Rand and Lanfear's Soul Connection

[navahgar]

{A disclaimer to begin with: I haven't been on these boards in a few months, and, although I tried to leaf through and check, it's possible this has been discussed ad nauseum already.}

 

I was randomly re-reading parts of The Shadow Rising (my favorite book in the series) today and I noticed something that reminded me of the end of Towers of Midnight, and led me to question the whole connection between Lews Therin/Dragon/Rand and Mierin/Lanfear/Cyndane. At the end of Towers of Midnight Rand Sedai stumbles upon Cyndane in his dream. Obviously her face is different, but he recognizes her:

 

She was weeping now, her figure shaking and trembling. Rand knelt beside her, the candle flickering from his motion. How had this woman gotten into his dream? Was she someone real, or was this a creation of his mind? He laid a hand on her shoulder.

She glanced toward him, eyes red, face a mask of pain, tears dripping from her chin. "Please," she pled, "Please. He has me."

"Who are you?"

"You know me," she whispered, taking his hand, clinging to it. "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. He has me. He flays my soul anew each eve. Oh, please! Let it stop." The tears flowed more freely.

"I don't know you, " Rand said. "I ..."

"Those eyes. Those beautiful, terrible eyes. Rand gasped, releasing her hand. The face was different. But he did know that soul. "Mierin? You're dead. I saw you die!"

 

...

 

That had been Mierin Eronaile, a woman he had once called the Lady Selene.

A woman most people know by the name she'd taken upon herself. Lanfear.

 

From what I remember of the discussion on this, obviously pivotal, scene, most people seem to be focused on the whys and wherefores of Lanfear appearing in Rand's dream and whether her remorse is genuine. Instead I'd like to focus on the fact that Rand apparently recognizes her soul. I think I saw somewhere that someone might have thought this had to do with a compulsion or something like that, but I'd like to suggest something deeper. At no other point in the series (to my recollection) has Rand ever recognized anyone in a new body as being the same person he had known in a previous body (including Lanfear who has disguised herself as Selene and Keille). This can be explained partially by Rand spending most of the series in a mental block, not recognizing or acknowledging his own personality. However, after he has the epiphany at Dragonmount, I believe that something has changed and he has now awoken to a full understanding of himself and his role. It is difficult to tell whether Rand Sedai is recognizing old souls reborn throughout Towers of Midnight, because it is not until the epilogue that we see his perspective. Even so, I would argue that he does not. Why? because I feel like it.

 

So if Mierin's is the only soul he recognizes, what does that mean. This is where the scene I was reading from The Shadow Rising comes in:

 

"I cannot trust you fully, Lews Therin. Not yet." She came closer, and he considered simply seizing her. He was bigger and stronger by far - and blocked as he was, she could wrap him up with the Power like a kitten tangled in a ball of string. "Not with that, certainly," she added, grimacing at Callandor. "There are only two more powerful that a man can use. One at least, I know, still exists. No, Lews Therin. I will not trust you yet with that."

"Stop calling me that," he growled. "My name is Rand. Rand al'Thor."

"You are Lews Therin Telamon. Oh, physically, nothing is the same except your height, but I would know who is behind those eyes even if I'd found you in your cradle."

 

If Lanfear is to be believed (which in this instance I will) then she also is able to recognize Lews Therin's soul, even though it is in a different body. This is a pretty unique and amazing trait, since even Ishamael couldn't tell whether Rand was the Dragon until the end of Eye of the World, and for large parts of that book thought it might be Mat or Perrin.

 

So Mierin recognizes Lews Therin, even in a new body, and Lews Therin recognizes Mierin, even in a new body. It appears that they have some ethereal connection that no one else does in the entire world.* This new factor added to list of things that connect them:

 

(1)she is apparently the strongest possible female channeller and he is apparently the strongest possible male channeller,

(2)they are linked in the dark prophecy from The Great Hunt,

(3)they were lovers before her initial descent into darkness,

(4)she is the one that drilled the bore into the Dark One's prison and he is the one that sealed the bore,

(5)other things I can't think of off the top of my head, and

(6)they recognize each other at a real soulful level.

