Egwene/the Aes Sedai

[SuperFade]

Darkfriend plots can show up anywhere, and aren't the responsibility of any particular Ajah, or even of AS in particular. As for raids, it's doubtful even stationing the entire Green Ajah in the Borderlands would stop them. There just aren't enough Greens to go around. You'd need to have them very spread out - so the Shadow either raids where they aren't, or they attack in force an overwhelm the Greens. They would be of greratest use in groups, used to fight off large scale incursions - large scale incursions being rare. They can hone their skills by taking trips into the Blight, but that's practise rather than anything that's going to harm the Shadow. If you spend the thousand years after the Trolloc Wars fighting off the occasional attack, but half the time the fight is over before you get there anyway, then you probably won't feel this is the best use of your time - and if they were forced to leave during Hawkwing's time, then they might see precious little point in going back (or might go back and abandon their positions later, for the same reason). Yes, the Borderlands are faced with a constant battle against the Shadow, but the AS are too few in number to change that. Ultimately, they could do little on the Blightborder. Malkier was a rarity. Had they been there, they might have made things much harder for the Shadow, but considering how unlikely it was that something like Malkier would happen, it's no surprise they weren't there.

 

By that logic there's no point in stationing anyone along the blightborder, as damandred points out. The Green Ajah's reason for existance is to fight the Shadow. Pretty much the only area where the Shadow can make any major incursions into Randland is the blightborder. Therefore, the borderlands is where the majority of the Greens should be stationed. If they aren't there, how can they perform their intended purpose? The fact is, the Aes Sedai don't know when the Last Battle will begin. Because of that, it would make sense to give Greens as much experience fighting shadowspawn as possible. Not making a big impact or driving the Shadowspawn back isn't the main issue, it's the Green Ajah not fulfilling their intended purpose. In fact, what are the Greens doing in-universe? They claim to be the Battle Ajah, but they sure don't seem to do much fighting.

[damandred]

Why it must be recognised, that the WT as a whole as have failed in there duty as, "servants of all".

The lack of Green Ajah outposts along the blight now or in the past is so fundamentally negligent that I think it deserves highlighting, and the yellow is not far behind in dereliction of duty as I think there should of been healing centres though out the border lands to assist the soldiers who essentially keep the shadow at bay.

I think it fair to say though that the WT as a institution, has let the Borderlanders down.

Ironically its the Borderlanders who show AS the most respect.

[dwn]

As for there being no point of a Green presence on the Border because the Trollocs only perfurm raids. By your own logic it would be a waste of time having any soldiers there at all.

The whole point of a raid is to strike quickly were you think defences are week then get out.

The trick is to place your forces (green included) where you think the raids would begin or places you think are vunerable.

 

The point is that there are ~200 Greens for a 3000 mile border. It's numerically impossible to position them to ward off shadowspawn raids with any hope of success. On the other hand, soldiers are plentiful, so stationing them along the border is quite feasible.

 

Another somewhat unattractive point is this: Aes Sedai are not only rare, but replacing them is far more 'expensive' than recruiting new soldiers. Few women can learn to channel, it takes (at least) several years to train them, and most will not have sufficient strength to be useful. Losing even one or two Aes Sedai a year in skirmishes along the blight border would destroy the White Tower after a couple centuries.

 

-- dwn

[SuperFade]

I've stated it numerous times, but the Green's very reason for existing is to fight the Shadow. If they aren't going to be stationed in the Borderlands then they might as well not exist. How else could they stand ready to face the Shadow? How else could they gain practical combat experience apart from fighting alongside the borderlanders? This is particularly important since the White Tower has no idea when the Last Battle will occur, and a force of battle hardened Greens with experience fighting shadowspawn would be invaluable.

 

The length of the blightborder and potential loss of Aes Sedai is a concern. However, it still boils down to the same conclusion; the Green are not performing the duties they were founded for in the first place. They are not fighting the Shadow in any meaningful capacity. They have failed as an Ajah.

[Suttree]

I've stated it numerous times, but the Green's very reason for existing is to fight the Shadow. If they aren't going to be stationed in the Borderlands then they might as well not exist. How else could they stand ready to face the Shadow? How else could they gain practical combat experience apart from fighting alongside the borderlanders? This is particularly important since the White Tower has no idea when the Last Battle will occur, and a force of battle hardened Greens with experience fighting shadowspawn would be invaluable.

