Why did RJ turn the channeling system on its head?

[b3arz3rg3r]

That's right. Asmo said that 13 weak women could overpower most men, not all men, so you can deduce that some men could indeed break such a shield.

 

 

Yes, but the keywords are "barely channel" as in regards to the 'most men'. And "The thirteen weakest women in the Tower could overpower you or any man, and barely breathe hard." That doesn't even specify them being Aes Sedai, just 'in the tower', so that would even include novices.

 

I think regardless of Rand's level of strength at this point Asmodean already knows what "any man" ie LTT, Ishamael, Aginor, etc can do with the Power, so he wouldnt have said "any man" if he meant "most men".

 

If 13 of the weakest initiates of the tower can shield ANY man, then certainly 13 AS can, and certainly no woman used to shield a man would be weak, so really what Asmodean was saying was that due to some unexplained reason it is virtually impossible to break a circle of that size, even for LTT, even if the women are the WEAKEST women.

 

Therefore, just the idea that Egwene has that Rand can break a 13 shield, let alone TWO based on his channeling abilities alone is preposterous.

 

Well, the thing is Rand's way of accessing saidin has changed if his kids are any measure. He may not be able to overwhelm two circles of 13 with power, but what if it's no longer possible to cut him off from the source. Or atleast the way of cutting him off has changed and grown far more difficult? Afterall it's not as if the Aes Sedai have any idea of how his access might have changed. They have simply used the same weave they have used for thousands of years. They have no way of telling whether it's effective or not.

[herid]

He is certainly not using an sa'angreal, 100% certain of this. Only sa'angreal Rand has in Callandor and that would be very apparent by Naeff et al in Maradon.

 

 

I don't think he is using a sa'angreal either but it's a possibility that should be considered. I do agree that it wouldn't be Callandor as it's too big and would have been noticed. Also, Callandor needs to be touched when in use and Rand is described as thrusting his one remaining hand at the attacking shadowspawn.

 

But there is still a possibility (if a remote one) that Rand found another sa'angreal somewhere and kept quiet about it. Lanfear mentioned to him once that there were two sa'angreal made stronger than Callandor. One was the Choedan Kal. The other one has never been mentioned since. But I really don't think this is what happened especially given that Rand very seemed sure that he could break the shields if Egwene tried to hold him. He definitely didn't have any sa'angreal with him then. He came to the White Tower straight from the Dragonmount and he didn't have any sa'angreal there.

[smthappy]

Maybe he had digged smth from LTT's estate under the Dragonmount

[Kahsm]

Well, the thing is Rand's way of accessing saidin has changed if his kids are any measure. He may not be able to overwhelm two circles of 13 with power, but what if it's no longer possible to cut him off from the source. Or atleast the way of cutting him off has changed and grown far more difficult? Afterall it's not as if the Aes Sedai have any idea of how his access might have changed. They have simply used the same weave they have used for thousands of years. They have no way of telling whether it's effective or not.

 

I don't personally believe that what his kids are or will be has any bearing on Rand as he his now. As that was a vision of the future, anything could happen between now and then. Also if the creator changed him in VoG, it's kinda strange that it would become genetic and not just a gift for the particular champion of the light. Something just doesn't feel right about that.

 

And FTR, I stand corrected on the "Light" emanating possibly being only his massive amount of saidin he holds. Though that doesn't change much. I've never denied that he doesn't have nifty new Light powers that let him stare down dark friends.

[Thor]

channeling continuously should not be physically possible. it drains your body's strength like running, and nobody can keep running forever.

 

And I laugh in the faces of those who thinks what Rand did at Maradon is anything special. He has done far more at Cairhien where he channeled FOR THE WHOLE FRIGGING DAY, and BLEW UP THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS FROM A HUGE DISTANCE AWAY.

[Aiyen kin Leary]

That's what someone from the Second or Third Ages would say, and that's all we know. But it seems that this may not be true now during the Time of Change...

