How was it that Rand had so much power in VoG?

[Entreri]

rand aka lews therin is a just a man. Not a God. The nature of the power in the series comes with limits. If the greatest aes sedai of the last age thinks a circle of 13 can shield any man then that's what is. No amount of enlightment or a eureka moment can change that.

 

as for the battle of maradon i can't believe people are making a huge issue out of it.

 

rand now has the enviable possession of memories of a 400 year old aes sedai with thousands ways to kill and maim shadowsspawn. He simply tapped into that. But even that huge display of power has limits and we all saw what happened when finished killing the darkies.

 

 

It has already been proven that he is not merely a man. His UNIQUE effect on the land after his enlightenment at Dragonmount. His unique effect on Darkfriends. His unique ability to wield the "Light", however much some like Kael would like to deny it. It is clearly stated by Sanderson, "Light and the Power". This is not your regular run of the mill saidin user. His unique ability to break a shield wielded by 13 Aes Sedai, as stated by Egwene. Furthermore, "hearing" LTT.

 

No other man can do what the DR has shown in book 13.

 

The DR is nearly god like and the next best thing to the Creator.

 

Other unique beings exists besides the DR, but they are evil: Fain, possibly Shadar Haran, Slayer and Ishamael.

[WhiskyJack]

All Hail the Mighty DRAGON GOD!

[XXX]

well Egwene thinks she is the equal of Rand...maybe even superior as she wants to "guide" him.

[WhiskyJack]

well Egwene thinks she is the equal of Rand...maybe even superior as she wants to "guide" him.

 

 

Creator speaks through Egwene. All her thoughts are technically correct.

[Kahsm]

rand aka lews therin is a just a man. Not a God. The nature of the power in the series comes with limits. If the greatest aes sedai of the last age thinks a circle of 13 can shield any man then that's what is. No amount of enlightment or a eureka moment can change that.

 

as for the battle of maradon i can't believe people are making a huge issue out of it.

 

rand now has the enviable possession of memories of a 400 year old aes sedai with thousands ways to kill and maim shadowsspawn. He simply tapped into that. But even that huge display of power has limits and we all saw what happened when finished killing the darkies.

 

 

It has already been proven that he is not merely a man. His UNIQUE effect on the land after his enlightenment at Dragonmount. His unique effect on Darkfriends. His unique ability to wield the "Light", however much some like Kael would like to deny it. It is clearly stated by Sanderson, "Light and the Power". This is not your regular run of the mill saidin user. His unique ability to break a shield wielded by 13 Aes Sedai, as stated by Egwene. Furthermore, "hearing" LTT.

 

No other man can do what the DR has shown in book 13.

 

The DR is nearly god like and the next best thing to the Creator.

 

Other unique beings exists besides the DR, but they are evil: Fain, possibly Shadar Haran, Slayer and Ishamael.

 

None of his uniqueness necessarily has anything to do with his channeling. Sanderson linked the "Light" to the eye of the world, not to the creator or him being a Dragon. The eye of the world was created by mere Aes Sedai. Not by the pattern and not by the creator.

 

Edit: to be more civil XXX47 has me all riled up as good trolls do.

[XXX]

 

 

Edit: to be more civil XXX47 has me all riled up as good trolls do.

 

[Superhal]

Dovie'andi se tovya a'troll?

[Entreri]

rand aka lews therin is a just a man. Not a God. The nature of the power in the series comes with limits. If the greatest aes sedai of the last age thinks a circle of 13 can shield any man then that's what is. No amount of enlightment or a eureka moment can change that.

 

as for the battle of maradon i can't believe people are making a huge issue out of it.

 

rand now has the enviable possession of memories of a 400 year old aes sedai with thousands ways to kill and maim shadowsspawn. He simply tapped into that. But even that huge display of power has limits and we all saw what happened when finished killing the darkies.

