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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Slayer/Luc and The Tower of Ghenjei


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In The Shadow Rising, Slayer is seen entering the TOG. Now that we know what it is like inside, because of Mat, Thom and Noal's rescue of Moiraine, does anyone have any idea what Slayer is going there for? He must have a way of getting out as well, which we all know is not easy. Mat's Ashendarei does not appear to be a very common item.

 

One of my theories is that the veiled creatures at the end of Towers of Midnight are actually the Foxes, somehow lured into Randland to fight for the Shadow. Their pointed teeth are eerily familar to what is described of the Foxes by Mat. Thoughts?

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Moraine said there was a man that came in after Lanfear. I thought at first it had to have been Moridin, but now that I think about it, Slayer did go inside the Tower.... not long before we meet Cyndane...

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He went to the ToG in T'a'R and disappeared. Perrin is still new to T'a'R (and Slayer) at this point and assumes he went inside the Tower. What's much more likely is that he just left T'a'R. It might have been a feint to make Perrin think he went in there and try to follow him, which would have been death if it's even possible.

 

The red veiled fellows at the end of ToM are probably not Eelfinn. They look very different from humans. Barriga thinks they are Aielmen at first, and they have the faces of men with teeth filed to points.

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I don't believe he did go in, it was a trap for Perrin. Birgitte even tells Perrin that it's hard enough to leave the ToG when you enter from the real world and all but impossible to leave when entering from TAR.

 

I think it was Moridin that went there to get Lanfear and he was the one that reduced the second Doorway to a pile of rubble after leaving.

This is the big clue imo.

Edited by Finnssss
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Can Finnland be reached through Portal Stones?

 

I don't think so.. but I'm not sure if RJ ever commented on the possibility of that.

 

 

 

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well we havent seen a portal stone there... but there is nothing that we know of that says there cannot be one of the rocks stashed in their cellar

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Can Finnland be reached through Portal Stones?

I'm quite sure it can't. Portal stones are for reaching Mirror Worlds which are reflections of our world. The Finn World is a parallel world, not a Mirror world.

 

Edit. Found a quote confirming that

 

Knife of Dreams book tour 5 November 2005 - Karana Majin reporting

 

Q: Can the Tower of Ghenjei be reached through any of the Portal Stones?

RJ: No.

 

 

Also, RJ said that the Finns have nothing to do with TAR and their world can not be reached from TAR. that makes it highly unlikely that Slayer could use the TG to any effect. Birgitte's remark in that regard is very curious though.

 

WinespringBrother reporting:

 

WinespringBrother: Does the physical location of the world of 'Finns have anything to do with the bells ringing when the ta'veren were in together?

Jordan: No.

WinespringBrother: Have the 'Finns existed as long as the Wheel?

Jordan: Yes.

WinespringBrother: Do they have souls?

Jordan: Yes.

WinespringBrother: Are the 'Finns from human stock?

Jordan: No.

WinespringBrother: Did they originate in their current location?

Jordan: Yes.

WinespringBrother: Are they related to Tel'aran'rhiod or do they control Tel'aran'rhiod?

Jordan: No.

 

Tamyrlin: The 'Finns reside in a Parallel World, is that correct?

Jordan: Yes.

Tamyrlin: Okay, so are Parallel Worlds and Mirror Worlds the same thing?

Jordan: No, they are different.

Tamyrlin: Okay, well then do Parallel Worlds have their own reflections?

Jordan: Possibly.

A Crown of Swords book tour 9 October 1996, Dunwoody, GA - Erica Sadun reporting

 

 

Q: Also, what was going on in Aelfland when Mat went round and round and round the same location? Were they traveling in time?

RJ: Not traveling in time. the physical laws of nature differ. Mentioning the Dark One here is bad luck. In Aelfland, it is really bad. You can not go to Aelfland in Tel'aran'rhiod (similar to stedding).

 

Based on the first quote it may be though that the Finn world has its own TAR.

 

Moraine said there was a man that came in after Lanfear. I thought at first it had to have been Moridin, but now that I think about it, Slayer did go inside the Tower.... not long before we meet Cyndane...

the scene with Slayer and TG is from TSR. Lanfear went to the Finn-land at the very end of tFoH. Cyndane showed up in tPoD (4 books after TSR). Based on the RJ quotes above I don't see any way for the person who showed up for Cyndane to be Slayer. And even if Slayer did get to the Finn-land somehow using his special TAR skills how would it help him in any way in getting Lanfear out of there? they would have no means of escape so what would have been the point?

Edited by herid
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Can Finnland be reached through Portal Stones?

I'm quite sure it can't. Portal stones are for reaching Mirror Worlds which are reflections of our world. The Finn World is a parallel world, not a Mirror world.

 

Edit. Found a quote confirming that

 

Knife of Dreams book tour 5 November 2005 - Karana Majin reporting

 

Q: Can the Tower of Ghenjei be reached through any of the Portal Stones?

RJ: No.

 

 

Also, RJ said that the Finns have nothing to do with TAR and their world can not be reached from TAR. that makes it highly unlikely that Slayer could use the TG to any effect. Birgitte's remark in that regard is very curious though.

 

WinespringBrother reporting:

 

WinespringBrother: Does the physical location of the world of 'Finns have anything to do with the bells ringing when the ta'veren were in together?

Jordan: No.

WinespringBrother: Have the 'Finns existed as long as the Wheel?

Jordan: Yes.

WinespringBrother: Do they have souls?

Jordan: Yes.

WinespringBrother: Are the 'Finns from human stock?

Jordan: No.