 

Taking all those factors into consideration, I don't know what to conclude. Are they two the most important figures in this struggle? If so, what about Moridin? Are they actually 'supposed' to be together and Ilyena actually just screwed it up for everyone? Is she maybe the counterpoint to the Dragon, as saidar is the counterpoint to saidin and only through both working together can the Dark One be actually defeated? That last one is the one that most intrigues me. There are parallels between saidin, saidar, and the True Power on one hand, and Lews Therin, Mierin, and Moridin on the other.

 

I've rambled and I've rumbled and I haven't come to any real discrete conclusions. I hope the more astute minds on here can help me out and shed some more light on this, or alternatively tell me I'm a mentalist.

 

* I say noone else has that kind of connection, but Birgitte and Gaidal Cain might. They seem to be connected in every birth to each other. The difference there is that when both are born normally, neither actually recognizes that connection. It's only when they're Heroes of the Horn that they know about the connection. So I don't think it counts as the same thing. The unique thing about the Dragon and the Lanfear is that they recognize each others souls while they're alive.

[spoke]

I think this is probably related to Lews Therin's ability to recognize souls around him (re-read the prologue of TEOTW), he sensed that there was no one around when he committed suicide. It may be related.

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

I wonder if his new effect on Darkfriends works on Forsaken and in dreams. It seemed interesting to me that she had no visceral reaction to his Light awesomeness at all.

 

Too bad Brandon said he's going to RAFO just about everything on Mierin till AMoL. I wonder if he would answer whether we'll get a Cyndane POV, since it's a given that her storyline will be dealt with. Even a single POV from her would probably immediately give away her intentions (although, on the other hand, RJ was always good about telling us none of the juicy bits we most wanted to know when he wrote Shadow POVs).

 

In the meantime, I'd love it if there were more speculation and theories here, but lots of folks consider the premise that Mierin is not evil to be a nonstarter, and if she is evil then this scene is just setup for another cookie-cutter Forsaken plot. You'll forgive me if I hope we get something less redundant and dull for her in AMoL.

 

To answer your question, I do like the idea of WoT people recognizing one another by the soul alone. If it's doable at all, people like Rand and Mierin would be likely candidates. Rand did come to recognize his own soul this way over the course of the series. Perhaps he can do the same with others. But if so, whom?

 

Mierin is a special case. In lieu of behind-the-scenes shenanigans, Lanfear had the same body as Mierin did. She was the exact same person alive in the Age of Legends, not a reborn version of herself. Nor is Cyndane a reborn version of her soul. It's a transmigration, a continuation of the same Mierin in a new body. That might be significant; Rand's ability might be limited to just those people who were alive in the AoL. That in turn is limited to the living Forsaken. But he could look at Demandred or Moghedien and recognize them simply by their bodies, because of his memory. Only Cyndane and Moridin are transmigrated versions of their original selves.

 

The possibility that this is some kind of special bond between the soul of the Dragon and the soul of Mierin Eronaile is less likely, I think, but I'd personally find it more satisfying. If it is a Mierin-specific thing, then I've been right all these years that there's more to her than just jealousy and conceit. But if it's not a Mierin-specific thing, anything is possible.

 

As for what kind of special connection the two of them might share, a la Birgitte and GC, an obvious possibility comes to mind. She might be the one fated to create the Bore endlessly again and again through the turnings of the Wheel. Rand is definitely fated to be the Dragon, healing the Bore and otherwise repelling the Dark One. It's possible that the two of them are counterparts that way, tied together forever in the common destiny of being the people who turn the Wheel. In a similar sense, they are both the most powerful channeler alive of their respective sexes, sort of the "best of the best" in terms of ability and potential.