 

 

It has already been proven that he is not merely a man. His UNIQUE effect on the land after his enlightenment at Dragonmount. His unique effect on Darkfriends. His unique ability to wield the "Light", however much some like Kael would like to deny it. It is clearly stated by Sanderson, "Light and the Power". This is not your regular run of the mill saidin user. His unique ability to break a shield wielded by 13 Aes Sedai, as stated by Egwene. Furthermore, "hearing" LTT.

 

No other man can do what the DR has shown in book 13.

 

The DR is nearly god like and the next best thing to the Creator.

 

Other unique beings exists besides the DR, but they are evil: Fain, possibly Shadar Haran, Slayer and Ishamael.

 

None of his uniqueness necessarily has anything to do with his channeling. Sanderson linked the "Light" to the eye of the world, not to the creator or him being a Dragon. The eye of the world was created by mere Aes Sedai. Not by the pattern and not by the creator.

 

Edit: to be more civil XXX47 has me all riled up as good trolls do.

 

This uniqueness is due to elightenment achieved at Dragonmount.

 

As pointed out several times, he is wielding more than just your regular saidin. Ishamael, Aginor, Balthamael all were trying to use the Eye. Why bother if it is regular saidin? Hell, Ishamael was wielding the True Power.

 

Rand, EoTW: "In the midst of the void, the Light blinded his mind, stunned him with awe".

 

Moraine also states that the EotW could be used to destroy or rebuild Shai'tans prison.

[Kahsm]

rand aka lews therin is a just a man. Not a God. The nature of the power in the series comes with limits. If the greatest aes sedai of the last age thinks a circle of 13 can shield any man then that's what is. No amount of enlightment or a eureka moment can change that.

 

as for the battle of maradon i can't believe people are making a huge issue out of it.

 

rand now has the enviable possession of memories of a 400 year old aes sedai with thousands ways to kill and maim shadowsspawn. He simply tapped into that. But even that huge display of power has limits and we all saw what happened when finished killing the darkies.

 

 

It has already been proven that he is not merely a man. His UNIQUE effect on the land after his enlightenment at Dragonmount. His unique effect on Darkfriends. His unique ability to wield the "Light", however much some like Kael would like to deny it. It is clearly stated by Sanderson, "Light and the Power". This is not your regular run of the mill saidin user. His unique ability to break a shield wielded by 13 Aes Sedai, as stated by Egwene. Furthermore, "hearing" LTT.

 

No other man can do what the DR has shown in book 13.

 

The DR is nearly god like and the next best thing to the Creator.

 

Other unique beings exists besides the DR, but they are evil: Fain, possibly Shadar Haran, Slayer and Ishamael.

 

None of his uniqueness necessarily has anything to do with his channeling. Sanderson linked the "Light" to the eye of the world, not to the creator or him being a Dragon. The eye of the world was created by mere Aes Sedai. Not by the pattern and not by the creator.

 

Edit: to be more civil XXX47 has me all riled up as good trolls do.

 

This uniqueness is due to elightenment achieved at Dragonmount.

 

As pointed out several times, he is wielding more than just your regular saidin.

 

As pointed out several times, no he is not.

 

Is this what this argument has come down to? I mean you don't usually support anything you say except to quote two words and a symbol as if it proves anything outside of context, but I think we've reached a new low. I Almost started typing it all out again, the quotes about the light, the perspectives it's seen from, BS's quotes and the context they come from. But you've never given me any rebuttle except to restate your conclusion with zero evidence, so there's no reason to just repeat myself verbatim, scroll up.

[Entreri]

rand aka lews therin is a just a man. Not a God. The nature of the power in the series comes with limits. If the greatest aes sedai of the last age thinks a circle of 13 can shield any man then that's what is. No amount of enlightment or a eureka moment can change that.

 

as for the battle of maradon i can't believe people are making a huge issue out of it.

 

rand now has the enviable possession of memories of a 400 year old aes sedai with thousands ways to kill and maim shadowsspawn. He simply tapped into that. But even that huge display of power has limits and we all saw what happened when finished killing the darkies.

