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Egwene saved by a Seachan woman


aaron11
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I was just reading through Egwene's dream section of CoT, and i had forgot that she had a dream that she would be saved by a seachan woman. Right after she has this dream she has the dream of the tower being attacked by the seachan. When she wakes she says she knows what the two dreams mean, and the tower being attacked already came true. Any thoughts on how she will be saved and by whom?

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I'm assuming you've read passed CoT, but if not, don't read what I'm about to say.

 

 

It's gonna be Egeanin (Leilwin, for the sake of trolling). She's been trained with a sword (Egwene's dream references this), and she went to the the White Tower with Joline and her group.

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I'm assuming you've read passed CoT, but if not, don't read what I'm about to say.

 

 

It's gonna be Egeanin (Leilwin, for the sake of trolling). She's been trained with a sword (Egwene's dream references this), and she went to the the White Tower with Joline and her group.

 

That was my best guess for who, but now the question is how?

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I'm assuming you've read passed CoT, but if not, don't read what I'm about to say.

 

 

It's gonna be Egeanin (Leilwin, for the sake of trolling). She's been trained with a sword (Egwene's dream references this), and she went to the the White Tower with Joline and her group.

 

That was my best guess for who, but now the question is how?

if thats the case why does the face keep changing in the vission?

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I'm assuming you've read passed CoT, but if not, don't read what I'm about to say.

 

 

It's gonna be Egeanin (Leilwin, for the sake of trolling). She's been trained with a sword (Egwene's dream references this), and she went to the the White Tower with Joline and her group.

 

That was my best guess for who, but now the question is how?

if thats the case why does the face keep changing in the vission?

 

Two symbolize Egeanin's two names?

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1) We asked Brandon after TGS, and he said it wasn't yet fulfilled.

 

2) I think it's probably Tuon. The sword is Justice. (This is corroborated by another dream Egwene has of a female golden hawk's wing stretching out to touch her.)

I agree with you that it is Tuon, but I'm not that sure about the sword. To me the sword symbolizes her army. (Bryne: An army is a general's sword.)

 

Suddenly a woman appeared, clambering down the sheer side of the cliff out of the clouds, making her way as deftly as if she were walking down stairs.

My interpretation of this part is that she arrives on a *raken.

I think this dream is about the second attack of the Seanchan.

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I also hold this to be an army. According to the vision the face shifts (as it is many people), yet the sword remains solid (indicating the nature as military--i.e. an army). The figure over all is female because the army is acting on a woman's instructions, most probably Fortuona's.

 

My guess is that the Seanchan relieve a seige of Tar Valon--Egwene is struggling along, the cliff slips out--the danger, the struggle is hers. This, I believe, represents a seige of the city by the Shadow, one which the Aes Sedai are struggling with. The Seanchan woman descends the cliff easily (because the Seanchan aren't embroiled in the fight, they are joining it) and say that they can make it together (the obstacle they can overcome together being the Shadowspawn army, the one thing Aes Sedai and Seanchan could agree to be an enemy).

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I also hold this to be an army. According to the vision the face shifts (as it is many people), yet the sword remains solid (indicating the nature as military--i.e. an army). The figure over all is female because the army is acting on a woman's instructions, most probably Fortuona's.

IMO the sword is solid because it's so important to the negotiations (and also representative of the Empire itself), and the face is definitely female because the Seanchan always have an Empress (but who the Empress would be might have been less clear).

Edited by Terez
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I also hold this to be an army. According to the vision the face shifts (as it is many people), yet the sword remains solid (indicating the nature as military--i.e. an army). The figure over all is female because the army is acting on a woman's instructions, most probably Fortuona's.

 

My guess is that the Seanchan relieve a seige of Tar Valon--Egwene is struggling along, the cliff slips out--the danger, the struggle is hers. This, I believe, represents a seige of the city by the Shadow, one which the Aes Sedai are struggling with. The Seanchan woman descends the cliff easily (because the Seanchan aren't embroiled in the fight, they are joining it) and say that they can make it together (the obstacle they can overcome together being the Shadowspawn army, the one thing Aes Sedai and Seanchan could agree to be an enemy).

Egwene had another dream about this attack

“She had dreamed of Seanchan, too, of women in dresses with lightning bolts woven on their breasts, collaring a long line of women who wore Great Serpent rings, forcing them to call lightning against the White Tower.” (tDR, chapter 25)

Because of the Three Oaths there are 2 possibilities this will happen:

1. The Seanchan have captured and leashed a lot of Black Sisters

2. The White Tower is under siege or occupied by the Black Ajah and/or Shadowspan

 

Furthermore we should realize there is a grove in Tar Valon. We can assume there is a Waygate too.

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Egwene states that she knows what the two dreams mean, she says she will be saved by a Seachan woMAN, singular. I highly doubt that Tuon is the one that will save her. She completely despises people that are unleashed. Egeanin is still the best fit i can think of.

Edited by aaron11
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I also hold this to be an army. According to the vision the face shifts (as it is many people), yet the sword remains solid (indicating the nature as military--i.e. an army). The figure over all is female because the army is acting on a woman's instructions, most probably Fortuona's.

