Living Heroes of the Horn

[WhiskyJack]

Page 8 - LoC.

'...anything else except death could be Healed in the Age of Legends, that what the Yellow Ajah called healing now was only the crudest battlework.'

This gives me the impression that Nynaeve's healing was the sort used in AoL.

Also, I think it was Asmodean, but one of the Forsaken is explaining that Healing in AoL was dependant on the Healer, with no strength taken from the Healed. This is a distinct characteristic of Nynaeve's Healing.

 

 

 

Cool story, bro.

 

 

P.S: Linking someone back to true source is not actually healing. No body parts were chopped in process of severing.

[CadeForeverfar]

I did mix the two quotes up, thinking Moghedian had said more than she did, but it remains the same really.

[CadeForeverfar]

I was talking about Healing as a whole, or were you not paying attention?

[WhiskyJack]

I was talking about Healing as a whole, or were you not paying attention?

 

 

Whenever someone says new kind of "healing", they are strictly talking about relinking someone to source. It has no other meaning. You might be getting confused by the use of word healing.

[CadeForeverfar]

Cool story, bro.

[WhiskyJack]

[Goldstar]

Whether she invented it or rediscovered it, it makes no difference to the revolution in the third age. If any Aes Sedai were to be bound, it would be her.

[sleepinghour]

Brandon confirmed at JordanCon (thanks to Terez for asking that question!) that channelers bound to the Horn would still be able to channel when called, which makes me think other channelers besides Rand will eventually join their ranks.

 

So my guess would be: Verin, Farstrider, and everyone Min saw with sparks around them in TEotW (which seems to have been the whole group, including Thom). Maybe a few others like Elayne and Aviendha, depending on what they do in AMoL.

[WhiskyJack]

Brandon confirmed at JordanCon (thanks to Terez for asking that question!) that channelers bound to the Horn would still be able to channel when called, which makes me think other channelers besides Rand will eventually join their ranks.

 

So my guess would be: Verin, Farstrider, and everyone Min saw with sparks around them in TEotW (which seems to have been the whole group, including Thom). Maybe a few others like Elayne and Aviendha, depending on what they do in AMoL.

 

 

Considering the fact that wheel is running from a while now (from DO's own mouth) and by your count, a dozen people will join the rank in one age (or even one turning), one will think that there are like 100 thousand hero of horn of more. Unfortunately, there are slightly more than 100 leading to probable conclusion that wheel is lot more choosier than common believe. It's also safe to believe that out of 100 or so heroes, some are there from very creation.

[RyanL24]

 

Cool story, bro.

 

 

P.S: Linking someone back to true source is not actually healing. No body parts were chopped in process of severing.

 

Hmmm.... I see where you are coming from, but I believe in the books they refer to it as healing. "You can't heal stilling" "She discovered how to heal stilling!"

 

Here we go...

Creating a new technique of healing using all of the Five Powers, her ability with Healing is only surpassed by one of the Kin. Due to her exceptional talent and her stubborn determination she finds a way to heal Severing, a feat not thought to be possible even during the Age of Legends.

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Nynaeve

 

 

That shows that you do heal Severing, and also shows that if anybody is going to be bound to the horn for healing abilities, it will be the unnamed Kin.

 

As to the OP... Rand is going to seal the dark one up forever. No more need for heroes of horns...

 

 

[WhiskyJack]

 

 

As to the OP... Rand is going to seal the dark one up forever. No more need for heroes of horns...

 

 

 

 

 

Creator had not sealed DO forever?

[mandersen]

Remember that time is a wheel, and there are no beginnings and endings. Go back far enough and you get the same point you started from. That means if the Horn had ALWAYS been around, all souls who would ever be bound to it would ALREADY be bound. So either there's an expiration date on your hero-ness (or maybe you get kicked off the team after several incarnations of less-than-stellar lives), OR the horn was created and heroes were bound to it a finite number of ages ago and the number of heroes has only built up to its current number in that time. We know the horn has been around a while. At least before the AoL. But how many ages before that? 10? 100? My point is either way, there's no way we can know based on the current number of heroes bound how many we can expect to be added at the end of this age. All we do know is that it doesn't seem to be that common of an occurrence, so it's unlike imo that ALL the major players will join the ranks. Personally I think Perrin and Mat will be added (if they're not already with them, which i know is a point of debate still). But who knows. Maybe this turning of the wheel is a bigger deal than some and therefor more heroes are added when it's over.

