The Fourth Ta'veren

[DemandredFO]

I prefer the stupidity induction field that someone said was around Egwene. I would put her killing Mesaana down to Perrin and the dreamspike being there. She doesn't have good interpersonal skills, she's just a bully who for some inexplicable reason hasn't been called out. She gets off on bullying Nyneave, but Gawyn, I think his only real crime is that he loves her and she wants slaves not equals.

[Cainam]

Siuan has the ability to see ta'veren ( as is mentioned in ToM when ran speaks with egg. so obviously she is not otherwise Siuan would mention this.

[Vambram]

Sheesh, rude much. Those cocky rolling eyes add nothing to conversation or debate.

 

 

Obviously I don't really believe Egwene is ta'veren as Jordan made only the main trio ta'veren. More or less, I aim at a discussion of why she isn't ta'veren, and why she's able to do everything she is. I believe the reason so many people from the Two Rivers are "special" or "gifted" is because Rand is uber-ta'veren and controls their threads somehow. That may also interfere with other characters beyond the Two Rivers whom he meets, such as Elayne, Min, and Avienda, especially as he has sex with all of them and bonds them.

 

Your post where you said,

I. am. Robert. Jordan

 

Detracted greatly from this discussion... far more than my eye rolls at you could have ever possibly done.

[CaseyWoL]

Seriously though I had never noticed to what extent Egwene is lucky. But you guys have to consider she was made Damane earlier in the series, and later tortured by Elaida for several chapters in the tower. She made her way to glory because she had built up the necessary character to handle it. Add to that timing and smarts.

[XXX]

Egwene has be written to be the Batman to Rand's Superman....just like how Batman is superior to the average folk without any super powers like Superman. Where the character has failed is that while Batman takes a lifetime to become the ultimate crime fighter, Egwene takes a very short time with not much training. Also while Batman has a strong motivation for what he does ie the killing of his parents, Egwene has no motivation to feel devotion to the Aes Sedai..a bungling useless organization during the time she has known it.

[SylvanFox]

As far as Egwene outsmarting the other AS, that could work, since most of them aren't all that bright. Yes, they do a lot of political maneuvering, but I think the series has repeatedly shown us that they tend to do this by bullying, and don't have a clue what to do when someone doesn't respond to such stock methods as "It is dangerous to anger Aes Sedai." Once they realize that someone has not responded to this, they cave.

 

Also, it's possible Egwene picked up some of her leadership ideas from the Wise Ones. We know they were training her in T'A'R, but we don't know for sure that they taught her nothing else. She was learning Aiel culture as well. She managed to fit in, but then again, so did Moiraine. Because they were both supposedly Aes Sedai. IMO, the series shows the Wise Ones to be much better leaders than the AS. For one thing, they base "rank" (if you can call it that) on individual leadership ability and wisdom, rather than on strength in the OP. Egwene may have picked a lot up from them. Not to mention, she was an AS-like bully at first, always trying to get Rand in line, but after that instance with Nynaeve in T'A'R she reflects on how calm and rational speech worked better than yelling ever did.

 

Siuan's training also helps to explain some of her too-slick actions, especially early in her career as Amyrlin. As for the tower AS, it's possible that the impression she made would have been much less if there had been, say, 30 candidates for Amyrlin. As it was, there was only her, Elaida, or... further division in the Tower? No one but Black Ajah would have wanted that, so the choices were Egwene and Elaida...

 

And it's supposed to be hard for her to convince them? Don't forget, Elaida did a lot of this convincing herself. When Ferana and the others questioned Eg, they may have been testing her to see if she had at least some modicum of reason, more than Elaida. That wouldn't take much.

 

Still, STILL... Lumped in with all the other things she's good at makes it pretty hard to swallow. The only person I know who's that damn good at EVERYTHING is my brother, who is great at violin, chess, singing, dancing, nearly every sport, all studies, learning languages, acting, mathematics, science, and everything else he's ever decided he wanted to do. Opposite of me, I screw up everything I try. People like that are rare, but I suppose Egwene could be one.

 

It's still not easy to swallow. RJ should have made her ta'veren.

[JenniferL]

Three pages and no one has quoted the FAQ? You wound me, good sirs.

 

http://wotfaq.dragonmount.com/node/187

[Majsju]

Three pages and no one has quoted the FAQ? You wound me, good sirs.

 

http://wotfaq.dragonmount.com/node/187

 

No, but instead i quoted the exact same thing from the blog that you used for that entry. I win.

[JenniferL]

Yes, yes. But I'm quite pleased with that entry and I think everyone should read it. Twice even.

