Hints of Demandred's Activity in CoT

[aaron11]

I'm currently doing a reread of the series and am almost done with CoT. In chapter 28 A Cluster of Rosebuds, Mat mentions that the High Lady Suroth had made an alliance with someone powerful that would give the Seachan access to many lands. Anyone else think this is Demandred under the guise of King Roedran?

[MasterAblar]

I'm currently doing a reread of the series and am almost done with CoT. In chapter 28 A Cluster of Rosebuds, Mat mentions that the High Lady Suroth had made an alliance with someone powerful that would give the Seachan access to many lands. Anyone else think this is Demandred under the guise of King Roedran?

 

It could be Masema. It would explain why he had that paper that Perrin used to get the forkroot.

[aaron11]

I'm currently doing a reread of the series and am almost done with CoT. In chapter 28 A Cluster of Rosebuds, Mat mentions that the High Lady Suroth had made an alliance with someone powerful that would give the Seachan access to many lands. Anyone else think this is Demandred under the guise of King Roedran?

 

It could be Masema. It would explain why he had that paper that Perrin used to get the forkroot.

 

I don't think it is Masema, later in the chapter Juilin reports to Mat "It seems Suroth might have made an alliance with some king." The only king I can think of that would be dealing with the Seachan is King Roedran, and he is one of the biggest suspects of being Demandred.

[damandred]

I think masema had the power of a king and had many followers so could easily been mistaken for one. As for demandred being King Roedran I think its would be a bit of a anti climax if it is true as murandy is hardly a powerful nation and it would not be much of a coup. Would the murandy army even fight for the shadow when everbody else is for the DR,WT or seanchan. Even if demd has been has been securing his rule with an iron glove how will he blag the the murandian army and nobles (never loyal to any king anyway),to fight when they look at there own ranks and see a lode of trollic's and fades, then look at the enermy and see the rest of humanity. Lastly talmanes' comment to mat in KoD about the book fog and steel and how king roedran had two copies to help him be a better captain. Demd already thinks himself a great captain and would proberbly scorn any writting from a lesser age than his own.

[JeffWeissberg]

weird I always thought this referred to Perrin, with a little "Rumor Telephone" going on

[Leyrann]

I think masema had the power of a king and had many followers so could easily been mistaken for one. As for demandred being King Roedran I think its would be a bit of a anti climax if it is true as murandy is hardly a powerful nation and it would not be much of a coup. Would the murandy army even fight for the shadow when everbody else is for the DR,WT or seanchan. Even if demd has been has been securing his rule with an iron glove how will he blag the the murandian army and nobles (never loyal to any king anyway),to fight when they look at there own ranks and see a lode of trollic's and fades, then look at the enermy and see the rest of humanity. Lastly talmanes' comment to mat in KoD about the book fog and steel and how king roedran had two copies to help him be a better captain. Demd already thinks himself a great captain and would proberbly scorn any writting from a lesser age than his own.

 

Maybe this is too much off-topic, but this is, in short, why Demandred as King Roedran wouldn't be an anticlimax (of course, maybe not everyone thinks the same about what an anticlimax is, but still...).

 

Murandy was (note the past tense) indeed not a powerful nation. But it is a nation with relatively many people (RJ said so), and Roedran (as I'll just call him) has used the Band to unite Murandy. Earlier, someone said/thought (I think in FoH, but I don't remember it from reading, only someone quoting it) that Roedran never had intentions to rule all of Murandy. And most likely, the army will fight against the Band and the Andoran army in the Battle of Caemlyn, without even seeing a Trolloc. So they also don't know they are fighting for the Shadow. And of course Demadred woulr read Fog and Steel. I don't know if he would use the tactics in it, but it would be really stupid not to know what tactics the enemy will use, so that you can counter it with some awesome AoL tactics. In short, a brilliant plan, also because no one would even look at Murandy.

[damandred]

For Demandred to unite a kingdom that for centuries was famously divided and then forge it into a world power in less than a year would be miraculous. And Talmanes didn't say the band united murandy just that he had a deal with Roedran that was over with. I may be wrong but I don't think there's been any mention of Murandy being in a differant state than its always been. How would the murandians not see a trolloc in the battle for caemlyn when we left there in ToM the city was burning because the shadowspawn army had gotten in through a waygate. If the murandians invaded andor then saw shadowspawn destroying the city the captains would be more likely to attack the shadowspawn. And dends enemies wouldn't be using tactics out of fog and steel as its an old book and obsure only come to light by mats other mens memories. That's my unerstanding of it anyway.

[Bluedust9]

For Demandred to unite a kingdom that for centuries was famously divided and then forge it into a world power in less than a year would be miraculous. And Talmanes didn't say the band united murandy just that he had a deal with Roedran that was over with. I may be wrong but I don't think there's been any mention of Murandy being in a differant state than its always been. How would the murandians not see a trolloc in the battle for caemlyn when we left there in ToM the city was burning because the shadowspawn army had gotten in through a waygate. If the murandians invaded andor then saw shadowspawn destroying the city the captains would be more likely to attack the shadowspawn. And dends enemies wouldn't be using tactics out of fog and steel as its an old book and obsure only come to light by mats other mens memories. That's my unerstanding of it anyway.

 

Read the earlier books again. Rahvin, Be'lal, Sammael, all helped to turn whole cities against other cities, through dreams mostly it looked. Tear was ready to destroy Illian, Andor destroy Cairhien, etc. Murandy has already been described as a very paranoid and selfish people who hate outsiders and especially hate Andor. Add in some Forsaken negativity force power, and there you go. As for the trollocs, just say Caemlyn is in control of the Shadow, Dem doesn't care if Murandy's forces die, he just needs to cause chaos and distract the Light long enough to do whatever is planned.

[damandred]

Good point charlie and your right about the negative influance a forsaken can have on a city(I'd forgotten illian/tear. But could he corrupt a whole natian? Even if he could though I think he would be limited by what he could do even with a united murandy. With the rest of the free (ish) world fighting for the light, DR,WT or seanchan. I think dem rules the BT through hos tool Taim.

[Bluedust9]

All he would need are the major houses in the cities. Then the outliers would join in once they saw the threat from the Borderlanders/BotRH/Andor.

 

It's been said many times how Murandians hate Andor. I don't see how it's impossible for after Demandred to corrupt them in whatever ways (Dreams have what we seen, but who knows?) to go along with an invasion. When they meet trollocs who cares? By then the Light is already distracted with Andor/Band of the Red Hand/Murandy/Shadow fighting in mass Chaos. Lets the Lord of Chaos rule.

[damandred]

Okay I'm maybe leaning towards your way of thinking. Not totally sold but the battle for caemlyn could be epic that way espesh if the BT get involved and word gets back the FoM.

[Kahsm]

weird I always thought this referred to Perrin, with a little "Rumor Telephone" going on

 

This. It's hilarious really. RJ subtlety ftw.

[MauricXe]

I thought RJ said we haven't seen Demandred's secret identity at all.

[damandred]

That would fit with King Roedran who has never been seen "on screen" I don't think

[yoniy0]

Just one minor correction - all we've seen of Caemlyn at the end of ToM is a red fog over the city. We don't actually know that there are Shadowspawn in it already. Having said that, I do believe that there are.

[Bluedust9]

Also want to add, Roedran is the only one not at the FOM. He has to be doing something, the whole point of building an army seems odd if they do nothing with it in the final book. I'd say they aren't at FOM because they're attacking Caemlyn, but that's just my opinion.