[b3arz3rg3r]

channeling continuously should not be physically possible. it drains your body's strength like running, and nobody can keep running forever.

 

And I laugh in the faces of those who thinks what Rand did at Maradon is anything special. He has done far more at Cairhien where he channeled FOR THE WHOLE FRIGGING DAY, and BLEW UP THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS FROM A HUGE DISTANCE AWAY.

 

In Cairhien Rand didn't do a third of what he did in Maradon and that is with an angreal. He used mostly fireballs to burn any cover the shaido might be hiding in and a few lightning bolts when the sally of the Cairhienin failed and Mat's POV showed how the Aiel learned to minimize the damage by the three channellers. Also as I recall there was no way of distinguishing which Aiel were on his side and who on the side of the Shaido once the main forces clashed so Rand can't have been involved there. So I have my doubts about your "thousands and thousands".

[thump]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this or not (I didn't scrutinize the entire post--sorry), but I think what Rand did at Maradon is much more closely comparable to what Birgitte did when trying to rescue Elayne from the Black Ajah (KoD, I think).

 

That was the only other time (aside from the meat-grinder section of Dumai's Wells) where we have seen a non-channeling force charge head-on into a channeling one. Rand may have stood on a tower and blasted away for a while against the Aiel, and the Aiel may have charged for a short time into the teeth of the Asha'man, but Maradon is the first time a non-channeling force tried in a concerted, all-out rush to get to a channeler from that kind of distance, over that kind of open terrain.

 

If the Sea Folk had not intervened in the Birgitte/Elayne example above, a handful of Black Ajah (admittedly with a pretty potent angreal) would have wiped out pretty much the majority of Caemlyn's standing forces. I don't see Rand performing at any lesser level.

 

Just my two cents.

[WhiskyJack]

So is there a figure for dead shadowspawns killed at Maradon?

[b3arz3rg3r]

So is there a figure for dead shadowspawns killed at Maradon?

 

There is only conjecture. Ituralde had a hundred Asha'man and while I'm not sure whether I remember correctly upwards of 30k troops. For the shadowspawn to drive them from a well fortified position in a matter of days they would have to be several times as many. So let's say 100k were involved in the initial assault on Maradon. That sounds to be a conservative number in my opinion. And then right before Rand took to the field there was a line on how many times as many shadowspawn were attacking then as had been involved in the previous attacks. A reasonable number would be 500k in my opinion but it could be easily twice that. I'd say Rand killed more than half of those who showed themselves and that would mean 300k. Add those Ituralde is responsible for and I'd say atleast 350k killed shadowspawn in the entire Maradon assault.

Of course that's all dependant on the initial figure of Ituralde's troops and a lot of guesswork, but to me it sounds about right.

[WhiskyJack]

Has it really been few days?

 

This is from book:

 

Al’Thor lowered his hand. The field before him was piled with carcasses atop carcasses. Tens of thousands of dead Trollocs smoldering. Directly before al’Thor, a pile a hundred paces wide formed a ridge five feet tall, a mound of dead that had nearly reached him.

 

 

 

Now I wonder why author mentioned the Bold part?

[b3arz3rg3r]

Has it really been few days?

 

This is from book:

 

Al’Thor lowered his hand. The field before him was piled with carcasses atop carcasses. Tens of thousands of dead Trollocs smoldering. Directly before al’Thor, a pile a hundred paces wide formed a ridge five feet tall, a mound of dead that had nearly reached him.

 

 

 

Now I wonder why author mentioned the Bold part?

 

I would assume because there are tens of thousands on the field before him. What else do you think that was supposed to mean?... oh now I get it you were trying to be clever and wanted to tell me how unrealistic my figures are. Too bad for you that not all the shadowspawn he killed are on the field before him. He also killed those on the hills and in the defenses before Maradon and he burned those in the pass between the hills as well. Well, better luck next time.

[WhiskyJack]

Has it really been few days?