 

The length of the blightborder and potential loss of Aes Sedai is a concern. However, it still boils down to the same conclusion; the Green are not performing the duties they were founded for in the first place. They are not fighting the Shadow in any meaningful capacity. They have failed as an Ajah.

 

So it's your opinion that we havent had any Greens fighting in the borderlands? They are doing nothing to fight the shadow? They have no practical combat experience and are not battle hardened correct? Strange then that the BWB would refer to them as "Fierce fighters of Shadowspawn".

 

By your reasoning it's impossible for them to play any meaningful role at TG. After all how could they gain the requisite skills to successfully wage war if they have failed so totally and do not already have them? You are falling into the trap of thinking since the main story hasn't centered on it that it's not happening. A full third of the WT is out in the world and you would truly like us to believe that none of those Greens are in the Borderlands? In addition people make a mistake thinking of Greens as individual fighters. In the Trolloc Wars some were Generals and small complements of AS were attached to banners of military personnel. It has already been noted how this would be impossible in attempting to cover the entire Borderlands but there will most likely be a similar role in the upcoming battles of TG.

 

Just to get it cleared up, I would like someone to ask BS about what the average Green does when she is out in the world, her knowledge of tactics and how the advisors to Borderland nations duties differ with those in the south. After all if you are correct in that they are not performing their duties and have no "practical combat experience"(clearly false just based on Kiruna, Alanna, etc) I will be the first to condemn them as well.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Where are you all getting the 'green ajah mandate' & 'reason for being', and 'duties they were founded for' from?

 

Looking through encyclopedia wot, re-reads, and so forth, even the lamentable wheel wiki...All I ever see is the generic 'what it means to be green' where whats her face mentions being down with the fellas, a name people called them during the Trolloc Wars, and that they stand ready for TG.

 

I'm not trying to be blithe but it feels like some of you folks are applying a really narrow mindset based upon assumptions & personal opinion, minus any regard for in-world historical circumstance, established, consequential & logistical realities.

 

Let's assume it were so, that the Green ajah were going to be posted along the entirety of the blightborder. If so, you also have to assume the Black ajah knows every little nuance of the idea.

 

*high ho, high ho, its to the border we go

 

You're kidding yourself if you don't think those Aes Sedai are dead girls walking. "Hey, dipsy-do & sally-sue are headed up north" "whack 'em on the road"

 

Now lets say your merry band makes it up North. Yaayyy, I know we're totally cut off from our base, and we're just so totally going to be able to co-opt local support & authority. I mean, they wouldn't ever be darkfriends would they? Pssh, common, this close to the blight? Naah, we're like so set up *hair flip.

 

Say, did anything happen in the world while it took us six months to a year to all get into place? Cus, like, my pigeon has a sprained wing..?

 

Meanwhile, back at the blight: Hey did you hear, the knuckleheads strung their already shallow abilities & power across the entire border. Care to raid en masse and wipe out their good intentions?

 

 

...It'd all amount to a huge magnet. Look at the battle of Cairhien: Rand, Moiraine, Egwene, Avienda(?), a handfull of some of the most powerful OP wielders of the age, exhausted & ready to fall over in less than 12 hours.

 

You've got to be off your rocker, knowing that the vast majority of Aes Sedai in existence are underpowered & possess less Talents, to really believe that they wouldn't be a tremendous magnet for shadowy forces. So, now that you've stationed your supposed force across a tremendous border, and not being able to ignore (as a reader) that the other side is would be aware of both you intentions, and your abilities.

 

I mean what would you do if you knew there were going to be over 200 Aes Sedai posted to the border, and you were the other side. You're going to look awful stupid when shadowspawn central waygates & travels hundreds of hundreds of miles south, raids and pillages the south, laughs at your delusions for thinking you know what's up...

 

But, let's say that wouldn't happen *pantomimes gun to own temple, mimics boom, gross sounds

 

Let's say the dark knows you've posted all those Aes Sedai, who can't travel, who are underpowered, and isolated from any own support. You've made every post along the border a prime target. We know borderlanders are cool for Aes Sedai, so we can assume they'd send forces to back them up. Congratulations, you've just instigated a cycle where thousands and thousands of people will die, because you wanted to feel good about yourself, and it's not even TG time.

 

And, that's all assuming the other side would politely show up where you want to engage in battle, under circumstances certainly to your favor, and most definitely at the right time of the month as well, for the heck of it.

 

 

It's a pipe dream. You know it is.

