Future of the Seanchan

[Andhaira]

What will become of them? Will they remain in the territories they have conquered, or will the Westlands (and maybe the Aiel) combine to throw them out back to where they came from? I really can't see the Seanchan winning if this happens, as the Westlands will have both Aes Sedai as well as Asha'man. The Seanchan will only have damane.

 

Or will there be a compromise? The Seanchan agree not to bind channelers anymore, and send them to the white/black tower when they are found? This could result in the channeling organizations leaving them alone at least.

[Xcorpyo001]

Brandon Sanderson saw the Seachan winning, in some controlled condition.

And if I have to chose between your opinion and his, I'll go for his view on the matter.

If they decide to not train damane anymore, they can train them differently, but in the Empire.

Why give your best weapon to the enemy?

And they can use them as soldiers, men and women.

[Dai Aldazar]

From Aviendha's viewing of her families futur I got the following impressions:

 

1. If the Aiel hold their honer and do not return to the way of the leaf the Seanchan will eventually conquer all of Randland and utterly destory the Aiel.

 

2. If the Aiel do swallow their pride and go back to the way of the leaf then the political lines will hold where they are and the Dragon's peace will reign for a lot longer.

 

 

 

I really do not like these impressions because I really like the Aiel and I think it is too soon for the Aiel to be forced back into that role. However it is unlikely to be a plot thread that is wrapped up for us.

 

 

 

Personally I feel that with a concerted effort the Aiel (en mass) could mop the Seanchan up like a spilled drink.

[Mr Hindley]

...the Westlands will have both Aes Sedai as well as Asha'man. The Seanchan will only have damane.

 

There's an interesting point here. Even if the Seanchan - voluntarily or otherwise - up sticks and go home, what are they going to do about male channelers? Do the Seanchan even know that saidin is clean now? (Who would have told them?) If they realise they don't have to kill male channelers, what will they do with them? I presume the a'dam only works on women?

Of course, if the Seanchan learn to stop worrying and love the channeling, which is one possibility, then it's less of an issue.

[Xcorpyo001]

From Aviendha's viewing of her families futur I got the following impressions:

 

1. If the Aiel hold their honer and do not return to the way of the leaf the Seanchan will eventually conquer all of Randland and utterly destory the Aiel.

 

2. If the Aiel do swallow their pride and go back to the way of the leaf then the political lines will hold where they are and the Dragon's peace will reign for a lot longer.

 

 

 

I really do not like these impressions because I really like the Aiel and I think it is too soon for the Aiel to be forced back into that role. However it is unlikely to be a plot thread that is wrapped up for us.

 

 

 

Personally I feel that with a concerted effort the Aiel (en mass) could mop the Seanchan up like a spilled drink.

 

 

There's no peace that will last forever. Sooner or later, someone will break it.

If Rand can make them keep the peace(marry Avi and became Aiel), or force Fortuona to release the WO, they'll have no problem with them. And they'll be forced by ji'e'toh to keep the peace.

If the follow the Way of the Leaf and the war starts anyway, and it will, they will be conquered anyway, because they'll be the perfect da'covale. The Aiel will cease to exist as a people, and be integrated as no more than slaves in the Seachan Empire.

 

And I like the Aiel as they are now. Just saying.

[Pinzarn]

Don't forget that Fortuna has bascially abandoned the Seanchan lands to set up the Empire in Randland. Also, not everyone has an issue with the Seanchan rule.

 

I see most of it depending on the reading of the Prophocies. If Fortuna (via Mat) comes around to the throne kneels to Rand, then I would consider the Randland Seanchan as another country based in the lands that they hold.

[damandred]

According to avi's vison the Aiel will fight the seanchan to a stalemate until avi's grandaughter tricks the Andoran Queen in to joining the war. The result being the seanchan who had held to the dragon peace(whatever that was) now can attack the rest of randland scupping up damane out of every land along the way thus becoming more powerfull and eventully wiping out the Aiel, toppling the WT, forcing the BT to fight some sort of guerrilla war, conquoring everyone else and gaining world wide empire. I think we can safely assume this won't happen that way now we, Avi/the Aiel have been forwarned. But the biggest reason I think it won't happen is because its a load of bollocks!! What a dreadfull way to end the WoT series seeing all the lands we've grown to love and our fav charactors have fought for over the years fall under the seanchan sway. Another thing were are all the charactors in the chapter court of the sun,in ToM, were is elayne, Avi, all the wise ones, there's no mention of Logain, egwene,perrin,mat anyone only the Aiel clan chief Bruan. Its only ment to be 17 yesrs after the last battle after all. The chapter also implys rand will bend knee to the seanchan empress, which shouldn't happen. Its only my own opinion but that chapter almost spoilt the ToM book for me and cast a shadow on the whole series (which ill always love). I say in another thread that that chapter was either ment to throw us or was badly thought out. Maybe iv gone to far and will get abuse for this post but there it is and its only my opinion.

