The character in myth and legend that Rand becomes.

[jmniles]

So it seems that the WoT world is just a past (or future) version of our world,and that all the main characters are Legends in our world. So who is Rand? His names doesn't draw any immediate paralles for me, like Perrin, and he doesn't strongly resemble anyone other than maybe Tyr. Any thoughts?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Al'thor. arthur.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

dragon. pendragon.

[jmniles]

Thanks for that. It is a bit obvious.

I don't know why I didn't see it.

Sword in the stone and all that.

[Agitel]

Rand was heavily modeled on the Norse god Tyr, with many King Arthur inspirations as well. Mat was modeled on Odin. Perrin on Thor. They fit in with any number of pagan gods as well. Slavic mythology has a "Perun" as well, and if you read up on him you'll see some obvious parallels with Perrin.

[Terez]

Arthur is also Hawkwing. Rand is also Jesus. Etc.

[FarShainMael]

RJ didn't seem to do straight copies, but spread things around a bit. Artur Paendrag is a name closer to Arthur Pendragon, yet he never (AFAWK) drew Callandor, and he was a warlord, which Rand is not.

 

The current Randland warlord is Mat, who the 'finns greeted as 'son of battles'. Arthur was known as 'duke of battles', so there's another part-parallel.

[Terez]

The more interesting question IMO is, who is Mordred? There are several Mordred parallels:

 

1. Moridin

2. Mordeth/Fain

3. Demandred

4. Moiraine

5. Gawyn

 

Those are the most likely to actually have a hand in Rand's death. Galad and Elayne are weaker for various reasons. Moiraine is also a Morgan le Fay parallel (that's the obvious one), and oddly enough that's part of what makes her a strong Mordred candidate. Gawyn is more subtle on the name factor, but he sort of fits the relational aspect better. Galad would be even better, but RJ said that Galad and Rand aren't going to have a swordfight, which diminishes Galad's chances quite a bit.

 

By the logic, all of these character's stories got mixed up and became an amalgam called Mordred.

[FarShainMael]

I'm still rooting for Olver to be a Mordred-parallel with Mat..

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/59546-caemlyn-battle/

[jmniles]

Rand was heavily modeled on the Norse god Tyr, with many King Arthur inspirations as well. Mat was modeled on Odin. Perrin on Thor. They fit in with any number of pagan gods as well. Slavic mythology has a "Perun" as well, and if you read up on him you'll see some obvious parallels with Perrin.

 

I have looked at that, but to me it seemed a bit of a strecth. Other than losing a hand, I didn't see many parallels. Mat and Perrin though, I agree completely. I'd like to hear any more Rand/Tyr parrallels if you have them.

[Agitel]

Rand was heavily modeled on the Norse god Tyr, with many King Arthur inspirations as well. Mat was modeled on Odin. Perrin on Thor. They fit in with any number of pagan gods as well. Slavic mythology has a "Perun" as well, and if you read up on him you'll see some obvious parallels with Perrin.

 

I have looked at that, but to me it seemed a bit of a strecth. Other than losing a hand, I didn't see many parallels. Mat and Perrin though, I agree completely. I'd like to hear any more Rand/Tyr parrallels if you have them.

 

Zeus, Jupiter, Tyr, King Arthur, Jesus, and many others all serve as inspirations to Rand's character.

 

Tyr was the god of single combat and justice, concerned with the formalities of war. It was in his character to be a guarantor of contracts and guardian of oaths. Tyr also apparently carried a spear that was more symbol of judicial power than weapon (the Dragon Sceptre?). Jordan also stated at a book signing that Rand was partly modeled on Tyr.

[Terez]

Rand was heavily modeled on the Norse god Tyr, with many King Arthur inspirations as well. Mat was modeled on Odin. Perrin on Thor. They fit in with any number of pagan gods as well. Slavic mythology has a "Perun" as well, and if you read up on him you'll see some obvious parallels with Perrin.

 

I have looked at that, but to me it seemed a bit of a strecth. Other than losing a hand, I didn't see many parallels.

And yet, fans predicted Rand would lost a hand back after LOC based on that parallel. You might try reading up at 13th Depository. It's linked in my sig (reference library).

[Dastion]

Jesus is the most blatant parralel, crown of swords, the wound in his side, born of a maiden, etc for me. But I'm also from the bible belt and, despite my love of mythology, that stuff stood out to me more because it was such a neat twist on the concept, along with the "Sword in the Stone" parralel.