 

On the other hand, I doubt that Mierin and Rand were "supposed" to be together and Ilyena somehow ruined everything. It's possible, but it wouldn't be consistent with my reading of RJ's style. Certainly her showing up changed Mierin's destiny, and Mierin in turn changed the world's destiny, but since the Pattern has a script to follow, those events may simply have been the Whee's own efforts to make sure that the Second Age turned out the way it was supposed to turn out. It makes me wonder if Mierin is and Ilyena was ta'veren. Herid posted this RJ quote recently, which got me thinking:

 

RJ's blog 5 October 2005 "YET ANOTHER, IT SEEMS"

 

- The Wheel creates ta’veren at need, making someone who is already alive one. You aren’t born ta’veren. Can you imagine being around a ta’veren who is teething?

It would be possible for a Darkfriend or Forsaken to be made ta’veren, but it seems unlikely. Ta’veren are part of the Wheel’s self-correcting mechanism. When the Pattern seems to be drifting too quickly, and especially if it is in the wrong direction, one or more ta’veren are created. I can’t really see how making a Darkfriend or Forsaken ta’veren would help with correcting the drift of the Pattern. Ta’veren can oppose one another, when their conflict is what the Wheel “sees” as the necessary corrective.

So, on one hand, Forsaken (or those who will become Forsaken) aren't likely to become ta'veren, but on the other hand ta'veren can oppose each other in a way that no one else can. (That's why I'm still surprised that Egwene is not ta'veren, especially given events of late, such as her relative immunity to Rand when everyone else around her was immobilized.) If Mierin is ta'veren, then Rand's ability to recognize her by her soul might have something to do with that.

 

Rand's POVs were withheld from us on purpose, to give us an outside view of Rand in ToM. Well played, Brandon.

[Kahsm]

In before Egwene bashing starts.

 

But on topic, this is an interesting and pretty well thought out idea. I'm personally of the mind that her pleas are legit, Moggy made the mind traps sound quite horrible. You don't need to think Lanfear is of the light to agree, I don't, just that she has no one else to turn to than LTT.

 

Just to maybe add some evidence of the phenomenon. Pre-enlightenment, before Rand accepted his LTT side, LTT flipped out over Taim. _IF_ Taim, or whatever soul is in his body, is from the AoL, that could be another soul-soul recognition.

[bsmnt23]

Am I alone in thinking that, if the dream is real, and she is the soul of Mierin or Lanfear calling out for redemption, and she is being tortured every night, and my opinion is...Good? I mean, she's a Forsaken. She signed on to the team willingly, she gets tortured on a regular basis, so Why ask "why"? It's one of those bad things that happen to bad people. Just kick back and enjoy their just desserts, I say, especialy when they are as bad as Lanfear and the rest of her ilk.

[WhiskyJack]

Rand can recognize souls. He did that with Ishmael.

[mb]

Part of Rand's recognition might have been due to his Telaranrhiod encounter with another resurrected Forsaken. Gathering Storm.

 

Another part might have been due to she being a skilled Dreamwalker; perhaps she sending like a mental picture to his mind.

[WhiskyJack]

Part of Rand's recognition might have been due to his Telaranrhiod encounter with another resurrected Forsaken. Gathering Storm.

 

Another part might have been due to she being a skilled Dreamwalker; perhaps she sending like a mental picture to his mind.

 

 

You mean dream encounter?

[mb]

Actually I do/did mean Telaranrhiod.

I take that the scene happened in Telaranrhiod, not in a regular dream.

[Suttree]

Certainly her showing up changed Mierin's destiny, and Mierin in turn changed the world's destiny

 

LTT and Lanfear were only together for a short time. This was a number of years before the drilling of the bore. He left her before Ilyena was in the picture because she loved the prestige of LTT more than the man himself and saw him as a path to power. LTT and Ilyena were not married until some fifty years after the drilling of the bore. So LTT and Lanfear had not been together for 50+ years at that point and this is after dating only for a "short time". Not quite sure how Lanfear could have been delusional enough to blame Ilyena under those circumstances.

[Ala Rubra]

Certainly her showing up changed Mierin's destiny, and Mierin in turn changed the world's destiny

 

LTT and Lanfear were only together for a short time. This was a number of years before the drilling of the bore. He left her before Ilyena was in the picture because she loved the prestige of LTT more than the man himself and saw him as a path to power. LTT and Ilyena were not married until some fifty years after the drilling of the bore. So LTT and Lanfear had not been together for 50+ years at that point and this is after dating only for a "short time". Not quite sure how Lanfear could have been delusional enough to blame Ilyena under those circumstances.