 

This is from book:

 

Al’Thor lowered his hand. The field before him was piled with carcasses atop carcasses. Tens of thousands of dead Trollocs smoldering. Directly before al’Thor, a pile a hundred paces wide formed a ridge five feet tall, a mound of dead that had nearly reached him.

 

 

 

Now I wonder why author mentioned the Bold part?

 

I would assume because there are tens of thousands on the field before him. What else do you think that was supposed to mean?... oh now I get it you were trying to be clever and wanted to tell me how unrealistic my figures are. Too bad for you that not all the shadowspawn he killed are on the field before him. He also killed those on the hills and in the defenses before Maradon and he burned those in the pass between the hills as well. Well, better luck next time.

 

 

 

Clever yes

From book:

"Perhaps we could push them off that hilltop", one of Basheres men said. "Clean out the fortifications". He didn't sound very optimistic.

"Son", Ituralde said, forcing his eyes open, '"I held that hill for weeks against a superior force."

 

 

They got runover because trollocs were not totally dumb and unlike trollocs, these men were not getting any reinforcements?

 

 

The reason bold part matters because shadowspawn charged at him. Yes, there are lines that say that his attack went up the hill but most killings must have happened around him (drakhar falling from sky, trollocs charging...) 10s of thousands afterall can mean 50k or 70k.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Has it really been few days?

 

This is from book:

 

Al’Thor lowered his hand. The field before him was piled with carcasses atop carcasses. Tens of thousands of dead Trollocs smoldering. Directly before al’Thor, a pile a hundred paces wide formed a ridge five feet tall, a mound of dead that had nearly reached him.

 

 

 

Now I wonder why author mentioned the Bold part?

 

I would assume because there are tens of thousands on the field before him. What else do you think that was supposed to mean?... oh now I get it you were trying to be clever and wanted to tell me how unrealistic my figures are. Too bad for you that not all the shadowspawn he killed are on the field before him. He also killed those on the hills and in the defenses before Maradon and he burned those in the pass between the hills as well. Well, better luck next time.

 

 

 

Clever yes

From book:

"Perhaps we could push them off that hilltop", one of Basheres men said. "Clean out the fortifications". He didn't sound very optimistic.

"Son", Ituralde said, forcing his eyes open, '"I held that hill for weeks against a superior force."

 

 

 

They got runover because trollocs were not totally dumb and unlike trollocs, these men were not getting any reinforcements?

 

So how far do you think that should change my assessment that there were perhaps a 100k trollocs involved in the initial attack on Maradon? By which I mean all those Ituralde fought on the fortifications and in Maradon itself until Bashere and Rand arrived and drove them out. I still view 100k as a reasonable figure. A great captain, first with 30k or so troops supported by 100 Asha'man fighting in an excellent defensible position and later on with additional saldean reinforcements to make up for some of the losses on the walls of Maradon and finally in the streets of Maradon where he by all accounts lead a miraculous defense.

 

The reason bold part matters because shadowspawn charged at him. Yes, there are lines that say that his attack went up the hill but most killings must have happened around him (drakhar falling from sky, trollocs charging...) 10s of thousands afterall can mean 50k or 70k.

 

Not really, that's just an unsubstantiated assumption on your part. Rand was far too thorough. Those enormous waves of fire, the landspouts and the lightning and the deathgates went a lot further than just the field in front of him. All of it washed completely over the hill which was packed with trollocs and into the pass as well. By the way the victims of the deathgates wouldn't be seen on the battlefield.

 

Fact of the matter is it would be out of character for shadowspawn to retreat with only 10% losses when those 10% nearly managed to reach Rand. If they were human I agree they might break, but trollocs haven't been shown to break until atleast half of them lay dead on the battlefield.

There's a comment of entire legions fleeing as they witnessed the massacre, but considering a legion is usually about 6,000 soldiers and the trolloc army had by my current estimate nearly a hundred of those that doesn't account for the majority of the host.

 

So yeah, for now I'll stick to me figures until someone can tell me how many soldiers there really were in Ituralde's army or offer solid arguments why they are wrong.