[Goldstar]

The more interesting question IMO is, who is Mordred? There are several Mordred parallels:

 

1. Moridin

2. Mordeth/Fain

3. Demandred

4. Moiraine

5. Gawyn

 

Those are the most likely to actually have a hand in Rand's death. Galad and Elayne are weaker for various reasons. Moiraine is also a Morgan le Fay parallel (that's the obvious one), and oddly enough that's part of what makes her a strong Mordred candidate. Gawyn is more subtle on the name factor, but he sort of fits the relational aspect better. Galad would be even better, but RJ said that Galad and Rand aren't going to have a swordfight, which diminishes Galad's chances quite a bit.

 

By the logic, all of these character's stories got mixed up and became an amalgam called Mordred.

 

I always thought that Gawyn was supposed to be Gawain.

 

 

Some more, just to throw some other names in the lot: Lan = Lancelot, Egwene = Gwenevere, Thom (Merrilin) = Merlin.

[mb]

The links on this page mention character/mythology parallels::

http://wotfaq.dragonmount.com/node/150

 

Edit::

a thread in the structured section talks about this:

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/8886-mythalogical-inspirations-for-the-wheel-of-time/

[Terez]

The more interesting question IMO is, who is Mordred? There are several Mordred parallels:

 

1. Moridin

2. Mordeth/Fain

3. Demandred

4. Moiraine

5. Gawyn

 

Those are the most likely to actually have a hand in Rand's death. Galad and Elayne are weaker for various reasons. Moiraine is also a Morgan le Fay parallel (that's the obvious one), and oddly enough that's part of what makes her a strong Mordred candidate. Gawyn is more subtle on the name factor, but he sort of fits the relational aspect better. Galad would be even better, but RJ said that Galad and Rand aren't going to have a swordfight, which diminishes Galad's chances quite a bit.

 

By the logic, all of these character's stories got mixed up and became an amalgam called Mordred.

I always thought that Gawyn was supposed to be Gawain.

 

Some more, just to throw some other names in the lot: Lan = Lancelot, Egwene = Gwenevere, Thom (Merrilin) = Merlin.

Merlin is also paralleled in Moiraine and in the Amyrlin Seat. Guinevere is also paralleled in Elayne and Nynaeve. Etc. RJ said many times that none of the characters from legend are represented in any one person - there are no direct parallels. Gawain is obviously Gawyn's main parallel, but there's nothing to stop him being a Mordred parallel as well. The principle of it is that the legends and myths are supposed to have come out of the events of WoT in a process that RJ likens to Chinese Whispers. Some characters have been mixed up, and some have been forgotten altogether, but none of the myths and legends are anything that the characters of WoT would recognize as being 'their' story (despite subtle parallels, the most blatant of which are along the lines of the sword in the stone). Anyway, Mordred is a big mystery, but obviously he's not just one character in WoT; he's a combination of at least three characters, each of which will play separate Mordred-related roles.

[Southpaw89]

just because RJ said Rand and Galad don't sword fight doesn't mean Galad won't kill him. Rand could be distracted then get stabbed from behind. Obviously there's a 99.999% chance that won't happen but just sayin.... :)

[FarShainMael]

he's a combination of at least three characters, each of which will play separate Mordred-related roles.

 

Not 'is' or 'will'; it's 'may in my opinion'.

[Terez]

he's a combination of at least three characters, each of which will play separate Mordred-related roles.

 

Not 'is' or 'will'; it's 'may in my opinion'.

No, it's 'will'. I could have said 'already have'. Just the fact that they want Rand dead is enough for that connection with the three I mentioned (who are already parallels by name), but for example, the Dolorous Stroke was represented in Falme when Rand fought Ishamael (Moridin/Moerad).

[FarShainMael]

he's a combination of at least three characters, each of which will play separate Mordred-related roles.

 

Not 'is' or 'will'; it's 'may in my opinion'.

No, it's 'will'. I could have said 'already have'. Just the fact that they want Rand dead is enough for that connection with the three I mentioned (who are already parallels by name), but for example, the Dolorous Stroke was represented in Falme when Rand fought Ishamael (Moridin/Moerad).

 

Those are possible interpretations, certainly. I'll take this opportunity to remind people, though, that the Dolorous Stroke refers to the Fisher King (which we do know is a parallel with Rand) rather than with King Arthur, who is distinct from the Fisher, so it has nothing to do with Mordred:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolorous_Stroke

[Terez]

he's a combination of at least three characters, each of which will play separate Mordred-related roles.

 

Not 'is' or 'will'; it's 'may in my opinion'.

No, it's 'will'. I could have said 'already have'. Just the fact that they want Rand dead is enough for that connection with the three I mentioned (who are already parallels by name), but for example, the Dolorous Stroke was represented in Falme when Rand fought Ishamael (Moridin/Moerad).

 

Those are possible interpretations, certainly.

You could say the same thing about a lot of things that are really obvious.