[David Selig]

I've stated it numerous times, but the Green's very reason for existing is to fight the Shadow. If they aren't going to be stationed in the Borderlands then they might as well not exist. How else could they stand ready to face the Shadow? How else could they gain practical combat experience apart from fighting alongside the borderlanders? This is particularly important since the White Tower has no idea when the Last Battle will occur, and a force of battle hardened Greens with experience fighting shadowspawn would be invaluable.

 

The length of the blightborder and potential loss of Aes Sedai is a concern. However, it still boils down to the same conclusion; the Green are not performing the duties they were founded for in the first place. They are not fighting the Shadow in any meaningful capacity. They have failed as an Ajah.

The Greens declared reason reason for existence is preparing for and participating in the Last Battle. If they kick butt during it, they've done their job.

 

Now I agree that helping fight the Trollocs near the Blight is the most logical course of action for them to gain experience and also help the locals. But just because they seemingly haven't done in the last few years, doesn't mean they've entirely failed.

[randsc]

The WOT equivalent of Godwin's law: He who first invokes the BWB loses.

 

An interesting article: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/ft/2011/10/we_need_to_talk_about_kevin_author_lionel_shriver_why_literature.html

[Mats Spare Hat]

 

An interesting article: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/ft/2011/10/we_need_to_talk_about_kevin_author_lionel_shriver_why_literature.html

 

 

*thumbs up

[SuperFade]

Where are you all getting the 'green ajah mandate' & 'reason for being', and 'duties they were founded for' from?

 

Looking through encyclopedia wot, re-reads, and so forth, even the lamentable wheel wiki...All I ever see is the generic 'what it means to be green' where whats her face mentions being down with the fellas, a name people called them during the Trolloc Wars, and that they stand ready for TG.

 

I'm not trying to be blithe but it feels like some of you folks are applying a really narrow mindset based upon assumptions & personal opinion, minus any regard for in-world historical circumstance, established, consequential & logistical realities.

 

You're using an awful lot of long words that don't really mean anything. We know that the Green's purpose is to stand ready for TG, we hear it straight from one of them when Elayne asks what their duties are. Their duty is to fight shadowspawn and dreadlords. What could be simpler?

 

Let's assume it were so, that the Green ajah were going to be posted along the entirety of the blightborder. If so, you also have to assume the Black ajah knows every little nuance of the idea.

 

*high ho, high ho, its to the border we go

 

You're kidding yourself if you don't think those Aes Sedai are dead girls walking. "Hey, dipsy-do & sally-sue are headed up north" "whack 'em on the road"

 

I don't see what the Black has to do with anything; we as the readers know about them, but in-universe the White Tower discounts their existence. They aren't an in-universe consideration in sending groups of Aes Sedai anywhere. We don't know how the Black would have reacted; indeed, lots of Green sisters turning up dead would alert the Tower that something was wrong.

 

Now lets say your merry band makes it up North. Yaayyy, I know we're totally cut off from our base, and we're just so totally going to be able to co-opt local support & authority. I mean, they wouldn't ever be darkfriends would they? Pssh, common, this close to the blight? Naah, we're like so set up *hair flip.

 

Say, did anything happen in the world while it took us six months to a year to all get into place? Cus, like, my pigeon has a sprained wing..?

 

They are Aes Sedai. If you remember, Aes Sedai are greatly respected in the Borderlands. They would have little difficulty in gaining support from whoever was in charge. I suspect many local Lords would be very grateful to have Aes Sedai accompany some of their patrols. And the problem with communication is hardly limited to Aes Sedai. Honestly, it feels like you're grasping at straws with that last point.

 

Meanwhile, back at the blight: Hey did you hear, the knuckleheads strung their already shallow abilities & power across the entire border. Care to raid en masse and wipe out their good intentions?

 

...It'd all amount to a huge magnet. Look at the battle of Cairhien: Rand, Moiraine, Egwene, Avienda(?), a handfull of some of the most powerful OP wielders of the age, exhausted & ready to fall over in less than 12 hours.

 

Hold on. When did anyone say they should be guarding the entire length of the blightborder? The best place to station them would be either in the capitals of each Border nation or any significant border forts. From there, the respective generals and strategists could plan out where they were needed and which patrols they could accompany. Pretty simple stuff.

 

Not sure where you're going with Cairhein, that was a totally different kettle of fish. It was a pitched battle against human opponents who had their own channelers. Completely different from a trolloc raiding party which might have a fade or two at most.