 

 

It has already been proven that he is not merely a man. His UNIQUE effect on the land after his enlightenment at Dragonmount. His unique effect on Darkfriends. His unique ability to wield the "Light", however much some like Kael would like to deny it. It is clearly stated by Sanderson, "Light and the Power". This is not your regular run of the mill saidin user. His unique ability to break a shield wielded by 13 Aes Sedai, as stated by Egwene. Furthermore, "hearing" LTT.

 

No other man can do what the DR has shown in book 13.

 

The DR is nearly god like and the next best thing to the Creator.

 

Other unique beings exists besides the DR, but they are evil: Fain, possibly Shadar Haran, Slayer and Ishamael.

 

None of his uniqueness necessarily has anything to do with his channeling. Sanderson linked the "Light" to the eye of the world, not to the creator or him being a Dragon. The eye of the world was created by mere Aes Sedai. Not by the pattern and not by the creator.

 

Edit: to be more civil XXX47 has me all riled up as good trolls do.

 

This uniqueness is due to elightenment achieved at Dragonmount.

 

As pointed out several times, he is wielding more than just your regular saidin.

 

As pointed out several times, no he is not.

 

Is this what this argument has come down to? I mean you don't usually support anything you say except to quote two words and a symbol as if it proves anything outside of context, but I think we've reached a new low. I Almost started typing it all out again, the quotes about the light, the perspectives it's seen from, BS's quotes and the context they come from. But you've never given me any rebuttle except to restate your conclusion with zero evidence, so there's no reason to just repeat myself verbatim, scroll up.

 

 

^ See above, my modified post. We have gone over this several times the rest you will have to RAFO.

[Kahsm]

... [stuff already quoted above] ...

 

This uniqueness is due to elightenment achieved at Dragonmount.

 

As pointed out several times, he is wielding more than just your regular saidin. Ishamael, Aginor, Balthamael all were trying to use the Eye. Why bother if it is regular saidin? Hell, Ishamael was wielding the True Power.

 

Rand, EoTW: "In the midst of the void, the Light blinded his mind, stunned him with awe".

 

Moraine also states that the EotW could be used to destroy or rebuild Shai'tans prison.

 

That's an easy question to answer, I don't even have to type it out. RJ already did it.

 

TOR Questions of the Week, August 2004-January 2005

 

Week 20 Question: Why was Aginor so interested in the Eye of the World? He could channel clean saidin anyway so it shouldn't have been an issue?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: He was able to channel clean saidin, true, but only through the "filter" which had been provided by the Dark One just a short time previously, which meant the Dark One would be aware of him channeling wherever he was. Remember, Aginor was the creator of the Trollocs; he is quite able to reason things out clearly, at least in a scientific sense. Also, he wasn't certain whether or not the Dark One also would know what he was doing when he channeled, too. For someone as secretive, competitive, and generally untrustworthy as the one of the Forsaken, the Eye of the World amounted to a valuable asset if it could be secured. To put it simply, Aginor saw a means of channeling without the Dark One looking over his shoulder, and maybe a way to increase his own power at the expense of those who didn't have that advantage. Balthamel might well have been for the long drop, administered by Aginor, if things hadn't worked out differently.

 

Which makes sense because Aginor suggest that he's going to kill Rand, "Why should I have to share power with you?", which would clearly peeve his Master at this point, but he had the link to the pool and could claim he didn't do it.

 

The Dark One's prison was created with pure Saidin, so it makes sense Moir would say that since it's a pool of the stuff.

 

And it was suggested by someone, not me, that Light blinding is just how they describe a first time channeler embracing for real for the first time. However, I do believe there is somethign special about that stuff in t Eye of the World. But I think it has to do with the fact that it's "condensed".

 

RJ: That, among other things. Look, a normal well is like this water glass. [he gestures] The Eye is like a liquid nitrogen canister.