 

A short time? Can you refresh my memory on where that was stated, because all I remember was Rand remembering that they were lovers while they were just discovering the OP, or somesuch.

[Suttree]

Certainly her showing up changed Mierin's destiny, and Mierin in turn changed the world's destiny

 

LTT and Lanfear were only together for a short time. This was a number of years before the drilling of the bore. He left her before Ilyena was in the picture because she loved the prestige of LTT more than the man himself and saw him as a path to power. LTT and Ilyena were not married until some fifty years after the drilling of the bore. So LTT and Lanfear had not been together for 50+ years at that point and this is after dating only for a "short time". Not quite sure how Lanfear could have been delusional enough to blame Ilyena under those circumstances.

 

A short time? Can you refresh my memory on where that was stated, because all I remember was Rand remembering that they were lovers while they were just discovering the OP, or somesuch.

 

BWB

 

It is certain that Lews Therin and Mierin were involved with one another for a short time, and that Lews Therin broke off the relationship some years before the drilling of the Bore, partly because she loved her association with the great Lews Therin more than she loved the man, and partly because she saw him as a path to power for herself.

[Kahsm]

Am I alone in thinking that, if the dream is real, and she is the soul of Mierin or Lanfear calling out for redemption, and she is being tortured every night, and my opinion is...Good? I mean, she's a Forsaken. She signed on to the team willingly, she gets tortured on a regular basis, so Why ask "why"? It's one of those bad things that happen to bad people. Just kick back and enjoy their just desserts, I say, especialy when they are as bad as Lanfear and the rest of her ilk.

 

"No one has been in the shadow so long as they cannot return to the light"

 

I'm sure you're not alone, but I'm fairly sure Rand will run off to try saving her. And maybe he should, who could know more about the bore?

[Manscher]

Regarding Rands ability to see a person soul, there is the case of him meeting Siuan in The White Tower before his audience in The Hall. He walks straight up to her and recognize her. Considering how often throughout the book it's been stated that nobody is able to recognize Siuan after her stilling, it can be considered another proof of his ability to see and read the soul bound to a body.

[herid]

{A disclaimer to begin with: I haven't been on these boards in a few months, and, although I tried to leaf through and check, it's possible this has been discussed ad nauseum already.}

 

I was randomly re-reading parts of The Shadow Rising (my favorite book in the series) today and I noticed something that reminded me of the end of Towers of Midnight, and led me to question the whole connection between Lews Therin/Dragon/Rand and Mierin/Lanfear/Cyndane. At the end of Towers of Midnight Rand Sedai stumbles upon Cyndane in his dream. Obviously her face is different, but he recognizes her:

 

She was weeping now, her figure shaking and trembling. Rand knelt beside her, the candle flickering from his motion. How had this woman gotten into his dream? Was she someone real, or was this a creation of his mind? He laid a hand on her shoulder.

She glanced toward him, eyes red, face a mask of pain, tears dripping from her chin. "Please," she pled, "Please. He has me."

"Who are you?"

"You know me," she whispered, taking his hand, clinging to it. "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. He has me. He flays my soul anew each eve. Oh, please! Let it stop." The tears flowed more freely.

"I don't know you, " Rand said. "I ..."

"Those eyes. Those beautiful, terrible eyes. Rand gasped, releasing her hand. The face was different. But he did know that soul. "Mierin? You're dead. I saw you die!"

 

...

 

That had been Mierin Eronaile, a woman he had once called the Lady Selene.

A woman most people know by the name she'd taken upon herself. Lanfear.

 

From what I remember of the discussion on this, obviously pivotal, scene, most people seem to be focused on the whys and wherefores of Lanfear appearing in Rand's dream and whether her remorse is genuine.