[Jemlin]

I don't have my book to quote, but in The Gathering Storm, and pretty sure in the chapter following "The Tower Shakes", Eqwene, exhausted from battling the Seanchan, and in a odd sate of mind reflects on her battle sand says, roughly, she was a Hero of the Horn, the Burning Woman. In the book, all of these are capitalized, and out of the blue. She doesn't reflect on them again, ever.

 

Personally, I think at the battle she was tied to the Wheel as a Hero, and she picked up on that in her exhausted, near dream like state. Which, would make sense being she is a Dreamer, for her to see that. However, I do not think she remembers it after.

[WhiskyJack]

LTT attacked SG with the help of 113 channelers and 10k soldiers. None were added to the wheel (safe to say that many of these channelers were fighting the war against shadow for a while).

[Suttree]

Here we go...

Creating a new technique of healing using all of the Five Powers, her ability with Healing is only surpassed by one of the Kin. Due to her exceptional talent and her stubborn determination she finds a way to heal Severing, a feat not thought to be possible even during the Age of Legends.

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Nynaeve

 

 

That shows that you do heal Severing, and also shows that if anybody is going to be bound to the horn for healing abilities, it will be the unnamed Kin.

 

 

Did you really just use WoT Wiki as a source?

[Shalon Casbin]

LTT launched attack on SG with 113 channelers and 10k soldiers. None were added to the wheel (safe to say that many of these channelers were fighting the war against shadow foe while).

 

 

with all due respect, it is not the same. That was not the LB, and so far in play between all factions; aiel, sea folk, wetlanders, aes sedai, and asha'man Rand has far more than 113 channelers to haul with him to S.G. as well as a VASTLY larger army.

 

If the Patten is repeating would it not make sense that it would know it's own end was near and spin as many of the Heroes back into life before hand so as to self preserve? I know this sounds close to the Wheel having a conscience pretense, but whoever set it into motion obviously put other fail safes in to guard the set up. How else do we explain things like foretelling, Min's viewings, or Egwene's Dreaming? Without them we would have no prophecies; and self fulfilling or not, the cause and effect of them would not bring its biased into this world thereby losing all of the storyline.

 

I'm not suggesting all of the named characters are Heroes of the horn, but it would seem logical that more would be born out in the Pattern's usual way to face the Last Battle (I.E. be great heroes of their time doing great things like Moraine, Nyn, Egwene, elayne, Avend, etc: but without the memories from their prior lives to give them away), the reason they are bound in the first place. To stop the Dark One from halting the Wheel and unraveling creation, than what we are currently looking at which sounds like Mat, Rand, Perrin, and possibly Nyn.

 

 

Also I believe in the series somewhere it recounts the binding of the Heroes to the Horn, the Hundred Heroes and the story surrounding them? I write a lot, so that may have been a Portal Stone type world I'm thinking of but I think it's the books.

 

Someone said something about Rand being able to recognize all of the Heroes of the Horn now that he's gone through his 'change'? I don't remember that could someone site it? I thought he was just able to remember those Lewis Therin had known; such as the Forsaken.

[WhiskyJack]

LTT launched attack on SG with 113 channelers and 10k soldiers. None were added to the wheel (safe to say that many of these channelers were fighting the war against shadow foe while).

 

 

with all due respect, it is not the same. That was not the LB, and so far in play between all factions; aiel, sea folk, wetlanders, aes sedai, and asha'man Rand has far more than 113 channelers to haul with him to S.G. as well as a VASTLY larger army.

 

If the Patten is repeating would it not make sense that it would know it's own end was near and spin as many of the Heroes back into life before hand so as to self preserve? I know this sounds close to the Wheel having a conscience pretense, but whoever set it into motion obviously put other fail safes in to guard the set up. How else do we explain things like foretelling, Min's viewings, or Egwene's Dreaming? Without them we would have no prophecies; and self fulfilling or not, the cause and effect of them would not bring its biased into this world thereby losing all of the storyline.