 

So like a [liquid] nitrogen canister, it's highly condensed (gas in liquid form), and when you tap into it, it comes pouring out much harder and stronger than Saidin usually is when men channel it. But your personal limits still apply, which is why Aginor blew himself up.

 

Which also proves, btw, that despite Aginor CLAIMING he could match LTT stroke for stroke, he certainly wasn't as strong as Rand even before Rand could weave anything consciously.

 

Edit: change compressed to condensed for LIQUID nitrogen. Doesn't change the point, but keeps off corrections.

[WhiskyJack]

Bow down to all mighty DRAGON GOD, you mortal!

[Entreri]

... [stuff already quoted above] ...

 

This uniqueness is due to elightenment achieved at Dragonmount.

 

As pointed out several times, he is wielding more than just your regular saidin. Ishamael, Aginor, Balthamael all were trying to use the Eye. Why bother if it is regular saidin? Hell, Ishamael was wielding the True Power.

 

Rand, EoTW: "In the midst of the void, the Light blinded his mind, stunned him with awe".

 

Moraine also states that the EotW could be used to destroy or rebuild Shai'tans prison.

 

That's an easy question to answer, I don't even have to type it out. RJ already did it.

 

TOR Questions of the Week, August 2004-January 2005

 

Week 20 Question: Why was Aginor so interested in the Eye of the World? He could channel clean saidin anyway so it shouldn't have been an issue?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: He was able to channel clean saidin, true, but only through the "filter" which had been provided by the Dark One just a short time previously, which meant the Dark One would be aware of him channeling wherever he was. Remember, Aginor was the creator of the Trollocs; he is quite able to reason things out clearly, at least in a scientific sense. Also, he wasn't certain whether or not the Dark One also would know what he was doing when he channeled, too. For someone as secretive, competitive, and generally untrustworthy as the one of the Forsaken, the Eye of the World amounted to a valuable asset if it could be secured. To put it simply, Aginor saw a means of channeling without the Dark One looking over his shoulder, and maybe a way to increase his own power at the expense of those who didn't have that advantage. Balthamel might well have been for the long drop, administered by Aginor, if things hadn't worked out differently.

 

Which makes sense because Aginor suggest that he's going to kill Rand, "Why should I have to share power with you?", which would clearly peeve his Master at this point, but he had the link to the pool and could claim he didn't do it.

 

The Dark One's prison was created with pure Saidin, so it makes sense Moir would say that since it's a pool of the stuff.

 

And it was suggested by someone, not me, that Light blinding is just how they describe a first time channeler embracing for real for the first time. However, I do believe there is somethign special about that stuff in t Eye of the World. But I think it has to do with the fact that it's "condensed".

 

RJ: That, among other things. Look, a normal well is like this water glass. [he gestures] The Eye is like a liquid nitrogen canister.

 

So like a [liquid] nitrogen canister, it's highly condensed (gas in liquid form), and when you tap into it, it comes pouring out much harder and stronger than Saidin usually is when men channel it. But your personal limits still apply, which is why Aginor blew himself up.

 

Which also proves, btw, that despite Aginor CLAIMING he could match LTT stroke for stroke, he certainly wasn't as strong as Rand even before Rand could weave anything consciously.

 

Edit: change compressed to condensed for LIQUID nitrogen. Doesn't change the point, but keeps off corrections.

 

 

Like I said many times, it is not the regular saidin he is wielding. Regular saidin = water glass (think of it as water). Super enchanced saidin which apparently only Rand can wield without aid/EotW = liquid nitrogen container (think of it as liquid nitrogen). Having wielded such a potent power it is no wonder he could break through a shield of 13 or do the things he did at Maradon. There are "other things" this Well has that RJ did not diclose. Thus, it is hardly the regular saidin that everybody else wields.

 

Wielding this ultra enchanced saidin, "Light" as it being describd many times, apparently blinds and drives DF's mad regardless of line of sight.

