Demandred

[Dreggs Morlock]

I do not have LoC handy, but isn't the Blight surrounding the Bore cold? I seem to remember Demandred commenting on this while he was watching the blacksmiths make Fade Blades, but I could be just imagining things.

 

If so, then he might have brought the cloak along to keep warm while waiting to see the DO, and it has nothing to do with where Demo was working on his plans.

[Terez]

I do not have LoC handy, but isn't the Blight surrounding the Bore cold?

It's in the quote I gave above.

[mackoY-kun]

The Blight just above the borderlands is "warm". (see 1sr book when Rand and co enter it). But nearer the Polar Ice Caps it is cold. Demandred was in the slopes of Thakandar and it was cold, but not much. He's breath misted, but only just so.

[Terez]

In what was now called the Age of Legends, this had been an idyllic island in a cool sea, a favorite of those who enjoyed the rustic. Despite the steam it was bitter cold, now; he did not allow himself to feel it, but instinct made him pull his fur-lined velvet cloak closer. Feathery mist marked his breath, barely visible before the air drank it. A few hundred leagues north the world was pure ice, but Thakan’dar was always dry as any desert, though always wrapped in winter.

[MasterAblar]

If Demandred is active in Murandy, it's only been since the what? 8th book? And the BT started in the 6th. So what has he been doing in the first five?

[Dreggs Morlock]

In what was now called the Age of Legends, this had been an idyllic island in a cool sea, a favorite of those who enjoyed the rustic. Despite the steam it was bitter cold, now; he did not allow himself to feel it, but instinct made him pull his fur-lined velvet cloak closer. Feathery mist marked his breath, barely visible before the air drank it. A few hundred leagues north the world was pure ice, but Thakan’dar was always dry as any desert, though always wrapped in winter.

 

 

Hehe... that is called "using the hammer" when making a point.

 

The fact is, what Demandred was wearing for this scene plays no role in clues to where he is set himself up at. He could have been wearing speedos up until he decided to go see the DO, and then dressed appropriately for the weather there (knowing he might not get in right away, and it was "bitter cold" outside the cave).

[Terez]

Hehe... that is called "using the hammer" when making a point.

I tried to be diplomatic about it first.

[Dreggs Morlock]

I still think he was wearing Speedos before he went to see the DO.

[Lisa Campbell]

Back to topic, I'm leaning towards Demandred setting up shop in Murandy. I don't know where he was prior, but I do remember that when Talmanes caught up with Mat in Altara and explained the deal made between the Band and Roedran, and that he thought Roedran was ready to turn against the Band.

[Dreggs Morlock]

He was, but a real "king" would have very selfish reasons for doing the same thing. Having created a fictitious "evil army" to rally against, why not then destroy said army to remove any proof that he himself was behind it?

 

Again, I do think it is likely that Demandred is behind all this. I am just not convinced this is the army Demandred is ready to unleash on the forces of light.

 

Though... reading more of the interviews with Brandon and Jordan, mixed with a lot of the theories here... part of the last battle might just be fought near Camelyn, and if that is the case, Demandred's army here would be very well placed indeed.

[chitown87]

Nice of Demandred to unite a Murandian army just in time to fight against the shadow in TG. Unless, of course, you believe he either compelled the entire army, or that an army of human wouldn't run screaming the second you tried to united them with a trolloc horde against fellow humans...

This has bugged me for a long time. I'd be interested in seeing what some of the more knowledgable posters say about this. I just find it hard to believe that even a forsaken could gather an army of 100,000+ darkfriends, especially from a single country.

[Louise]

I suppose it is possible. (though I'm not entirely convinced that Demandred IS Roedran)

Just look at what Rahvin did in Andor. It's not on the same scale I know, but he's potentially had alot more time to work on it than Rahvin did.

[Durinax]

Nice of Demandred to unite a Murandian army just in time to fight against the shadow in TG. Unless, of course, you believe he either compelled the entire army, or that an army of human wouldn't run screaming the second you tried to united them with a trolloc horde against fellow humans...

This has bugged me for a long time. I'd be interested in seeing what some of the more knowledgable posters say about this. I just find it hard to believe that even a forsaken could gather an army of 100,000+ darkfriends, especially from a single country.

if you read the whole thread you will find many very plausible arguments that there could be 0 darkfriends among the armies yet still mobilize them against the light

[chitown87]

Nice of Demandred to unite a Murandian army just in time to fight against the shadow in TG. Unless, of course, you believe he either compelled the entire army, or that an army of human wouldn't run screaming the second you tried to united them with a trolloc horde against fellow humans...

This has bugged me for a long time. I'd be interested in seeing what some of the more knowledgable posters say about this. I just find it hard to believe that even a forsaken could gather an army of 100,000+ darkfriends, especially from a single country.

if you read the whole thread you will find many very plausible arguments that there could be 0 darkfriends among the armies yet still mobilize them against the light

I read most of it and skimmed some. Must have missed them. What page?

[Terez]

As for the Murandians, they hate the Andorans, and they probably hate the Band now too.

[Leyrann]

(translation: He will use them in the Battle of Caemlyn)

[tzdrazil]

So many things stand out as I've been re-reading the series for the umpteenth time, expecially now that I've found this forum and some of the various theories out there.