 

I'm not suggesting all of the named characters are Heroes of the horn, but it would seem logical that more would be born out in the Pattern's usual way to face the Last Battle (I.E. be great heroes of their time doing great things like Moraine, Nyn, Egwene, elayne, Avend, etc: but without the memories from their prior lives to give them away), the reason they are bound in the first place. To stop the Dark One from halting the Wheel and unraveling creation, than what we are currently looking at which sounds like Mat, Rand, Perrin, and possibly Nyn.

 

 

Also I believe in the series somewhere it recounts the binding of the Heroes to the Horn, the Hundred Heroes and the story surrounding them? I write a lot, so that may have been a Portal Stone type world I'm thinking of but I think it's the books.

 

Someone said something about Rand being able to recognize all of the Heroes of the Horn now that he's gone through his 'change'? I don't remember that could someone site it? I thought he was just able to remember those Lewis Therin had known; such as the Forsaken.

 

They took on DO and defeated it/him during the period of time when shadow was winning the war and it was much stronger than it is today. How is their battle not LB? Every battle against DO is last battle.

 

Oh I get it, you think this is unique LB or actually first one? All battles against DO are last battles. They are called LB simply because if DO breaks free, there will be battle no more. This consequence was as real for AoL people as it is this age and as it will for countless ages to come. Pattern doesn't pick heroes for self preservation in every age. Ta'verens do that. Heroes are meant to last forever, for billions of year or whenever DO breaks free and destroys everything.

 

If you are saying that Mat/Perrin are already hero of horn that it's not correct (atleast not specified in book). We have actually met all heroes of horn and Rand did claim that he knew all of them (tGH has a chapter on it). Also old powers are coming back because it is turning of new age. If Egwene was actually born to help wheel win the war, wouldn't you think that there will like 100s of Eqwene? These people are still rare but lost talents are coming back basically to mark this as end of 3rd age.

[Shalon Casbin]

Some of what you said I agree with, but the Dark One has said through the Nae'blis that this is his time he has waited on, that the others times before were all in preparation for this. It could be argued he was attempting to make Rand feel as if it wasn't worth the fight; but I took it to mean he had failed at all of the other battles against him because he had been waiting on the moment of now (current book timeline) to make his move.

 

It's in the chapters where Rand visits Moridin in the strange dreamscape, it's explained to him that that Dark One knew he would lose last time, and the bore would be sealed, but that this time the Great Lord made better plans, was ready to face him unlike he had before. So I guess in a way I am picturing this more like the Last Battle of Last Battles, which is silly when time is a Wheel, but at the same time not silly since the DO wants to stop the Wheel o.0 #dizzy.

 

As for Mat or Perrin, no I don't think they were already heroes, the memories Mat has were gifts from the Fin. The heroes are limited, thus the Wheel couldn't spit a 100 Egwene's out. The nature of things wouldn't allow it, as we know at any one time only a certain number of channelers are able to be 'fed' by the One Source. My proposal is more that the Wheel would send those out best able to deal with the changing/possibly ending world, which by defalt means some of the Heroes would be re-spun out to help face it. I would think since there are a hundred or more, we would see more than the Forsaken + Rand and Birgitte.

 

(Edit: I know the Forsaken aren't heroes but i mention them because they are the only others alive from AoL)

[zidfrekle]

I dont think the heroes get to choose. Gadial indicates only that some are added with each turning of the wheel. Rand is not bound to the horn.

 

From The Great Hunt, chapter 47 "The Grave is No Bar to My Call"

Hawking [said] "Only a few are bound to the Wheel, spun out again and again to work the will of the Wheel in the Pattern of the Ages. You could tell him, Lews Therin, could you but remember when you wore flesh." He was looking at Rand.

 

This seems to indicate that Rand is a Hero of the Horn; how else would Hawking expect Rand to have anything to remember.

 

As for new heros; I doubt that we will see more than one if any as less than 200 have been accumulated sence the beginning of the Wheel.