 

You've got to be off your rocker, knowing that the vast majority of Aes Sedai in existence are underpowered & possess less Talents, to really believe that they wouldn't be a tremendous magnet for shadowy forces. So, now that you've stationed your supposed force across a tremendous border, and not being able to ignore (as a reader) that the other side is would be aware of both you intentions, and your abilities.

 

The Aes Sedai would be less underpowered if they had been stationing their forces along the blight from the very beginning. In addition, the Black Ajah are not omniscient; they have their own flaws with communication, and would also be cut off from their leadership back in the Tower. In addition, such a massive act of extermination would as I have said previously alert the Tower that something was up.

 

I mean what would you do if you knew there were going to be over 200 Aes Sedai posted to the border, and you were the other side. You're going to look awful stupid when shadowspawn central waygates & travels hundreds of hundreds of miles south, raids and pillages the south, laughs at your delusions for thinking you know what's up...

 

Shadowspawn have only begun using the Ways consistently recently after Machin Shin has fallen silent. If they did somehow manage to get through then it would alert people to the fact that they were using the ways and result in them being guarded. But all of this is conjecture anyway.

 

 

But, let's say that wouldn't happen *pantomimes gun to own temple, mimics boom, gross sounds

 

Childish insults don't make your arguments look any cleverer, you know.

 

Let's say the dark knows you've posted all those Aes Sedai, who can't travel, who are underpowered, and isolated from any own support. You've made every post along the border a prime target. We know borderlanders are cool for Aes Sedai, so we can assume they'd send forces to back them up. Congratulations, you've just instigated a cycle where thousands and thousands of people will die, because you wanted to feel good about yourself, and it's not even TG time.

 

All of this is conjecture on your part. So let me inject some of my own to even the scales. Stationing the Greens at key areas along the blightborder allows the borderland troops to repond more efficiently to trolloc raids. Villages close to the Blight are better protected, leading to fewer deaths during said raids. Greens accompanying patrols massively reduce casualties from battles and skirmishes, reducing the rate of attrition and allowing the borderlands to steadily build up their forces further. As the Greens grow in experience they become more efficient at their jobs and fewer lives are lost. Battle weaves are developed and passed down. Ditto tactics. Occasionally an Aes Sedai will be killed, but on the whole thousands of lives are saved.

 

And, that's all assuming the other side would politely show up where you want to engage in battle, under circumstances certainly to your favor, and most definitely at the right time of the month as well, for the heck of it.

 

That's true of all battles, not just conflicts with shadowspawn.

 

It's a pipe dream. You know it is.

 

So the best course of action would be to have the Green sit in Tar Valon twiddling their thumbs until TG comes and a massive horde of shadowspawn that they have had no prior experience fighting against crushes them? I'll ask again; if they aren't at the blight then where should they be? Nobody seems to have answered this question yet.

[damandred]

I've stated it numerous times, but the Green's very reason for existing is to fight the Shadow. If they aren't going to be stationed in the Borderlands then they might as well not exist. How else could they stand ready to face the Shadow? How else could they gain practical combat experience apart from fighting alongside the borderlanders? This is particularly important since the White Tower has no idea when the Last Battle will occur, and a force of battle hardened Greens with experience fighting shadowspawn would be invaluable.

 

The length of the blightborder and potential loss of Aes Sedai is a concern. However, it still boils down to the same conclusion; the Green are not performing the duties they were founded for in the first place. They are not fighting the Shadow in any meaningful capacity. They have failed as an Ajah.

The Greens declared reason reason for existence is preparing for and participating in the Last Battle. If they kick butt during it, they've done their job.

 

Now I agree that helping fight the Trollocs near the Blight is the most logical course of action for them to gain experience and also help the locals. But just because they seemingly haven't done in the last few years, doesn't mean they've entirely failed.

 

 

It could be argued that the last battle began when the Dragon proclaimed his rebirth, In the sky above Falme.

If not the LB then certainly the war with the shadow was resumed then.

What have the Greens been doing to prepare for TG since Falme?

If their just waiting to stand in line at TG with all the other AS and other channellers, I would say they have failed as a Ajah as they would be doing the same as most other AS of whatever denomination.

While RJ has been quoted in this thread saying that the Greens are fierce fighters of shadowspawn.I would point out that, that has never been disputed, and they may have individually been the bane of many of shadowspawn. But I would say this again plays to my point, that for a supposed military mined organisation they could have done with a bit of order in their own ranks to place sisters in strategically positioned outposts along the blight, as they must know that fighting together they would be stronger than as individuals.