I'm quite sure Lanfear's remorse is not genuine and she is in on the attempt to trap Rand willingly. Her attitude towards Rand after she found out about him and Avi is made VERY clear both in her old and her new body (her PoV at the cleansing). She is quite obsessed with killing him to the point of considering violating Moridin's command not to do so even though Moridin has her mindtrap (KoD, Ch 3). SH mentions to Graendal that the task of going after Rand has been given to another which pretty clearly means Lanfear/Cyndane. Lastly, there is the Dark prophecy from TGH which says that Rand will serve Lanfear, then die but serve still. none of this points to Lanfear being an unwilling participant in the scheme.

 

 

Instead I'd like to focus on the fact that Rand apparently recognizes her soul. I think I saw somewhere that someone might have thought this had to do with a compulsion or something like that, but I'd like to suggest something deeper. At no other point in the series (to my recollection) has Rand ever recognized anyone in a new body as being the same person he had known in a previous body (including Lanfear who has disguised herself as Selene and Keille). This can be explained partially by Rand spending most of the series in a mental block, not recognizing or acknowledging his own personality.

Exactly. And this is the most likely explanation IMO. The ability to recognize souls doesn't manifest itself in Rand until LTT surfaces significantly in him. But after that there are clues that he can recognize other besides Lanfear. First, there is Taim and the fact that LTT always goes beserk with Taim around. I think this may be because he recognizes Taim's soul. But that's of course just a conjecture at this point. There is also Rand recognizing Siuan in ToM when he sees her in the Tower. She is very changed after the stilling yet he nails her the moment their eyes meet.

 

 

 

She froze as he met her eyes. There was something indefinable about

he look like, then?"

—

them, a weight, an age. As though the man behind them was seeing through the light of a thousand lives compounded in one. His face did look like that of an Aes Sedai. Those eyes, at least, had agelessness.

The Dragon Reborn raised his right hand—his left arm was folded behind his back—and halted the procession. "Ifyou please," he said to the Warders, stepping through them.

-ToM, Ch 3

 

Rand actually saw Siuan once with her new face when he spied on the meeting in TAR when Egwene was summoned to Salidar. But he definitely did not recognize her then.

 

 

However, after he has the epiphany at Dragonmount, I believe that something has changed and he has now awoken to a full understanding of himself and his role. It is difficult to tell whether Rand Sedai is recognizing old souls reborn throughout Towers of Midnight, because it is not until the epilogue that we see his perspective. Even so, I would argue that he does not. Why? because I feel like it.

 

So if Mierin's is the only soul he recognizes, what does that mean. This is where the scene I was reading from The Shadow Rising comes in:

 

"I cannot trust you fully, Lews Therin. Not yet." She came closer, and he considered simply seizing her. He was bigger and stronger by far - and blocked as he was, she could wrap him up with the Power like a kitten tangled in a ball of string. "Not with that, certainly," she added, grimacing at Callandor. "There are only two more powerful that a man can use. One at least, I know, still exists. No, Lews Therin. I will not trust you yet with that."

"Stop calling me that," he growled. "My name is Rand. Rand al'Thor."

"You are Lews Therin Telamon. Oh, physically, nothing is the same except your height, but I would know who is behind those eyes even if I'd found you in your cradle."

 

If Lanfear is to be believed (which in this instance I will)

 

Sorry, but I don't see any reason to believe her on this one. It sounds like a wild boast to me, no more than that. Lanfear was obsessed with LTT so it would be quite in her character to claim something like that. Rand's identity was well known to the shadow at the point when Lanfear first showed up in TGH. If she recognized Rand before that (say, some time in tEoTW when Ishy was still not sure which of the boys was the dragon reborn) that would be significant. As it is I would not put much store in Lanfear's claim and I certainly don't think that she and Rand are some kind of soulmates.

 

Regarding Rands ability to see a person soul, there is the case of him meeting Siuan in The White Tower before his audience in The Hall. He walks straight up to her and recognize her. Considering how often throughout the book it's been stated that nobody is able to recognize Siuan after her stilling, it can be considered another proof of his ability to see and read the soul bound to a body.

exactly.

