Dark Prophecies in TGH ~ my thoughts

[amaranth]

I'm re-reading the series for about the oh, eighth time and a lot more of this prophecy is starting to make sense to me. I thought I would write down my theories and compare with others.

 

Daughter of the Night, she walks again.

The ancient war, she yet fights.

Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still.

Who shall stand against her coming?

The Shining Walls shall kneel.

I never liked to think that Rand would die, but it seems that Rand will die. Lanfear is pretty crazy, so it seems that she will hunt him down in Tel'aran'rhiod. I wonder if she will drag him out of it like was done to Birgitte or if the last battle will be fought here? Most of the important characters can enter Tel'aran'rhiod, so it would make sense that the battle is here.

 

The man who channels stands alone.

He gives his friends for sacrifice.

Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to life eternal.

Which will he choose? Which will he choose?

What hand shelters? What hand slays?

I love this line because I now think it's a wording trick. Dark One (Father of Lies) = death beyond dying. Completing prophecy = life eternal since Rand will be sent back to Tel'aran'rhiod.

 

Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom.

Isam waited in the high passes.

The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill.

One did live, and one did die, but both are.

The Time of Change has come.

With all of the body switching going on, it sounds to me like the Isam is inhabiting Luc's body. So, Luc isn't really Luc, he's Isam walking around in Luc's body. If Luc had the ability to talk to wolves, I can see why the Dark One would want to steal his body. In Tel'aran'rhiod, you can appear as anything you want. I can wee why Isam would want to look like himself and not the body he stole.

[rand4747]

there is 2 souls attached to Luc, there is Luc who is the guy in the real world, and Isam who is stuck in the dream world. They probably only have control in their own world with the other sorta just a voice.

[Sid]

He had especially enjoyed those two Aes Sedai in the Stone of Tear. The incredulity on their faces when he appeared out of thin air, the horror when they realized he had not come to save them, were treasured memories. That had been Isam, not him, but the memories were none the less prized for that. Neither of them got to kill an Aes Sedai very often.

WH ch 22 'Out of Thin Air'

 

A man was standing there watching, a man as tall as an Aielman, with dark red hair faintly streaked with white, but his high-collared blue coat would never be worn by an Aiel. He appeared muscular, and his hard face seemed somehow familiar. When he saw them looking, he turned and ran down the corridor out of sight.

For an instant, Elayne gaped. He had not just accidentally dreamed himself into Tel'aran'rhiod, or he would have vanished by now, but she could still hear his boots, loud on the floor tiles. Either he was a dreamwalker—rare among men, so the Wise Ones said—or he had a ter'angreal of his own.

 

...

 

He reminded me of someone; I don't know who."

"Rand," Egwene said. "He could have been Rand's uncle."

Of course, Elayne thought. If Rand had a mean uncle.

WH ch 10 'A Plan Succeeds'

 

Here it is implied that Isam can be in the real world and Luc can be in T'a'R as well as the other way around.

[herid]

He had especially enjoyed those two Aes Sedai in the Stone of Tear. The incredulity on their faces when he appeared out of thin air, the horror when they realized he had not come to save them, were treasured memories. That had been Isam, not him, but the memories were none the less prized for that. Neither of them got to kill an Aes Sedai very often.

WH ch 22 'Out of Thin Air'

 

A man was standing there watching, a man as tall as an Aielman, with dark red hair faintly streaked with white, but his high-collared blue coat would never be worn by an Aiel. He appeared muscular, and his hard face seemed somehow familiar. When he saw them looking, he turned and ran down the corridor out of sight.

For an instant, Elayne gaped. He had not just accidentally dreamed himself into Tel'aran'rhiod, or he would have vanished by now, but she could still hear his boots, loud on the floor tiles. Either he was a dreamwalker—rare among men, so the Wise Ones said—or he had a ter'angreal of his own.

 

...

 

He reminded me of someone; I don't know who."

"Rand," Egwene said. "He could have been Rand's uncle."