Has had been said before all Ajahs have not been performing their said duties to any satisfactory degree but, the failure of the fabled battle Ajah to make any concerted effort to even set a watch on their sworn enemy, is to my mind the most glaringly obvious failure of the lot.

[MasterAblar]

It's pretty simple to me: I just wish the Green Ajah, the "Battle Ajah", Aes Sedai were more like the Asha'man, now, and in the past. I'm dissapointed they weren't, but then, the Aes Sedai in general have been rather dissapointing to me, even if there have been attenuating circumstances at times.

[Goramier]

I just spent over 40 minutes describing how Egwene is just like modern liberalism in our culture today...filth and decay destroying us from within and the entire thing was lost because of some sort of browser refresh. Oh well. Just know that Egwene represents pop liberal culture today and how it is literally destroying us from within but society accepts it because they want themselves to be accepted. To bad, it was a great post. Oh well.

[Suttree]

I don't see what the Black has to do with anything; we as the readers know about them, but in-universe the White Tower discounts their existence.

 

That's funny because they have been killing Amrylins and shaping events for some time. Far from denying them it shaped every reason Siuan and Moiraine had for taking things underground in the first place.

 

I suspect many local Lords would be very grateful to have Aes Sedai accompany some of their patrols.

 

and whose to say it never happens? we know Kiruna has done so and out of the third of AS at large surely some Greens are in the Borderlands. Heck in the tPoD prologue there are 13 just with the Borderland rulers. I feel like they could do more but to suggest as some posters have that it doesn't ever happen and that they have zero practical combat experience is laughable.

 

To be clear I do think now that travelling has been found it's a mistake to not integrate AS into banners. We will see in aMoL if that is the case.

[baalsmistress]

If nothing else, having a AS provide gateways for scouts and other small troop movements would be invaluable to any competent general (and my feeling is that most of the actual captains and generals in the borderlands are throughly competent, as are the troops).

 

Even if the AS with the troops is incapable of forming a gateway large enough for moving supplies or mass troop movements, they would still be a logistical boon of unparallelled military importance in a 3rd age force.

[Guest PiotrekS]

 

An interesting article: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/ft/2011/10/we_need_to_talk_about_kevin_author_lionel_shriver_why_literature.html

 

 

*thumbs up

 

Good article. I've wondered if there is even one great book about a flawless main character. Even Frodo took the Ring in the end...

[Mr Ares]

I agree DF plots are the responsibility of all AS, but I thought the Blue being the Ajah most equipt to counter them.

Why?

 

As for there being no point of a Green presence on the Border because the Trollocs only perfurm raids. By your own logic it would be a waste of time having any soldiers there at all.

That doesn't follow at all. The Borderlanders have far greater numbers than the Greens. They are capable of mainitaining an effective defence. The Greens would at best be able to supplement that, and at worst they would spend all their time twiddling their thumbs uselessly. More likely somewhere in between, but it is quite possible that they would feel the large amounts of downtime and how little difference they were able to make to the defence of the Blightborder overall was a waste of their time. And thus there would be no point in permanent stations in the Borderlands, but AS would be able to go to the Borderlands or Blight of their own volition for training purposes.

 

By that logic there's no point in stationing anyone along the blightborder, as damandred points out. The Green Ajah's reason for existance is to fight the Shadow.

To stand ready for TG. Their intended purpose is to fight in a battle that hasn't started yet.

If they aren't there, how can they perform their intended purpose?

By going their when TG comes.

Because of that, it would make sense to give Greens as much experience fighting shadowspawn as possible.

Permanent stations in the Borderlands wouldn't necessarily accomplish that. Either you wait for the Shadowspawn to come to you, or you go to the Shadowspawn. If the former, expect to spend a lot of time waiting (which doesn't help your mission much). If the latter, well, you only need to go to them when you actually want the practice of fighting them - being there all the time isn't necessary. Where should the Greens be if not the Borderlands? Wherever the hell they want to be. There are any number of useful things they could be doing, and guarding the Blightborder is only one of them, not even the most important.

[MasterAblar]

I sort of figured standing ready for the Last Battle, would mean they would be preparing for it in some way. They're supposed to be the Battle Ajah. So it's sort of surprising to see that, as a group, they don't come off any better than the rest of the Aes Sedai, and are far from the level of the Ashaman or Damane.