 

One rumor that stands out in CoT, A Cluster of Rosebuds, is:

"It seems Suroth might have made an alliance with some king"..."At least, there's considerable talk of some powerful new ally."..."Most of the settlers seem to have been sent east"..."And a great many soldiers, too...Everything says they're going to fall on Illian like a hammer."

 

This conversation between Thom and Julian link this alliance and the shifting of soldiers from North to East. North of Ebu Dar is Gheldan and Murandy, East is Illian. Suroth takes her orders from Semirhage, and the only Kings left are either in the Borderlands or Murandy (Alsalam is suggested dead in battle with the Seanchan) so it leave a very short list of candidates. I think this supports the theory of where Demandred has his influence.

 

Thoughts?

[mackoY-kun]

ToM spoiler:

Alsalam is shown to be alive and kicking. He was kingnapped by Aes Sedai and was being transported back to the WT. Rand had Cadsuane procure him from the said group.

 

 

That power new ally might or might not be Masame, he did have dealings with the Seanchan not mere rumors. Anyway it could be anybody she had been dealing with, but the strongest contender is Masame at the time that it circulated as rumor.

[mbuehner]

Nice of Demandred to unite a Murandian army just in time to fight against the shadow in TG. Unless, of course, you believe he either compelled the entire army, or that an army of human wouldn't run screaming the second you tried to united them with a trolloc horde against fellow humans...

This has bugged me for a long time. I'd be interested in seeing what some of the more knowledgable posters say about this. I just find it hard to believe that even a forsaken could gather an army of 100,000+ darkfriends, especially from a single country.

if you read the whole thread you will find many very plausible arguments that there could be 0 darkfriends among the armies yet still mobilize them against the light

 

Mobilizing is believable. Fighting, not so much.

 

The most plausible use a Murandian army would have would be to invade Andor from the South, which would pull troops from Caemlyn before the trollocs arrived. That apparently didn't happen and there isn't time for it to happen now. The only way for Murandy to affect the war would now be to walk through a gateway and attack fellow humans in the rear as they fight trolloc hordes. Hatred is one thing, but nobody hates their neighbor enough to stab them in the back while they try to hold off the end of the world. In that scenario it seems to me the Murandians walk through the gateway and promptly attack the Trollocs.

 

One thought though- perhaps the Crystal Throne or some other ter'angreal was procured that can influence large numbers of people.

[yoniy0]

They don't have to know the Last Battle is upon them. They could be used to raid any number of places, if they were told Rand was a false Dragon (as so many believed) and were kept from seeing Shadowspawn. For that matter, we never saw a single trolloc in Caemlyn. The fires could just as easily have been the work of a Murandian horde, the spear point of the impeding trolloc invasion (again, without their knowledge). Actually, it makes sense to first establish a perimeter around the Waygate so the trollocs could not be easily repelled.

[Dreggs Morlock]

At first, thinking of Demandred using the Murandian army to attack Caemlyn right before hundreds of thousands of trollocs pour out of the waygate inside the city fired up my imagination. But then, I considered what the Murandian army would do in that situation... and came to one conclusion: they would stop fighting the Andors and start fighting the trollocs. No matter how you try to use these 2 armies in concert (the trollocs and the Murandian army), you end up with your 2 armies fighting each other.

 

If the Murandians are under Demandred's control, I think he has other plans, unless there is an element of control or something else we have not been told.

[Leyrann]

But what if he, after creating a "safe" (for Trollocs) place around the waygate, sends the Murandians to somewhere else (without them seeing the Trollocs), maybe to fight the Band, while the Trollocs pour out. And then, if he defeats the Band, he can even send the Murandians to raid Andor, now that the army is at FoM.

[Finnssss22]

At first, thinking of Demandred using the Murandian army to attack Caemlyn right before hundreds of thousands of trollocs pour out of the waygate inside the city fired up my imagination. But then, I considered what the Murandian army would do in that situation... and came to one conclusion: they would stop fighting the Andors and start fighting the trollocs. No matter how you try to use these 2 armies in concert (the trollocs and the Murandian army), you end up with your 2 armies fighting each other.

 

If the Murandians are under Demandred's control, I think he has other plans, unless there is an element of control or something else we have not been told.

 

 

We have been told more or less though imo.

Go back to what Sammy, Be'lal and Rahvin were doing to Illian, Tear and Caemlyn. Recall those cities being converted and slowly losing their own wills.

[Durinax]

But what if he, after creating a "safe" (for Trollocs) place around the waygate, sends the Murandians to somewhere else (without them seeing the Trollocs), maybe to fight the Band, while the Trollocs pour out. And then, if he defeats the Band, he can even send the Murandians to raid Andor, now that the army is at FoM.

actually for all we know the many bands of mercenaries around the city are actually murandians, and could theoretically attack the band while their being mobilized. but since there are so many forces outside the city, the murandians could easily be a distraction force to prevent forces from going into the city, since as we know andor has a lack of forces (overall) due to the wars and gaebril

[Leyrann]

Well, Andor has at least something like 15 000 soldiers. Maybe a lot more.