Can someone point me in the right direction...

[bjclinton]

Has their been any posts on this forum talking about what role the Tinkers could play in the last book? I'm intersted in hearing if anyone has any thoughts on whether or not they find their song. If so, what part could it play???

[RobertAlexWillis]

They get to headline the victory party.

[bjclinton]

haha- nice one!!

 

I always thought there might be a connection to the supposed "Song" they're looking for and the Treesinging that the Ogier do- some of the magic from the last age or the age of Legends...anyone ever wonder about that, or are they just good fodder for Trollocs :D

[RobertAlexWillis]

The "Song" they are looking for comes from a distorted remembrance of the singing that the Da'shain Aiel (the original Tinkers' ancestors) did with the Ogier and the Nym during the Age of Legends. One effect of such singing was to strengthen crops so that they grew quickly without blight or disease. An abundance of food has always been one key to paradise.

[agreddon]

How about this:

 

The Ogier find that the only way they can open the book is if the Tinkers find the song, so the Tinkers sing them out of this world, thus either taking the Trollocs with them or turning the Trollics into pacifists.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Um ... the Ogier don't seem to be considering whether they can use the Book of Translation, just whether now is the time that they should use it. It seems a given that they know how to use it, and that it doesn't require any outside assistance.

 

But tree-hugging Trollocs would be ... ah ... interesting.

[Luckers]

I can see Narg now, playing with all the cute little bunny rabits...

[algspkr]

There was a theory awhile back that the song would be found and used to cleanse the blight.

[Whitestar]

I think Perrin will find the Song in a post aMoL. If memory serves, Min had a viewing about him with plants growing around him in the EotW. As of the song being discovered before the end of the series, I don't see the point. It's not needed and there are soooooo many other plots to conclude.

[dimmu666]

The song is actually Backstreet Boys's Get Down

*you're the one for me, you're my ecstacy, you're the one i need! get down get down and move it all around!* which when found turns the entire Randland into a crazed rabid infestation of dancing zombies. The DO breaks out then hears everyone singing this crap and decides to go back in...like whats the point of ruling a bunch of psycho backstreet boy lovers yeah?

Only the tinkers manage to escape the zombifiying qualities of the song and goes on to discover Britney spears, spice girls etc. effectively ending the age of Supposed Tarmon Gaidon.

[RobertAlexWillis]

So that's the answer. Rand hears that pop music, and immediately recognizes it's true value. He plays it for the Dark One, who reseals his own Prison in the original state, cursing the fact that he'll have to wait seven more ages to get back into the Wheel with a chance to destroy that music forever.

 

Oh, no, wait, that can't be it. That would make his motivations too human.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Just because you're a totally alien lifeform with inhuman thought processes does not mean you can't hate bad music.

[Luckers]

I think Perrin will find the Song in a post aMoL.

 

The Song is not a song... as in, its not a specific lymeric or sequence of words that contain power. It is a Talent, a function of the Voice. Akin to Treesinging, it will not work without the power of the Talent behind it.

[Jellybelly]

To me, RobertAlexWillis described what the Song is perfectly above. A memory of a memory of what the Da'shain Aiel used to do.

[Luckers]

Indeed, and what the Da'shain Aiel used to do was a function of the Voice, nothing more.

[RobertAlexWillis]

The human talent called the Voice, in combination with what the Ogier now call Treesinging, filtered through and combined by an unnamed ability of the Nym, is what is remembered imperfectly as the "Song". So, Luckers is right, and so am I, we're saying the same thing.

 

If anything is likely to recall the process known as the "Song" to the Tuatha'an, it would be a reconciliation of some sort with the Aiel. The pillars of Rhuidean likely contain the Tinkers history as well, since they are descended from the Da'shain Aiel. Obviously the Ogier aren't going to remind them, so the Aiel chieftains and Wise Ones are the most likely source for reclaiming that knowledge.

