at all—but his shoulders knotted, waiting for the cry of Darkfriend that could turn ordinary people into a mob bent on murder. He ran his eyes across the open area, over people moving about on their daily business, and when he brought them back a Myrddraal was halfway across the square.

 

The action could have happened near to the foot of the Bridge.

[Din]

I really don't think the books support your conclusion. A number of paragraphs indicate that the square is very large and the books outright state that the Myrdraal was at least three-quarters of the way across the square by the time Thom engaged it. No one was anywhere near the bridge itself.

[FarShainMael]

We don't know where it was in relation to the Bridge, i.e. where exactly the Bridge enters the square. The inn caught Thom's eye from the foot of the Bridge; it must be quite close by.

[Din]

We don't know where it was in relation to the Bridge, i.e. where exactly the Bridge enters the square. The inn caught Thom's eye from the foot of the Bridge; it must be quite close by.

If I remember rightly the book describes the foot of the bridge being at the center of the square. Your last sentence seems to assume Thom has very poor eyesight which I really don't think is the case.

[FarShainMael]

We don't know where it was in relation to the Bridge, i.e. where exactly the Bridge enters the square. The inn caught Thom's eye from the foot of the Bridge; it must be quite close by.

If I remember rightly the book describes the foot of the bridge being at the center of the square. Your last sentence seems to assume Thom has very poor eyesight which I really don't think is the case.

 

Refer to my earlier post; better still, the book itself:

 

"Where the White Bridge came down in the center of the town was a big square"

 

It's in the centre of the town, not the centre of the square.

 

Thom said: "Your sign caught my eye from the foot of the White Bridge."

 

That's what he said, not me!

[Din]

Ah, you're right in that it says the center of town rather than the center of the square but I fear you misunderstood my comment concerning Thom entirely.

[FarShainMael]

Ah, you're right in that it says the center of town rather than the center of the square but I fear you misunderstood my comment concerning Thom entirely.

 

Then please, feel free to explain (unless we're boring everyone.. )

[Din]

I mean that Thom has sharp eyes and that in order for something to catch them it need not be nearby.

In fact, that line suggests to me that the inn is likely to be on the opposite side of the square from the bridge.

[Ananta]

I mean that Thom has sharp eyes and that in order for something to catch them it need not be nearby.

In fact, that line suggests to me that the inn is likely to be on the opposite side of the square from the bridge.

 

To me the line just suggests that Thom was flattering the innkeeper.

[Din]

To me the line just suggests that Thom was flattering the innkeeper.

That's entirely possible :)