[Kahsm]

The number of Trollocs killed is completely irrelevant. It's not X channeling power is required per 1 trolloc killed.

 

If you drop a rock from the sky, you might hit 1... you might hit 10. Since all the Trollocs were rushing from one direction, it's pretty easy to open some earth, throw some rolling rings of fire, shadowspawn choppin' gates, or start some lightning storms and just watch them all die.

[WhiskyJack]

Has it really been few days?

 

This is from book:

 

Al’Thor lowered his hand. The field before him was piled with carcasses atop carcasses. Tens of thousands of dead Trollocs smoldering. Directly before al’Thor, a pile a hundred paces wide formed a ridge five feet tall, a mound of dead that had nearly reached him.

 

 

 

Now I wonder why author mentioned the Bold part?

 

I would assume because there are tens of thousands on the field before him. What else do you think that was supposed to mean?... oh now I get it you were trying to be clever and wanted to tell me how unrealistic my figures are. Too bad for you that not all the shadowspawn he killed are on the field before him. He also killed those on the hills and in the defenses before Maradon and he burned those in the pass between the hills as well. Well, better luck next time.

 

 

 

Clever yes

From book:

"Perhaps we could push them off that hilltop", one of Basheres men said. "Clean out the fortifications". He didn't sound very optimistic.

"Son", Ituralde said, forcing his eyes open, '"I held that hill for weeks against a superior force."

 

 

 

They got runover because trollocs were not totally dumb and unlike trollocs, these men were not getting any reinforcements?

 

So how far do you think that should change my assessment that there were perhaps a 100k trollocs involved in the initial attack on Maradon? By which I mean all those Ituralde fought on the fortifications and in Maradon itself until Bashere and Rand arrived and drove them out. I still view 100k as a reasonable figure. A great captain, first with 30k or so troops supported by 100 Asha'man fighting in an excellent defensible position and later on with additional saldean reinforcements to make up for some of the losses on the walls of Maradon and finally in the streets of Maradon where he by all accounts lead a miraculous defense.

 

The reason bold part matters because shadowspawn charged at him. Yes, there are lines that say that his attack went up the hill but most killings must have happened around him (drakhar falling from sky, trollocs charging...) 10s of thousands afterall can mean 50k or 70k.

 

Not really, that's just an unsubstantiated assumption on your part. Rand was far too thorough. Those enormous waves of fire, the landspouts and the lightning and the deathgates went a lot further than just the field in front of him. All of it washed completely over the hill which was packed with trollocs and into the pass as well. By the way the victims of the deathgates wouldn't be seen on the battlefield.

 

Fact of the matter is it would be out of character for shadowspawn to retreat with only 10% losses when those 10% nearly managed to reach Rand. If they were human I agree they might break, but trollocs haven't been shown to break until atleast half of them lay dead on the battlefield.

There's a comment of entire legions fleeing as they witnessed the massacre, but considering a legion is usually about 6,000 soldiers and the trolloc army had by my current estimate nearly a hundred of those that doesn't account for the majority of the host.

 

So yeah, for now I'll stick to me figures until someone can tell me how many soldiers there really were in Ituralde's army or offer solid arguments why they are wrong.

 

 

Forgive me, I didn't realize that you were a war expert. I merely assumed that since he had a very decent pile of trollocs so near him, he couldn't have been so through otherwise they wouldn't have manage to come so close to him. Thanks, anyways.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Has it really been few days?

 

This is from book:

 

Al’Thor lowered his hand. The field before him was piled with carcasses atop carcasses. Tens of thousands of dead Trollocs smoldering. Directly before al’Thor, a pile a hundred paces wide formed a ridge five feet tall, a mound of dead that had nearly reached him.

 

 

 

Now I wonder why author mentioned the Bold part?