[SuperFade]

I find Aviendha's vision difficult to believe. The Seanchan lack Circles, which could easily be used by Randland channelers to devastating effect. In the event of an all-out war with Egwene as Amyrlin, I don't see the Oath against killing lasting very long, particularly with her hatred for the Seanchan. The idea that every channeler captured is one more damane is also flawed since it takes time to train them, so it wouldn't necessarily instantly increase their forces.

 

I think the vision was more metaphorical and allegorical, showing what would happen if the Aiel remain as they are now.

[damandred]

I find Aviendha's vision difficult to believe. The Seanchan lack Circles, which could easily be used by Randland channelers to devastating effect. In the event of an all-out war with Egwene as Amyrlin, I don't see the Oath against killing lasting very long, particularly with her hatred for the Seanchan. The idea that every channeler captured is one more damane is also flawed since it takes time to train them, so it wouldn't necessarily instantly increase their forces.

 

I think the vision was more metaphorical and allegorical, showing what would happen if the Aiel remain as they are now.

But that means, by your own reasoning that the seanchan WOULD of beat the WT and everyone else. The way I read the end of that chapter is Avi is certain that the events of her vison would come to pass. "This was not like events she had seen when passing into the rings during her first visit to rhuidean. Those had been possibilities. This days visions seemed more real. She felt almost certain that what she had experienced was not simply one of many possibilities. What she had seen WOULD occur. I agree with you that it seemed unlikely the seachan had that power but it seems that's how it will go down if things run there present course (and if rand wins of course). Its the sheer illogic of it that is one of my many gripes with that chapter. That being said, as I say above I don't think it will happen that way, added to her convo with Nakomi its seems clear that Avi will put the Aiel on a differant path.

[Elan Tedronai]

aviendha's vision is just a red herring really. there is no way in hell the seanchan control the lands beyond seandar. they will have to deal with the combined forces of aes sedai and ashaman. not happening

[damandred]

Agree about the red herring. But I think its pretty clear that if events stay the same the seanchan COULD and WOULD defeat the WT and BT. I don't think its realistic myself but BS has written it in as not only possible but inevitable all things remaining the same.

[MasterAblar]

Agree about the red herring. But I think its pretty clear that if events stay the same the seanchan COULD and WOULD defeat the WT and BT. I don't think its realistic myself but BS has written it in as not only possible but inevitable all things remaining the same.

 

I think it could happen if the various other forces in Randland (all the nations, and the Aiel), fight the Seanchan seperatly. When faced with a more numerous foe, you split them up and defeat them individually. If however, all of Randland, united, including the BT and WT, come at the Seanchan all at once, I have a really hard time seeing the Seanchan come out as the victors.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Master Ablar

[damandred]

Sure divide and conquer and all that. Will it happen? No.

[MasterAblar]

Sure divide and conquer and all that. Will it happen? No.

 

It depends on the feeling of unity left behind after the Last Battle. And the Seanchan's part in it. And then there would have to be a reason for the war to begin. It obviously could happen since it happened in the vision, but then there were a lot of...issues, with that vision. Had the Seanchan invaded at any time other than when the DR was present in Randland, I'm positive that they could have swept over Randland. The difference will be how Rand leaves things after the Last Battle.

[damandred]

I think there will be a shift in seanchan atitude towards channeling with revelations about sul'dam. Otherwise what is the point of Bethamin and Seta's part in the story after it was found out the collar worked on them.

[Rose]

Wasn't Avi's vision while Rand was still in dark mode? If yes, then everything might already be different by now. Maybe if she went back into the rings, she would see a completely different future. Also, maybe the visions felt real to her because they were meant to, because of the nature of the ter'angreal. Maybe it is meant to make the channeller believe what she sees, even though it's only a possible future. Anyway, I don't know we will be told what happens to the Seachan after TG. Maybe what we will get will be something that will hint towards a possible positive resolution - like a Tuon POV where she realizes that collaring women is maybe not a good idea after all, or an instance where Aes Sedai save Seanchan lives and the Seanchan feel indebted, or a moment when they come to realize that maybe they don't really have a right - or need to - claim all these lands as theirs after all.

[damandred]

I don't see what Rands state of mind has anything to do with Avi's vision. In that vision he had apparently fought the last battle and won. I don't think that would of happened if Rand had remained as he was. Most likely he would of destroyed everything himself.