[baalsmistress]

Perhaps the 3 oahts have limited in many ways the preparation they can do.

 

The oaths would totally prevent internal sparring, any weave that the AS percieved as a weapon could only be used if the AS believed herself or her warder were in mortal danger, or if shadowspawn were present.

 

That really rules out practice and drill ahead of battle.

 

So how would they prepare, given the general distrust that most of the world holds for them? Cadsuane certainly spent her time in the world, hunting down the occasional male channeller that popped up and stayed around long enough to notice. Certainly some have spent time in the borderlands. But the scope for getting battle experience was throughly limited, and experience on an organised scale, as an actual coherent unit seems to have been utterly absent.

 

In the white tower battle, Egwene was unhindered by the oaths, The threat of an A'Dam might not be enough to actually allow an AS to use the OP as a weapon, since the A'Dam does not threaten her life, only her liberty. Perhaps the fact that it would end her life as an AS and start a new life as a damane would be enough, but I suspect that's individual to AS perceptions.

 

So the oath rod shackles and hinders the Greens, just as centuries of AS assumptions of superiority, centuries of percieving no threat save the political machinations of their sisters shackles them. Their experiences over 3000 years have lead them to become a hollow shell of what they once were.

 

Even their existance at all seems intersting. Presumably the Ajah itself is a 3rd age creation. The Age of Legends would have had no need of a "battle ajah" except during it's last 10 years. And during those 10 years, I think that all the AS were involved in the conflict, so thoughts of developping a new Ajah would only have come following the partial sealing of the bore, the taint falling and the prophecies of the kareathon cycle being spoken.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Do you think it's because, with the Asha'men, we have such an outstanding scene of their ability to blow stuff up, at Dumai's Wells?

 

Outstanding, in that it's a major scene where they're heavily featured, and it's emphasized how destructive they can be...And there's not many other scenes where we see them featured so.

 

Although you could take the events where Rand wields Callandor against the Seanchan, too. In that case, on the other hand, you've also got to consider things like Alanna at Emond's Field, or Cadsuane at Shadar Logoth, even Kiruna at the Wells, as well...

 

Point being I think that people would probably, more than likely, feel differently if there were that hardcore scene where Gertrude Green went ballistic and started splattering brains against walls.

 

 

I mean what if the Asha'man hadn't been featured in the aforementioned scene? Would people bitch and complain about them as much, in kind?

[MasterAblar]

Perhaps the 3 oahts have limited in many ways the preparation they can do.

 

The oaths would totally prevent internal sparring, any weave that the AS percieved as a weapon could only be used if the AS believed herself or her warder were in mortal danger, or if shadowspawn were present.

 

That really rules out practice and drill ahead of battle.

 

So how would they prepare, given the general distrust that most of the world holds for them? Cadsuane certainly spent her time in the world, hunting down the occasional male channeller that popped up and stayed around long enough to notice. Certainly some have spent time in the borderlands. But the scope for getting battle experience was throughly limited, and experience on an organised scale, as an actual coherent unit seems to have been utterly absent.

 

In the white tower battle, Egwene was unhindered by the oaths, The threat of an A'Dam might not be enough to actually allow an AS to use the OP as a weapon, since the A'Dam does not threaten her life, only her liberty. Perhaps the fact that it would end her life as an AS and start a new life as a damane would be enough, but I suspect that's individual to AS perceptions.

 

So the oath rod shackles and hinders the Greens, just as centuries of AS assumptions of superiority, centuries of percieving no threat save the political machinations of their sisters shackles them. Their experiences over 3000 years have lead them to become a hollow shell of what they once were.

 

Even their existance at all seems intersting. Presumably the Ajah itself is a 3rd age creation. The Age of Legends would have had no need of a "battle ajah" except during it's last 10 years. And during those 10 years, I think that all the AS were involved in the conflict, so thoughts of developping a new Ajah would only have come following the partial sealing of the bore, the taint falling and the prophecies of the kareathon cycle being spoken.

 

There were no Ajah's in the AoL. At least not the Ajah's as they are today. Ajah's in the AoL would have been temporary groups with a specific task.

 

The Aes Sedai need to feel threatened to use the power as a weapon. I'd say they had no trouble feeling threatened during the attack by the Seanchan.