 

I would assume because there are tens of thousands on the field before him. What else do you think that was supposed to mean?... oh now I get it you were trying to be clever and wanted to tell me how unrealistic my figures are. Too bad for you that not all the shadowspawn he killed are on the field before him. He also killed those on the hills and in the defenses before Maradon and he burned those in the pass between the hills as well. Well, better luck next time.

 

 

 

Clever yes

From book:

"Perhaps we could push them off that hilltop", one of Basheres men said. "Clean out the fortifications". He didn't sound very optimistic.

"Son", Ituralde said, forcing his eyes open, '"I held that hill for weeks against a superior force."

 

 

 

They got runover because trollocs were not totally dumb and unlike trollocs, these men were not getting any reinforcements?

 

So how far do you think that should change my assessment that there were perhaps a 100k trollocs involved in the initial attack on Maradon? By which I mean all those Ituralde fought on the fortifications and in Maradon itself until Bashere and Rand arrived and drove them out. I still view 100k as a reasonable figure. A great captain, first with 30k or so troops supported by 100 Asha'man fighting in an excellent defensible position and later on with additional saldean reinforcements to make up for some of the losses on the walls of Maradon and finally in the streets of Maradon where he by all accounts lead a miraculous defense.

 

The reason bold part matters because shadowspawn charged at him. Yes, there are lines that say that his attack went up the hill but most killings must have happened around him (drakhar falling from sky, trollocs charging...) 10s of thousands afterall can mean 50k or 70k.

 

Not really, that's just an unsubstantiated assumption on your part. Rand was far too thorough. Those enormous waves of fire, the landspouts and the lightning and the deathgates went a lot further than just the field in front of him. All of it washed completely over the hill which was packed with trollocs and into the pass as well. By the way the victims of the deathgates wouldn't be seen on the battlefield.

 

Fact of the matter is it would be out of character for shadowspawn to retreat with only 10% losses when those 10% nearly managed to reach Rand. If they were human I agree they might break, but trollocs haven't been shown to break until atleast half of them lay dead on the battlefield.

There's a comment of entire legions fleeing as they witnessed the massacre, but considering a legion is usually about 6,000 soldiers and the trolloc army had by my current estimate nearly a hundred of those that doesn't account for the majority of the host.

 

So yeah, for now I'll stick to me figures until someone can tell me how many soldiers there really were in Ituralde's army or offer solid arguments why they are wrong.

 

 

Forgive me, I didn't realize that you were a war expert. I merely assumed that since he had a very decent pile of trollocs so near him, he couldn't have been so through otherwise they wouldn't have manage to come so close to him. Thanks, anyways.

 

Your sarcasm really hurts. LMAO

 

Thing is, you don't need to be a war expert you just need to read the books properly and put what happened at Maradon into context. If you recall the attack on the manor house in Tear or how the trollocs acted in the Two Rivers when Perrin fought them to name two examples you would realize how much it takes to break an attack of trollocs.

[Entreri]

He is certainly not using an sa'angreal, 100% certain of this. Only sa'angreal Rand has in Callandor and that would be very apparent by Naeff et al in Maradon.

 

 

I don't think he is using a sa'angreal either but it's a possibility that should be considered. I do agree that it wouldn't be Callandor as it's too big and would have been noticed. Also, Callandor needs to be touched when in use and Rand is described as thrusting his one remaining hand at the attacking shadowspawn.

 

But there is still a possibility (if a remote one) that Rand found another sa'angreal somewhere and kept quiet about it. Lanfear mentioned to him once that there were two sa'angreal made stronger than Callandor. One was the Choedan Kal. The other one has never been mentioned since. But I really don't think this is what happened especially given that Rand very seemed sure that he could break the shields if Egwene tried to hold him. He definitely didn't have any sa'angreal with him then. He came to the White Tower straight from the Dragonmount and he didn't have any sa'angreal there.

 

Definitely he had no sa'angreal.

 

A sa'angreal would not help him anyway once he is shielded. He needs inherent raw power to break through a shield of that magnitude. Logain "almost" (Demandered/Agnior strength) as strong as Rand, AS thought if 5 held his shield he would have broken through...Rand is being held by 13 and both he and Egwene are sure he could break through.