[MasterAblar]

Certainly her showing up changed Mierin's destiny, and Mierin in turn changed the world's destiny

 

LTT and Lanfear were only together for a short time. This was a number of years before the drilling of the bore. He left her before Ilyena was in the picture because she loved the prestige of LTT more than the man himself and saw him as a path to power. LTT and Ilyena were not married until some fifty years after the drilling of the bore. So LTT and Lanfear had not been together for 50+ years at that point and this is after dating only for a "short time". Not quite sure how Lanfear could have been delusional enough to blame Ilyena under those circumstances.

 

Lanfear? Delusional? Preposterous! =)

[Ala Rubra]

BWB

 

It is certain that Lews Therin and Mierin were involved with one another for a short time, and that Lews Therin broke off the relationship some years before the drilling of the Bore, partly because she loved her association with the great Lews Therin more than she loved the man, and partly because she saw him as a path to power for herself.

 

Thank you.

[navahgar]

It seems a lot of you are convinced that Rand Sedai can now see anyone's soul and recognize them. That was actually one of the possibilities I thought about, but I wanted to make the Dragon-Lanfear connection work, so I explained away some of the other evidence. One thing that I'd point out is that, if he's now (presumably since the epiphany at Dragonmount) able to recognize souls, then why did it take him so long to do it in this scene with Cyndane? He initially doesn't recognize her, claims he doesn't know her, then only after staring into her eyes for a while does the revelation dawn on him. Assuming this wasn't just a neat (clumsy?) plot device to bring Rand up to speed with the reader, it seems like he has to work through the process of recognition, and is surprised by that recognition as well. I (reading far too much into a 10 line section) see this as evidence that he hasn't been able to do it with others, because if he had he would be more practiced and less surprised about it.

 

But let's say for argument's sake that I'm wrong, and Rand now does have this ability to recognize people's souls. What does that mean for all of his interactions throughout Towers of Midnight, and into Memory of Light? When he has his conversation with Egwene in the Tower, is he seing her as Latra Posae Decume (presuming this is her reborn)? Does that color his attitude towards her, and explain why he doesn't give her more information? Does he recognize Min, or Rodel Ituralde, or Davram Bashere, or any of the myriad other characters who he has come across, that we here on these boards have speculated may be certain people reborn, as reborn souls? Or is his recognition limited to Heroes (and Villains per se) of the Horn? He's got to be able to recognize Birgitte instantly, but is he going to reveal Gaidal Cain? Or who Mat and Perrin might be? If we accept that he can now recognize souls, we have to countenance that he is reacting to that recognition in all of his interactions.

[herid]

It seems a lot of you are convinced that Rand Sedai can now see anyone's soul and recognize them. That was actually one of the possibilities I thought about, but I wanted to make the Dragon-Lanfear connection work, so I explained away some of the other evidence. One thing that I'd point out is that, if he's now (presumably since the epiphany at Dragonmount) able to recognize souls, then why did it take him so long to do it in this scene with Cyndane? He initially doesn't recognize her, claims he doesn't know her, then only after staring into her eyes for a while does the revelation dawn on him. Assuming this wasn't just a neat (clumsy?) plot device to bring Rand up to speed with the reader, it seems like he has to work through the process of recognition, and is surprised by that recognition as well. I (reading far too much into a 10 line section) see this as evidence that he hasn't been able to do it with others, because if he had he would be more practiced and less surprised about it.

 

But let's say for argument's sake that I'm wrong, and Rand now does have this ability to recognize people's souls. What does that mean for all of his interactions throughout Towers of Midnight, and into Memory of Light? When he has his conversation with Egwene in the Tower, is he seing her as Latra Posae Decume (presuming this is her reborn)? Does that color his attitude towards her, and explain why he doesn't give her more information? Does he recognize Min, or Rodel Ituralde, or Davram Bashere, or any of the myriad other characters who he has come across, that we here on these boards have speculated may be certain people reborn, as reborn souls? Or is his recognition limited to Heroes (and Villains per se) of the Horn? He's got to be able to recognize Birgitte instantly, but is he going to reveal Gaidal Cain? Or who Mat and Perrin might be? If we accept that he can now recognize souls, we have to countenance that he is reacting to that recognition in all of his interactions.