[MasterAblar]

I think there will be a shift in seanchan atitude towards channeling with revelations about sul'dam. Otherwise what is the point of Bethamin and Seta's part in the story after it was found out the collar worked on them.

 

Hopefully there will be, but Tuon is already aware of this and has obviously igoned with the pathetic excuse of not having chosen to channel (because sparkers somehow choose to channel apparently).

 

Wasn't Avi's vision while Rand was still in dark mode? If yes, then everything might already be different by now. Maybe if she went back into the rings, she would see a completely different future. Also, maybe the visions felt real to her because they were meant to, because of the nature of the ter'angreal. Maybe it is meant to make the channeller believe what she sees, even though it's only a possible future. Anyway, I don't know we will be told what happens to the Seachan after TG. Maybe what we will get will be something that will hint towards a possible positive resolution - like a Tuon POV where she realizes that collaring women is maybe not a good idea after all, or an instance where Aes Sedai save Seanchan lives and the Seanchan feel indebted, or a moment when they come to realize that maybe they don't really have a right - or need to - claim all these lands as theirs after all.

 

That's one of the theories brought up as to why the vision was so dark.

[damandred]

I think there will be a shift in seanchan atitude towards channeling with revelations about sul'dam. Otherwise what is the point of Bethamin and Seta's part in the story after it was found out the collar worked on them.

 

Hopefully there will be, but Tuon is already aware of this and has obviously igoned with the pathetic excuse of not having chosen to channel (because sparkers somehow choose to channel apparently).

Maybe there atitude change will some how be connected with the WT's own shift in atitude with the realization that they no longer rule the world. Maybe the AS will some how go back to a old style of truly being servants of all like in the AoL.

Wasn't Avi's vision while Rand was still in dark mode? If yes, then everything might already be different by now. Maybe if she went back into the rings, she would see a completely different future. Also, maybe the visions felt real to her because they were meant to, because of the nature of the ter'angreal. Maybe it is meant to make the channeller believe what she sees, even though it's only a possible future. Anyway, I don't know we will be told what happens to the Seachan after TG. Maybe what we will get will be something that will hint towards a possible positive resolution - like a Tuon POV where she realizes that collaring women is maybe not a good idea after all, or an instance where Aes Sedai save Seanchan lives and the Seanchan feel indebted, or a moment when they come to realize that maybe they don't really have a right - or need to - claim all these lands as theirs after all.

 

That's one of the theories brought up as to why the vision was so dark.

I don't understand what you mean. In that world rand had fullfilled his destiny. Are you suggesting that because he was dark rand at that moment (time of the vision) all foretellings/visions of the future at that point would be dark.

[Rose]

Well, yes, because even if he did win Tarmon Gaidon, if it happened as he was dark, the future might be very bleak. Now that he is Super-Wise-Goldlike-Rand, one would assume that he might make better choices that would secure a better future. Unite the nations through respect and understanding rather than fear. Bring peace in a different way than by simply imposing it upon them.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Rose

[Elan Tedronai]

there is no dark vision.

 

what's going to happen is this

 

rand wins tarmon gaidon. in the process he loses his ability to channel or something cripples him for good. he retires with min and vanishes from the scene in annoymity. logain assumes leadership of the ashaman

 

The majority of the aiel get destroyed by the maurading trollocs leaving a few token numbers. they will go back to their old ways.

 

the seanchan will in the midst of a power struggle and their invasion goals will be hit back by the presence of large number of armies opposed to their slavery customs

Edited September 29, 2011 by Elan Tedronai

[damandred]

That's assuming he could win the last battle when he was dark. In VoG he was on the verge of destroying everything, I think its safe to say he would have if he had not seen the light, so to speak.

[damandred]

That's assuming he could win the last battle when he was dark. In VoG he was on the verge of destroying everything, I think its safe to say he would have if he had not seen the light.

[Elan Tedronai]

i don't see your point.

 

what happened in VOG is irrelvant at this point. he will win the last battle. It's going to be predictable. The only question now is how will the prison be fixed back to it's pre war of power state

[damandred]

Toyed with the idea that Rand might live myself. Don't think so though I recon he will die giving himself to the land his essance to strenthen the pattern were the DO has made it weak. I think his death will heal the blight and SG will be normal like any other part of the world. The Aiel (what's left) will take up again the way of the leaf. The nations will keep the peace out of respect for the dragon. The seachan will keep there lands in randland but will scrap damane when they see the channellers unite in trying to heal the world after the chaos caused by TG. And so another age will begin.