 

My guess is that the Seanchan relieve a seige of Tar Valon--Egwene is struggling along, the cliff slips out--the danger, the struggle is hers. This, I believe, represents a seige of the city by the Shadow, one which the Aes Sedai are struggling with. The Seanchan woman descends the cliff easily (because the Seanchan aren't embroiled in the fight, they are joining it) and say that they can make it together (the obstacle they can overcome together being the Shadowspawn army, the one thing Aes Sedai and Seanchan could agree to be an enemy).

Egwene had another dream about this attack

“She had dreamed of Seanchan, too, of women in dresses with lightning bolts woven on their breasts, collaring a long line of women who wore Great Serpent rings, forcing them to call lightning against the White Tower.” (tDR, chapter 25)

Because of the Three Oaths there are 2 possibilities this will happen:

1. The Seanchan have captured and leashed a lot of Black Sisters

2. The White Tower is under siege or occupied by the Black Ajah and/or Shadowspan

 

Furthermore we should realize there is a grove in Tar Valon. We can assume there is a Waygate too.

 

Firstly, we don't have to assume there is a Waygate at Tar Valon--it's stated that there is, and we see the girls use it to get to Toman Head.

 

Secondly, there are four other explanations to that dream. I will list them in order of what I believe to be least likely to most.

 

1. Accepted wear the Great Serpant Ring. The dream could refer to them.

 

2. The Oaths are dependent on belief. It's theoretically possibly this can be used to force an Aes Sedai to evade the Oath--i.e. threatening another Aes Sedai (as alast extreme to save that woman's life, an Aes Sedai could use the Power as a weapon). There are several variations of this theory, and it should be noted that Fortuona directly considers the issue that there may be ways around the Oaths. However the effort involves makes this seem pointless--why go to such extremes when you can simply have an Unbound damane do the same.

 

3. The Kin. Though they do not physically wear the ring, those who passed the test for Acceptance have every right to it, which is more than enough merit for the dream given the symbolic forms it may take. It should be noted that the Kin seemingly stick to the coasts (the furthest away from the Tower, and also the points most subject to Seanchan conquer).

 

4. This dream could be an example of when dreams do not come true. Dreams, unlike Foretellings, only show possible futures. This is what I believe is the case--I do not see time for another Seanchan assault on the White Tower.

 

Egwene states that she knows what the two dreams mean, she says she will be saved by a Seachan woMAN, singular. I highly doubt that Tuon is the one that will save her. She completely despises people that are unleashed. Egeanin is still the best fit i can think of.

 

The face constantly shifts. This more than provides answer to the singular issue--the face always shifts because there are many people, yet it is represented by a singular woman because these people are all enacting the will of one woman.

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I'm still stubbornly holding out for General Tylee.

I break it down into three categories, Motive, Authority and Proximity.

Tylee is the only one out of herself, Tuon and Egeanin that reasonably qualifies for all three.

If Tylee is part of the Seanchan force going to TV, I think it's a lock.

 

Also, in her dream, the Seanchan woman's face didn't change or shift, it wavers and never becomes clear. Big difference IMO.

Edited by Finnssss
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I'm still stubbornly holding out for General Tylee.

I break it down into three categories, Motive, Authority and Proximity.

Tylee is the only one out of herself, Tuon and Egeanin that reasonably qualifies for all three.

If Tylee is part of the Seanchan force going to TV, I think it's a lock.

 

Also, in her dream, the Seanchan woman's face didn't change or shift, it wavers and never becomes clear. Big difference IMO.

 

Egeanin is the only one that is on her way to TV that doesn't want to collar all AS, and thank you for pointing out that the face doesn't change to a different person.

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The face constantly shifts. This more than provides answer to the singular issue--the face always shifts because there are many people, yet it is represented by a singular woman because these people are all enacting the will of one woman.

"More than provides the answer", eh? :biggrin: I think Brandon was dropping hints here:

 

BRANDON

[after looking at said passage] That is an oddity, I'll admit. But dreams are not always clear, as I've said. I lay my bet on his face simply wasn't clear.

BRANDON

There are good reasons for that—for example, Aram's place in the Pattern may not have been as set as Perrin's.

BRANDON

A fuzziness to accompany the uncertainty, so Egwene couldn't recognize him. After all, she doesn't describe the face.

Seems to me like he pulled that one out of the hat. Since the Seanchan woman dream is significant to his writing, that was an answer he had on hand.

Edited by Terez
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...and the face is definitely female because the Seanchan always have an Empress (but who the Empress would be might have been less clear).

 

Has it ever been said that they always have to have an Empress? Luthair Paendrag was the first Emperor, right? I couldn't find the relevant quote but I searched quickly (Wikipedia) which stated that there hasn't been an emperor in Seanchan for 900 years. But, could they have one? Or has something been changed in their society that only allows for an Empress?

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...and the face is definitely female because the Seanchan always have an Empress (but who the Empress would be might have been less clear).

 

Has it ever been said that they always have to have an Empress? Luthair Paendrag was the first Emperor, right? I couldn't find the relevant quote but I searched quickly (Wikipedia) which stated that there hasn't been an emperor in Seanchan for 900 years. But, could they have one? Or has something been changed in their society that only allows for an Empress?

it was stated that the last emperor was 1000 years ago and he went mad or some such. theoretically there could be a new emperor, although I have the feeling to be empress or emperor you must be a learner to be able to sit on the throne and demand obediance, or else the royal family can still scheme to bring you down

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