 

However, since there are no more Nym, it is unlikely that the "Song" will be recovered in its entirety until the Second Age rolls around again. The Fourth Age will not be a regurgitation of the wonders of the Second Age, it will be different things.

[Luckers]

There were some suggstions a while back that some of the Nym survived in Shara, based, i believe, around rumours of giants and the like.

[RobertAlexWillis]

That would be very surprising, since as Jonai was leaving the Hall of Servants (in Rand's ancestral flashback) Oselle Sedai says, discussing the creation of the Eye, "Then we will do what we must. The sword [Callandor] must wait. Someshta, we have a task for the last of the Nym, if you will do it. We have asked too much of you; now we must ask more." [The Shadow Rising, chapter 26 The Dedicated ](obviously referencing his at that time future guardianship of the Eye). Since the Breaking was still in its beginning, and the Hall of Servants was still functioning on some level, it seems odd that an Aes Sedai obviously in a position of knowledge and authority would so casually make that reference unless it had been pretty well established as factual.

[Thor]

Yeah, I agree. With the death of the Green Man, Nyms are now extinct.

 

But there has to be more to it than that, still don't know how Perrin can possibly find the song. :?:

[RobertAlexWillis]

He could possibly ... possibly ... facilitate a meeting between the Tinkers and the Aiel, since he knows both. Thats as close as I can come to a way that Perrin could be involved in finding the "Song". And with Tarmon Gai'don on his plate, I think thats gonna be pretty far down his list.

[dimmu666]

wait....so you're saying that Nick Carter actually has some sort of tree growing power in his voice?....awesome i'ma try it out by playing Shape of My Heart to that oak in my garden.

[jkeaves]

No, Nick Carter has puke-growing power in his voice. Although, now that I think about it, if Rand were to blast Nick Carter to his army, the army would go into a beserker rade and demolish the DO's forces. Of course, the DO would counter with Blasting Celine Dion, forcing everyone to cringe and cover their ears. Except for the Trollocs, who have notoriously bad take and posters of Celine Dion in their caves.

 

On a more serious note, if I remember the scene RobertAlexWillis mentioned correctly, I don't think the song can be done without the Nym. I think the Nym took the song from the Ogier and the humans and wove it into the fields. It might be possible, however, that the Nym's had something like the Oiger's "book of translation" such that they still exist, just somewhere else.

 

You know Elayne probably has an answer in that terangreal library she has.

[Luckers]

That would be very surprising, since as Jonai was leaving the Hall of Servants (in Rand's ancestral flashback) Oselle Sedai says, discussing the creation of the Eye, "Then we will do what we must. The sword [Callandor] must wait. Someshta, we have a task for the last of the Nym, if you will do it. We have asked too much of you; now we must ask more." [The Shadow Rising, chapter 26 The Dedicated ](obviously referencing his at that time future guardianship of the Eye). Since the Breaking was still in its beginning, and the Hall of Servants was still functioning on some level, it seems odd that an Aes Sedai obviously in a position of knowledge and authority would so casually make that reference unless it had been pretty well established as factual.

 

Yes, I'm not unaware of that, nor am i suggesting the theory, i just said that it was suggested.

 

That being said, it is very easy to assume that people are dead when they are not, especially spanning a war, and in the beginning days of the Breaking when all of the citizens have fled and infrastructure has fallen to a bare minimum.

[dimmu666]

The book of translation is a portal to another world right? the Ogier will use it to go back to their world. It is obvious then that all 'alien' things like Ogier and Nym don't actually belong in this world....ok i'm seeing such a link with LOTR here. The elves and dwarfs helped win the war then they leave the world...that kind of outcome is becoming cliche. seriously, whats the deal? can't they just freakin stay? if they weren't a part of this world then why the hell are they here? RJ put them in the world to sing a freakin song that will have enough power to unbreak the world after TG? oh cmon let that be some good old Iron Maiden.

[Guest Majsju]

The Ogier apparently came from another world, but the Nyms were artificial beings, constructed by the Aes Sedai during the AOL.