 

Definitely something happened in DR to change him. Rand on steroids...he just naturally increased him limit by drawing an insane amount of saidin. Possibly.

[Entreri]

Has it really been few days?

 

This is from book:

 

Al’Thor lowered his hand. The field before him was piled with carcasses atop carcasses. Tens of thousands of dead Trollocs smoldering. Directly before al’Thor, a pile a hundred paces wide formed a ridge five feet tall, a mound of dead that had nearly reached him.

 

 

 

Now I wonder why author mentioned the Bold part?

 

I would assume because there are tens of thousands on the field before him. What else do you think that was supposed to mean?... oh now I get it you were trying to be clever and wanted to tell me how unrealistic my figures are. Too bad for you that not all the shadowspawn he killed are on the field before him. He also killed those on the hills and in the defenses before Maradon and he burned those in the pass between the hills as well. Well, better luck next time.

 

 

 

Clever yes

From book:

"Perhaps we could push them off that hilltop", one of Basheres men said. "Clean out the fortifications". He didn't sound very optimistic.

"Son", Ituralde said, forcing his eyes open, '"I held that hill for weeks against a superior force."

 

 

 

They got runover because trollocs were not totally dumb and unlike trollocs, these men were not getting any reinforcements?

 

So how far do you think that should change my assessment that there were perhaps a 100k trollocs involved in the initial attack on Maradon? By which I mean all those Ituralde fought on the fortifications and in Maradon itself until Bashere and Rand arrived and drove them out. I still view 100k as a reasonable figure. A great captain, first with 30k or so troops supported by 100 Asha'man fighting in an excellent defensible position and later on with additional saldean reinforcements to make up for some of the losses on the walls of Maradon and finally in the streets of Maradon where he by all accounts lead a miraculous defense.

 

The reason bold part matters because shadowspawn charged at him. Yes, there are lines that say that his attack went up the hill but most killings must have happened around him (drakhar falling from sky, trollocs charging...) 10s of thousands afterall can mean 50k or 70k.

 

Not really, that's just an unsubstantiated assumption on your part. Rand was far too thorough. Those enormous waves of fire, the landspouts and the lightning and the deathgates went a lot further than just the field in front of him. All of it washed completely over the hill which was packed with trollocs and into the pass as well. By the way the victims of the deathgates wouldn't be seen on the battlefield.

 

Fact of the matter is it would be out of character for shadowspawn to retreat with only 10% losses when those 10% nearly managed to reach Rand. If they were human I agree they might break, but trollocs haven't been shown to break until atleast half of them lay dead on the battlefield.

There's a comment of entire legions fleeing as they witnessed the massacre, but considering a legion is usually about 6,000 soldiers and the trolloc army had by my current estimate nearly a hundred of those that doesn't account for the majority of the host.

 

So yeah, for now I'll stick to me figures until someone can tell me how many soldiers there really were in Ituralde's army or offer solid arguments why they are wrong.

 

 

The army he faced was at least 1/2 and easily he must have killed at least 200,000, I would say a minimum 1/2 of the force.

 

 

Iturlade thought no army could stop that, except the Seanchan. So this Trolloc army was truly titanic and 1 million is not out of the question.

 

Nobody would think what he did is a miracle if he killed a few (50k) and most certainly a Trolloc army would not retreat by losing just 10% of it total force. This army was sent by Ishamael, if not the DO himself.

[Sharaman]

We do have numbers - sort of.

Ituralde had the remnants of 50 (exhausted) channellers and an initial army of 50K when he started defending the fortifications outside Maradon.

Plus there were the Saldeans - we don't know how many, but enough to push the trollocs back until Ituralde's force could get inside the city.

 

There were enough trollocs in the initial assault on the city for Ituralde to not even attempt to hold the city normally, once the gate/walls was breached by the hidden Dark channelers.