[Superhal]

Logically, we can assume:

 

1. It is somebody that Siuan hasn't met yet, and quite possibly Min as well.

2. It is somebody who is able to affect chance or decision-making in their immediate vicinity.

3. After being affected by #2, the other person will feel dizzy or weak.

4. They can attract other people to themselves if needed.

 

Possible candidates:

1. Someone in Rand's current party (Avila, perhaps).

2. One of the Asha'man except Taim.

3. One of the Five Great Captains except Gareth Byrne and Angelmar Jagad.

4. Someone who isn't born yet (e.g. Elayne's children.)

5. One of the Aiel (none of them were seen by Siuan outside of TAR, afaik.)

6. One of the Seanchan.

7. King Darlin.

 

People we can eliminate:

1. Logain

2. All the Aes Sedai and Warders, including Brigette.

3. Wise women and seafolk that Siuan met in TAR.

4. One of Mat's current party except Olver.

 

My gut feelings:

1. Gaul: he attracted Perrin to him when he was caged, and survived some amazingly suicidal situations (Dumai Wells, Battle of Two Rivers, Rescue of Faile, etc.) Also, he seems to have some sort of ta'varen-like relationship with Bain and Chiad.

2. Olver: his actions in ToM seemed to be amazingly ta'varen-like, e.g. finding the note at the perfect time, having the information Mat needed to get into the Tower of Ghenji, etc. Also, he seems to exert a certain amount of pull on both males and females around him.

3. Rodel Ituralde: The battle of Fal Moran seemed very ta'varen-like to me, particularly the actions of Yoeli.

[Stitch]

I would suggest Cadsuane, Fortuona and Moraine (post rescue) are the most likely candidates for a forth (female) Ta'veren

[CaseyWoL]

Logically, we can assume:

 

1. It is somebody that Siuan hasn't met yet, and quite possibly Min as well.

2. It is somebody who is able to affect chance or decision-making in their immediate vicinity.

3. After being affected by #2, the other person will feel dizzy or weak.

4. They can attract other people to themselves if needed.

 

Possible candidates:

1. Someone in Rand's current party (Avila, perhaps).

2. One of the Asha'man except Taim.

3. One of the Five Great Captains except Gareth Byrne and Angelmar Jagad.

4. Someone who isn't born yet (e.g. Elayne's children.)

5. One of the Aiel (none of them were seen by Siuan outside of TAR, afaik.)

6. One of the Seanchan.

7. King Darlin.

 

People we can eliminate:

1. Logain

2. All the Aes Sedai and Warders, including Brigette.

3. Wise women and seafolk that Siuan met in TAR.

4. One of Mat's current party except Olver.

 

My gut feelings:

1. Gaul: he attracted Perrin to him when he was caged, and survived some amazingly suicidal situations (Dumai Wells, Battle of Two Rivers, Rescue of Faile, etc.) Also, he seems to have some sort of ta'varen-like relationship with Bain and Chiad.

2. Olver: his actions in ToM seemed to be amazingly ta'varen-like, e.g. finding the note at the perfect time, having the information Mat needed to get into the Tower of Ghenji, etc. Also, he seems to exert a certain amount of pull on both males and females around him.

3. Rodel Ituralde: The battle of Fal Moran seemed very ta'varen-like to me, particularly the actions of Yoeli.

 

 

 

I think you guys might be looking into this a little too much. Things have to happen in the story for it to be pushed forward. If we assume Olver is Ta'veren because he found a letter then that opens the door for way too many possibilities. Gaul's relationship with Bain and Chiad may only be foreshadowing a future relationship. Maybe they want to be his wives.

 

If RJ intended for there to be more than three Ta'veren in the series it would have revealed at least a fourth by now.

[Thor]

There are numerous aes sedai/channelers with the ability to see tavereness. If any of Elayne/Egwene/Nynaeve/whoever was a ta'varen, they would have been noticed immediately.

[Stitch]

Not if it is a new thing (since they are temporary)... which is why I consider Moraine a distinct possibility.

 

Do we really NEED a new one though? Personally I think there are too many running around as it is x.x

[Jemlin]

Tuon is taver'en.

 

That's how she resisted Rand's will =]

 

She's not a major character. She is very influential. She seems to resist some of Mat's taveren-ness.

 

I vote her. =]

[True Source Creator]

^

She's from Seanchan, so she must be the reincarnation of Artur Hawking.

 

"Why has this been done to me? Why have I been put into this body?" - Aran'gar, 'Lord of Chaos' prologue