 

I'll take this opportunity to remind people, though, that the Dolorous Stroke refers to the Fisher King (which we do know is a parallel with Rand) rather than with King Arthur, who is distinct from the Fisher, so it has nothing to do with Mordred:

 

http://en.wikipedia....Dolorous_Stroke

Okay, then it was this. The description is the same. (I only vaguely recalled the name from Linda's blog; she compared it also to the Dolorous Stroke which confused me.)

[FarShainMael]

When Arthur killed Mordred, and was mortally wounded in return? I know the one. And if Falme is a parallel to that, which is possible - there's certainly a very strong similarity despite them not being father and son (??) - making Moridin=Mordred, why drag in Gawyn at all? Not to mention an amalgam of no fewer than five separate people (from your post #8 upthread). Sorry, but I find that clumsy, overcomplicated, and unnecessary if it's already been done at Falme.

 

That's all I have to say on this subject.. Let people read, and decide for themselves.

[SylvanFox]

I also think of al'Thor as "son of Thor" or "child of Thor"... which I guess means Modi, Magni, and whatever his daughter's name is. Strong, anger, and strength. Unless Thor has some other children I'm missing.

[Rose]

But you could also say that just because it happened once doesn't mean it can't happen again. These parallels are not set in stone, far from it. Each character draws on different influences, and similarly, one parallel could show up more than once. RJ didn't have a list of characters from Arthurian mythology that he checked off as he went: "Mordred: done. Arthur: done. etc." He picked and chose and mixed everything with everything all the time.

 

It seems quite clear to me - even though I know almost nothing of most of these myths, I only looked them up - that there is more than one Mordred parallel, so I don't see any reason why Rand couldn't get stabbed by two different characters that both have Mordred-like attributes in two different circumstances. We can't base ourselves on that to say that it will happen for sure, but it's possible.

[Terez]

Also,

 

When Arthur killed Mordred, and was mortally wounded in return? I know the one. And if Falme is a parallel to that, which is possible - there's certainly a very strong similarity despite them not being father and son (??) - making Moridin=Mordred, why drag in Gawyn at all?

1. Mordred needs a parallel somewhere in Rand's extended family. It's probably not going to be Galad, his only real blood, or Perival Mantear (probably a cousin), so that leaves the extended family - Gawyn and Moiraine. We shouldn't expect them to be father and son because that's not how RJ works. He doesn't do exact parallels. Also, he (unlike GRRM) wasn't willing to go the incest road at all, but Rand-Elayne is probably the closest we'll get to that.

 

2. Rand isn't dead yet. The importance of Mordred has to do with Rand's death, and the Battle of Caemlyn, somehow or another. Yes, the parallel was so strong at Falme that I wonder if that sort of double-mortal-wound scenario will happen in AMOL at all, but it seems like something similar will happen.

 

3. I believe that Demandred, Moridin, and Fain are Mordred parallels because they want to kill Rand. I don't believe any of them will be successful; that is where Moiraine and Gawyn come in (though I think it likely that Moridin is the reason why Rand has to die, and maybe the Fain wound as well - Demandred is a wannabe Mordred in the extreme). Alivia will assist in some way, but she's not a Mordred parallel, and I believe her role will be minor (which is fitting since she's a very minor and relatively underdeveloped character). She's a red herring.

 

4. Every time Rand has had a swordfight with another blademaster (not counting practice with Lan), he's had an encounter with one of those Mordred parallels - the reasons why he has to die. Turak led to the Ishamael wound. Toram Riatin led to the Fain wound. Be'lal led to Ishamael (again). Even his non-swordfight encounter with Sammael coincided with a Moridin appearance (right after the Fain wound). Once the heron to set his path, twice the heron to name him true. Swordfighting is important to Rand's destiny...and the second heron was earned at Falme, in the aforementioned Arthur-Mordred-type fight. That's where Gawyn comes in.

 

Somehow, Gawain and Mordred end up being brothers, though of course Gawain isn't related to Arthur. They just share a relative (Mordred). That would seem to point to Galad, but...dunno. How would Galad kill Rand without a sword? And it's a lot easier to see Gawyn doing it anyway. He's the one with the Bloodrings, and if he gets his hands on a proper copy of Mat's ter'angreal, he'll be in good shape. As for Rand's missing hand...

 

"It seems Ryne was wrong as well as a Darkfriend. You were better than he."

 

Lan shook his head slightly. "He was better. But he thought I was finished, with only one arm. He never understood. You surrender after you're dead."

 

Moiraine nodded. Surrender after you are dead. Yes.

It could be that RJ's 'it's not going to happen' (re: Rand and Galad swordfight) just means that Rand won't have a sword. But I don't think so. I think Justice will end up in Gawyn's heart. But he comes back to life when Moiraine balefires Rand. :)