 

They couldn't spar between themselves, no, but then I doubt the Ashaman or Damane do that anyway. Too dangerous. However that doesn't mean they can't practise otherwise. They can't use the power against another human unless they feel threatened. Well, immobile objects, like say, rocks, are not human.

[baalsmistress]

The oaths

 

1. 
    
   
2. Under the Light, I vow to speak no word that is not true.
   
3. Under the Light, I vow never to make a weapon for one man to kill another.
   
4. Under the Light, I vow not to use the One Power as a weapon, except against Shadowspawn, or in the last defence of my life, the life of my Warder, or that of another Sister.
    
   

 

The 3rd oath would preclude using the one power in any way that the wielder percieved as a weapon, unless facing shadowspawn, or mortal danger was being faced by herself, her warder, or another aes sedai. Not even danger to another Aes Sedai's warder would qualify.

 

Thus it would be possible to practice fireballs and other offensive weaves, if you are percieving them as curiosities. But not if you were percieving them as weapons - which, were you practicing specifically to develop battle skills, you necessarially would view them as.

[MasterAblar]

Do you think it's because, with the Asha'men, we have such an outstanding scene of their ability to blow stuff up, at Dumai's Wells?

 

Outstanding, in that it's a major scene where they're heavily featured, and it's emphasized how destructive they can be...And there's not many other scenes where we see them featured so.

 

I think they gained an infamous reputation at Dumai's Wells, and since then they have never failed to live up to it. In Altara, they perform arguably better than the Damane, considering they had lower numbers, although they did have traveling. Perrin says numerous times how vital Neald and Grady have been to him. Eben and Adley survived confrontations with Sammael in Illian when Rand army reached the forts, although they had keep on the run. Individually, I don't know how they would match up against other channellers, although I suspect they would still be the most lethal. But as a group they have never dissapointed. They go through hellish training, and basically act like perfect soldiers. That's the difference with the Aes Sedai. Despite the fact that they can channel, they have discipline like regular soldiers, as we can see at Dumai's Wells.

 

People don't mess with the Aes Sedai because of the huge influence they've gained over the centuries. In a year, the Ashaman have made it so people don't mess with them either, simply through their reputation as living weapons, although being a male channeller probably helps too.

 

Although you could take the events where Rand wields Callandor against the Seanchan, too. In that case, on the other hand, you've also got to consider things like Alanna at Emond's Field, or Cadsuane at Shadar Logoth, even Kiruna at the Wells, as well...

 

Those are all performances by individual Aes Sedai. Admirable perfomances to be sure, but still not a representation of how the Green Ajah would perform as a whole.

 

Point being I think that people would probably, more than likely, feel differently if there were that hardcore scene where Gertrude Green went ballistic and started splattering brains against walls.

 

We've already had good performances from individual greens, notably Cadsuane. It's not the Ashaman's, rather gruesome, method of killing that is important, it's their efficiency in combat as a group. They're like machines.

 

I mean what if the Asha'man hadn't been featured in the aforementioned scene? Would people bitch and complain about them as much, in kind?

 

I don't think so. It's true that the only purpose the Ashaman have is to be living weapons, but they're also a very new channeling group. In a way, what's strange is that they're so efficient and destructive in battle. But I guess that just goes to show how hell-like their training must be.

[MasterAblar]

The oaths

 

1. 
    
   
2. Under the Light, I vow to speak no word that is not true.
   
3. Under the Light, I vow never to make a weapon for one man to kill another.
   
4. Under the Light, I vow not to use the One Power as a weapon, except against Shadowspawn, or in the last defence of my life, the life of my Warder, or that of another Sister.
    
   

 

The 3rd oath would preclude using the one power in any way that the wielder percieved as a weapon, unless facing shadowspawn, or mortal danger was being faced by herself, her warder, or another aes sedai. Not even danger to another Aes Sedai's warder would qualify.

 

Thus it would be possible to practice fireballs and other offensive weaves, if you are percieving them as curiosities. But not if you were percieving them as weapons - which, were you practicing specifically to develop battle skills, you necessarially would view them as.

 

Sure looks that way. I guess the only way for them to get better at fighting would be to go fight along the blight border somehow.

 

Still, even if they couldn't practice, that doesn't change the fact that they clearly are not ready for the Last Battle, and are not as dangerous fighters as they thought they were.

[David Selig]

I am pretty sure they can train with the oaths, they consider using the One Power as a weapon only when they are using it against people. Throwing fireballs and lightnings at rocks or trees during training would surely be OK.