WinespringBrother: Did they originate in their current location?

Jordan: Yes.

WinespringBrother: Are they related to Tel'aran'rhiod or do they control Tel'aran'rhiod?

Jordan: No.

 

Tamyrlin: The 'Finns reside in a Parallel World, is that correct?

Jordan: Yes.

Tamyrlin: Okay, so are Parallel Worlds and Mirror Worlds the same thing?

Jordan: No, they are different.

Tamyrlin: Okay, well then do Parallel Worlds have their own reflections?

Jordan: Possibly.

A Crown of Swords book tour 9 October 1996, Dunwoody, GA - Erica Sadun reporting

 

 

Q: Also, what was going on in Aelfland when Mat went round and round and round the same location? Were they traveling in time?

RJ: Not traveling in time. the physical laws of nature differ. Mentioning the Dark One here is bad luck. In Aelfland, it is really bad. You can not go to Aelfland in Tel'aran'rhiod (similar to stedding).

 

Based on the first quote it may be though that the Finn world has its own TAR.

 

Moraine said there was a man that came in after Lanfear. I thought at first it had to have been Moridin, but now that I think about it, Slayer did go inside the Tower.... not long before we meet Cyndane...

the scene with Slayer and TG is from TSR. Lanfear went to the Finn-land at the very end of tFoH. Cyndane showed up in tPoD (4 books after TSR). Based on the RJ quotes above I don't see any way for the person who showed up for Cyndane to be Slayer. And even if Slayer did get to the Finn-land somehow using his special TAR skills how would it help him in any way in getting Lanfear out of there? they would have no means of escape so what would have been the point?

Yes, I've always assumed that it was much more likely to be Moridin that went to rescue Lanfear. Moridin has his philosopher's knowledge which may include useful stuff about Finnland. Plus he has TP access, which may give him the ability to bypass the Finn's tricks and ter'angreals that could stop/ hobble an OP user. I also assumed that whoever it was, destroyed the Tear door, which was apparently done with power-usage. The other possible candidate is Demandred but his lack of TP access would make him more vulnerable.

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He may not have gone inside, the text just says he vanished so it could have been a trap for Perrin.

 

I disagree. Why would Slayer think that Perrin could get inside the tower? Is it that easy in Teleranrhiod to enter the Tower of Ghenjei? I doubt it. It would be.. lame if that is what Jordan meant to do in that scene. Plus, Birgette implies that Slayer did go inside - hence her warning for Perrin not to do so.

 

I think there is more here than just some Slayer subterfuge. Someone should ask Brandon a clever question if we will see the Finns in AMoL. And whether Slayer has any dealings with them. Maybe we won't get a RAFO.

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He may not have gone inside, the text just says he vanished so it could have been a trap for Perrin.

 

I disagree. Why would Slayer think that Perrin could get inside the tower? Is it that easy in Teleranrhiod to enter the Tower of Ghenjei? I doubt it. It would be.. lame if that is what Jordan meant to do in that scene. Plus, Birgette implies that Slayer did go inside - hence her warning for Perrin not to do so.

 

I think there is more here than just some Slayer subterfuge. Someone should ask Brandon a clever question if we will see the Finns in AMoL. And whether Slayer has any dealings with them. Maybe we won't get a RAFO.

 

I don't know how easy it is to get in or if Slayer really thought Perrin could do so, but Perrin certainly intended to try until he was warned off by Hopper then Birgitte. Birgitte even says it's all but impossible to leave the Tower of Ghenjei in the World of Dreams, which makes Perrin wonder why Slayer would have gone inside if it was impossible. A good answer to that, in my opinion, is that he didn't and was just trying to lure Perrin into doing so.

 

I'm not sure why you say Birgiite implies Slayer went inside? I just read that scene again and didn't see it.

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He may not have gone inside, the text just says he vanished so it could have been a trap for Perrin.

 

I disagree. Why would Slayer think that Perrin could get inside the tower? Is it that easy in Teleranrhiod to enter the Tower of Ghenjei? I doubt it. It would be.. lame if that is what Jordan meant to do in that scene. Plus, Birgette implies that Slayer did go inside - hence her warning for Perrin not to do so.

 

I think there is more here than just some Slayer subterfuge. Someone should ask Brandon a clever question if we will see the Finns in AMoL. And whether Slayer has any dealings with them. Maybe we won't get a RAFO.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it just takes imagining a door to get in while dreaming.

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I think it would be more difficult than that.

 

If RJ said that the land of Finns wasn't connected to the world of dreams then I wouldn't think that you could create a link to it from there.

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I think it would be more difficult than that.

 

If RJ said that the land of Finns wasn't connected to the world of dreams then I wouldn't think that you could create a link to it from there.

Perhaps, the ToG isn't actually part of Finnland? It's a portal, an in-between place that connects Finnland to other worlds. In that case, ToG may exist in mirror worlds and parallel worlds as well as in TAR. If it exists in TAR, there should be a way to get into it, in TAR.

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  • 4 weeks later...

In relation to not being able to enter stedding in TAR and not being able to access the OP in the normal world, and the fact that OP usage is changed/prevented in the Tower of Ghenjei in their normal world, wouldn't it make sense that it was simply impossible to access it throught the world of dreams, or that you'd be killed or fall into an empty abyss (as seen in Skimming) or some such?

 

A similar, but not identical, effect as stedding. That's what I reckon.

 

Or perphaps, if the Finnlands have their own TAR, it might connect to that one.....

You would most definatley be in trouble if you wound up there.

Edited by SheaththeSword
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