Of course, Elayne thought. If Rand had a mean uncle.

WH ch 10 'A Plan Succeeds'

 

Here it is implied that Isam can be in the real world and Luc can be in T'a'R as well as the other way around.

yes, that's how I understand this quote too. before that scene I always assumed that Slayer can be only Luc in the waking world and only Isam in TAR but those two quotes mean that he can actually be either one in either TAR or the waking world at will. Moreover, part of the first scene happens in TAR when Slayer thinks of himself as Luc

 

For a moment he studied the faces of the man and woman on the bed, then pinched out the candle’s flame and returned the candle to his pocket before stepping back into Tel’aran’rhiod.

 

His patron of the moment was waiting for him. A man, he was sure of that much, but Luc could not look at him.

-WH, Ch 22

 

BTW, I've always wondered who is commanding Slayer in this scene. The only suspects I can think of are Moridin, Demandred and Taim (if he is not Moridin). I find it strange that whoever it was was using a disguise when talking to Slayer. At this point the "do not kill Rand" order was pretty clearly lifted so what was the point in hiding?

[mb]

Luc and Isam, the books up through Gathering Storm do not tell which one died.

And same books do not tell whether either was a Dreamwalker or a wolfbrother before they merged; I doubt wolfbrother.

 

Life eternal, I have interpreted that as Rand being resurrected; in his own body.

Likely methods::

-brought back by balefire

-technique similar to construct making

 

Rand serving Lanfear/Cyndane, that could imply Rand being tricked into serving her at some point/points and/or that Lanfear/Cyndane becomes converted to the Light at some point.

Moridin might be another likely candidate.

[DigitalSoul]

The Shining Walls shall kneel

 

What is the shining walls?

[mb]

I take White Tower or Aes Sedia.

[WhiskyJack]

The Shining Walls shall kneel

 

What is the shining walls?

 

 

Walls of WT (Battle of shining wall).

[Suttree]

He had especially enjoyed those two Aes Sedai in the Stone of Tear. The incredulity on their faces when he appeared out of thin air, the horror when they realized he had not come to save them, were treasured memories. That had been Isam, not him, but the memories were none the less prized for that. Neither of them got to kill an Aes Sedai very often.

WH ch 22 'Out of Thin Air'

 

A man was standing there watching, a man as tall as an Aielman, with dark red hair faintly streaked with white, but his high-collared blue coat would never be worn by an Aiel. He appeared muscular, and his hard face seemed somehow familiar. When he saw them looking, he turned and ran down the corridor out of sight.

For an instant, Elayne gaped. He had not just accidentally dreamed himself into Tel'aran'rhiod, or he would have vanished by now, but she could still hear his boots, loud on the floor tiles. Either he was a dreamwalker—rare among men, so the Wise Ones said—or he had a ter'angreal of his own.

 

...

 

He reminded me of someone; I don't know who."

"Rand," Egwene said. "He could have been Rand's uncle."

Of course, Elayne thought. If Rand had a mean uncle.

WH ch 10 'A Plan Succeeds'

 

Here it is implied that Isam can be in the real world and Luc can be in T'a'R as well as the other way around.

 

Yup I believe that is correct...

 

RJ's blog 4 October 2005 "ONE MORE TIME"

 

Slayer just chooses who he will be when he steps into or out of Tel’aran’rhiod. The stepping in and out is part of the mechanism for his change. He couldn’t do it in the middle of a street, say, not without the stepping in or out. Which might be a little noticeable, since he would vanish from sight for a perceptible time.

 

RJ's blog 6 October 2005 "AND ONE MORE TIME"

Slayer’s choices are limited to Isam and Luc.

 

also Slayer was never a Wolfbrother...

 

 

USAToday Chat - 5 January 2004

 

Long Island, NY: Is Slayer a corrupted Wolfbrother?

Robert Jordan: No.

[Thorgan]

Imho the most important question is why the fade wrote it.

 

I guess Verin could've also made changes to it. Not like anyone was going to talk with the other brown (dont remember the name).