Personally, I don't buy any of the theories about this or that person (other than Rand) being some previously mentioned character reborn. I guess some could be (I don't believe that Egwene is Latra though) but I don't think this matters and it wouldn't matter in regards to Rand's soul recognition abilities. They'd have to be not simply somebody previously mentioned reborn but somebody that Rand knew in his past lives. None of those characters were fleshed out in the books and it would not make sense to introduce a twist like that into the story now.

Yes, Rand should recognize Birgitte when they meet again.

Gaidal Cain is less than 1 year old so it's highly unlikely he will play any role at all in aMol.

 

It might have been interesting to see Rand meet, say, Aran'gar and his soul recognition ability come to play a role there but that's now out.

[OptimusPrime]

Rand can recognize souls. He did that with Ishmael.

 

Can you remind me when that happened please?

 

It might have been interesting to see Rand meet, say, Aran'gar and his soul recognition ability come to play a role there but that's now out.

 

Dont worry dude, we will get our moment at the Black Tower. "I see you, Ishamael."

[MasterAblar]

Rand can recognize souls. He did that with Ishmael.

 

Can you remind me when that happened please?

 

It might have been interesting to see Rand meet, say, Aran'gar and his soul recognition ability come to play a role there but that's now out.

 

Dont worry dude, we will get our moment at the Black Tower. "I see you, Ishamael."

 

In tGS shortly before Semirhage escapes. Either in TAR or in Moridin's dreams.

[herid]

 

 

Dont worry dude, we will get our moment at the Black Tower. "I see you, Ishamael."

Yes, this might happen. Although it might be Cadsuane rather than Rand who uncovers Taim with her ter'angreal as she did with Semirhage. I didn't want to dwell on this too much because I didn't want to start yet another "is Taim Moridin" debate.

[Elysium]

I really only skimmed the responses to this post, but I didn't see anyone put this idea forward, so let me be the one to do it. When I read the scene with Lanfear that started this post, I assumed Rand was walking from his own mind into that of Moridin's (somehow). Lanfear and Moggy are mindtrapped, which would explain Lanfear's presence there (whether intended by Ishy or not is up for debate). Could it not be that Rand recognized her soul because of that connection?

 

Thoughts?

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

When I read the scene with Lanfear that started this post, I assumed Rand was walking from his own mind into that of Moridin's (somehow). Lanfear and Moggy are mindtrapped, which would explain Lanfear's presence there (whether intended by Ishy or not is up for debate). Could it not be that Rand recognized her soul because of that connection?

 

Thoughts?

It seems really unlikely to me that "he" (of "he has me") is Moridin. I can see it being the Dark One, or a DO proxy like Shaidar Haran, or Fain. Moridin is many things, but he isn't the shadow that dwells in every man's mind. Also, we've had POVs from Cyndane and Moghedien since their mindtrapping, and there's no indication at all that the mindtrap dispenses the kind of torture Cyndane seems to be undergoing in this scene.

[herid]

I really only skimmed the responses to this post, but I didn't see anyone put this idea forward, so let me be the one to do it. When I read the scene with Lanfear that started this post, I assumed Rand was walking from his own mind into that of Moridin's (somehow). Lanfear and Moggy are mindtrapped, which would explain Lanfear's presence there (whether intended by Ishy or not is up for debate). Could it not be that Rand recognized her soul because of that connection?

 

Thoughts?

This has been suggested before but I don't see why it would matter.

Rand didn't know about the link (at least he didn't understand it) and he certainly didn't know about the mindtrap. Yet, he thought that he could recognize Lanfear's soul and didn't find the mere act impossible or strange somehow. Why not? Why would he even think that he could recognize her soul? He is surprised to find out that it's her but he is not surprised that he could do it.

 

It also doesn't explain how Rand recognized Siuan when he came to the Tower. There were no mindtraps or links with Moridin involved in that one.