 

Normal odds - at least 4x or better is needed to take a fortified position against skilled and determined defenders.

Also, in KoD, at Algiarin's manor around 25 channelers destroyed a force of about 100K trollocs.

 

--- Reasonable to assume the initial Maradon assault had at least 150K-200K trollocs - perhaps even more.

 

Then Bashere arrived with his army, Ashaman and AS and cleared the city again.

At that stage, when Bashere saw the force coming up against him, he decided he couldn't hold Maradon, despite having channelers and a fresh conventional army (Dragon Legion).

That's probably around 50K plus in the Dragon legion + Bashere's fresh channelers.

With the remaining defenders, maybe until 100K defenders total

 

It's reasonable to assume that Bashere wouldn't want to pull out of his hometown unless he was outnumbered by at least 5x1 or worse. The second assault could have had around 500K or more trollocs coming in.

[Kahsm]

The number of Trollocs killed is completely irrelevant. It's not X channeling power is required per 1 trolloc killed.

 

If you drop a rock from the sky, you might hit 1... you might hit 10. Since all the Trollocs were rushing from one direction, it's pretty easy to open some earth, throw some rolling rings of fire, shadowspawn choppin' gates, or start some lightning storms and just watch them all die.

 

I'm quoting myself because you all continue to argue an irrelevant point. If you want to start a "How many Trollocs did Rand kill" Thread, all the power to ya.

 

Throw a fireball at 1 trolloc, kill 1 trolloc...

Throw a fireball at a tight group of 100 trollocs, kill 100 trollocs...

[b3arz3rg3r]

The number of Trollocs killed is completely irrelevant. It's not X channeling power is required per 1 trolloc killed.

 

If you drop a rock from the sky, you might hit 1... you might hit 10. Since all the Trollocs were rushing from one direction, it's pretty easy to open some earth, throw some rolling rings of fire, shadowspawn choppin' gates, or start some lightning storms and just watch them all die.

 

I'm quoting myself because you all continue to argue an irrelevant point. If you want to start a "How many Trollocs did Rand kill" Thread, all the power to ya.

 

Throw a fireball at 1 trolloc, kill 1 trolloc...

Throw a fireball at a tight group of 100 trollocs, kill 100 trollocs...

 

While you are correct that there is no direct correlation between number of kills and use of power the number does give us an impression of the scale of the battle and it allows us to estimate whether Rand's power has grown since VoG or not. And that latter estimate is very relevant to the topic of this thread.

[JohnMilan]

Page two of this thread Berid Bel said it. Done. Egwene thought he could, he didn't. He's Zen, super cool under pressure. 450 years and The Kinslayers strength and efficiency, problem solved. The kids, we haven't seen a two channeler spawn in the books yet, how do you know can't work that way.....

[Demon_AS]

Don't forget also that Lanfear said as far back in The Shadow Rising that Rand knew not the tenth part of what he could do.

 

Pre-VoG I imagine Rand was maybe up to 1/5 of what he could do - maybe. His improvement was nothing short of miraculous as untrained as he was, but compared with a fully trained AoL Aes Sedai, he must have seemed exactly how all the Forsaken view modern-day Randland channelers: "untrained children".

 

Even mad Lews Therin has referred to Aes Sedai as "half-trained sisters".

 

So... with all that in mind, it comes as no shock to me that Rand Sedai did what he did at Maradon. I suspect that chapter was included for more than just fanboy-pleasing: it's the first demonstration anyone has ever had of an AoL channeler letting loose. We've simply never seen one before, and it clearly demonstrates the amount of knowledge that has been lost since the Breaking.

[Hopefire]

I doubt that Rand has the strength in the One Power to break a 2x13 shield. However, if things went bad, I have no doubt that an earthquake/volcanic eruption/swarm of bees/sudden urge to swear an oath to serve the Lord Dragon from everyone holding him/random visit to the White Tower by every Aes Sedai who follows him/or something would have occurred, causing the women holding the shield to drop it.