 

If you look closer, in the same passage as this one, Hawking implies that Hurin may be the next one bound to the horn. I don't have the book with me for quotes, but he says something to the effect that there will be room for new heroes to be added to the group and looks at Hurin. I never noticed it until my latest re-read. :)

[sleepinghour]

I don't have my book to quote, but in The Gathering Storm, and pretty sure in the chapter following "The Tower Shakes", Eqwene, exhausted from battling the Seanchan, and in a odd sate of mind reflects on her battle sand says, roughly, she was a Hero of the Horn, the Burning Woman. In the book, all of these are capitalized, and out of the blue. She doesn't reflect on them again, ever.

 

Personally, I think at the battle she was tied to the Wheel as a Hero, and she picked up on that in her exhausted, near dream like state. Which, would make sense being she is a Dreamer, for her to see that. However, I do not think she remembers it after.

Eh, Egwene just likes to compare herself to a Hero of the Horn. She did the same in Fires of Heaven:

 

Her eyes kept trying to drift shut as she read, fuzzily half-dreaming the stories in the book. She could be as strong as any of these women, as strong and brave as Dunsinin or Nerein or Melisinde or even Birgitte, as strong as Aviendha. Would Nynaeve have sense enough to hold her tongue in front of Amys tonight? She had a vague thought of taking Nynaeve by the scruff of the neck and shaking her. Silly. Nynaeve was years the older. Arch an eyebrow at her. Dunsinin. Birgitte. As hardy and strong as a Maiden of the Spear.

[RyanL24]

Here we go...

Creating a new technique of healing using all of the Five Powers, her ability with Healing is only surpassed by one of the Kin. Due to her exceptional talent and her stubborn determination she finds a way to heal Severing, a feat not thought to be possible even during the Age of Legends.

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Nynaeve

 

 

That shows that you do heal Severing, and also shows that if anybody is going to be bound to the horn for healing abilities, it will be the unnamed Kin.

 

 

Did you really just use WoT Wiki as a source?

 

 

I did. I didn't have time to run home and re-read several books, my bad. Which source would you have preferred that I pulled this information from? And... are you trying to say that healing severing is NOT healing?

 

 

I'm sorry to everybody that I used WoT Wiki as a source. I'll go away now.

[WhiskyJack]

I dont think the heroes get to choose. Gadial indicates only that some are added with each turning of the wheel. Rand is not bound to the horn.

 

From The Great Hunt, chapter 47 "The Grave is No Bar to My Call"

Hawking [said] "Only a few are bound to the Wheel, spun out again and again to work the will of the Wheel in the Pattern of the Ages. You could tell him, Lews Therin, could you but remember when you wore flesh." He was looking at Rand.

 

This seems to indicate that Rand is a Hero of the Horn; how else would Hawking expect Rand to have anything to remember.

 

As for new heros; I doubt that we will see more than one if any as less than 200 have been accumulated sence the beginning of the Wheel.

 

If you look closer, in the same passage as this one, Hawking implies that Hurin may be the next one bound to the horn. I don't have the book with me for quotes, but he says something to the effect that there will be room for new heroes to be added to the group and looks at Hurin. I never noticed it until my latest re-read. :)

 

 

Actually he gets impressed by Hurin's bravery and says that Hurin just might end up as one of the heroes since wheel is always looking for heroes. Hawking has no way of actually knowing if wheel is going to pick a new hero.

[WhiskyJack]

Here we go...

Creating a new technique of healing using all of the Five Powers, her ability with Healing is only surpassed by one of the Kin. Due to her exceptional talent and her stubborn determination she finds a way to heal Severing, a feat not thought to be possible even during the Age of Legends.

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Nynaeve

 

 

That shows that you do heal Severing, and also shows that if anybody is going to be bound to the horn for healing abilities, it will be the unnamed Kin.

 

 

Did you really just use WoT Wiki as a source?

 

 

I did. I didn't have time to run home and re-read several books, my bad. Which source would you have preferred that I pulled this information from? And... are you trying to say that healing severing is NOT healing?

 

 

I'm sorry to everybody that I used WoT Wiki as a source. I'll go away now.

 

In Aes Sedai lingo, it is healing since they believe getting cut off from source is as good as dying (most do). For average Joe, no eyes poked, no hands chopped,...there is nothing to heal.