 

I think we discussed this point to ad nauseam. It may be that you are misunderstanding, thus I suggest you wait for book 14.

 

 

"Soni: So the Eye of the World is a well, right?

RJ: [pauses] Yes and no. It's in the same class of objects as a well, but on a different scale.

Soni: So could it be refilled by a male channeler?

RJ: No. Remember, lots of Aes Sedai died to make it.

Soni: To keep it pure.

RJ: That, among other things. Look, a normal well is like this water glass. [he gestures] The Eye is like a liquid nitrogen canister.

Soni: So are wells made with the opposite half of the power that they were meant to contain, like Rand did at Shadar Logoth.

RJ: [sly smile] No, they don't work like that."

 

And btw, Q.E.D.

[WhiskyJack]

Liquid nitrogen merely alludes to the fact that "Saidin" in vast quantity was pressed into a very small "well". It's no more potent than regular Saidin. When he said "normal well", he actually meant a well that contained uncompressed liquid. Eye on the other hand had highly compressed Saidin (liquid nitrogen obtained by compressing gaseous form). Aginor could wield this Saidin as easily as Rand could. That's how he changed his appearance. He died because he was trying to match Rand in amount and crossed his limit.

[Entreri]

Liquid nitrogen merely alludes to the fact that "Saidin" in vast quantity was pressed into a very small "well". It's no more potent than regular Saidin. When he said "normal well", he actually meant a well that contained uncompressed liquid. Eye on the other hand had highly compressed Saidin (liquid nitrogen obtained by compressing gaseous form). Aginor could wield this Saidin as easily as Rand could. That's how he changed his appearance. He died because he was trying to match Rand in amount and crossed his limit.

 

It is more potent than normal saidin, as we have ample examples of this now. The effect the "Light" had on Ishamael, the DF's, Maradon, Egwene stating that Rand would break through the shield held by 13 without a struggle and so forth.

 

Aginor could wield it by using the Well, but can he do without the Well? We have seen no cases of this, neither among the Chosen, the Asha'man or any of the Aes Sedai or any other female channelers (female equivalent).

[Kahsm]

such a potent power it is no wonder he could break through a shield of 13

See this is where you lose me and I start thinking you're working on blind faith alone. I love Egwene more than the average Joe here, but even I realize she is not the person to believe in that situation. She was commenting that he was acting LIKE he could. That by no means even suggests that he can do it, just that he was being a cocky SOB at the time.

 

If she was holding the shield herself, and felt Rand test it, sure... but she wasn't, and we have no indication that he did test it. And even if he did, she hadn't spoken to those holding the shield to know that THEY thought he could break it. There is absolutely zero actual evidence eh could break a shield of 13. And "RJ was speaking through his character" is simply not true, it does not happen in WOT.

 

If Rand has access to this special saidin constantly now, where does it come from? Because Aes Sedai made the eye of the world and died doing it. It was not created by the pattern or left by the creator. And LTT had nothing to do with it because it was after the breaking, so it's not anything of the Dragon.

 

I'd guess you'll say a cord to the creator, or to the wheel itself, then probably add "like his children" who don't exist. But I don't see how that links to the eye of the world as Brandon Sanderson said.

 

Jeff Edde on Twitter - 12 January 2011

Can Rand channel Light & Power as a result of touching the EotW, or does he have access to it because he is who he is?

Brandon

It was the power in the Eye, so far as I know.

I even wonder now if Brand made a boo boo regarding the two quotes. The question here seems to be a sneaky one looking for a hint about Maradon (given the date) but I'm not sure Brandon picked up on that, and just responded regarding TEotW (or he did and ninja-RAFOed). I guess if you say nothing long enough I'll start arguing against myself, but that's a small contradiction that this may not refer to the TOM channeling.

 

The other BS L&P quote:

Jeff Edde: Interesting. In EotW, Rand uses Light & Power. Is it significant that he uses Light & Power again in ToM?

Brandon: Yes.

I'd argue there's nothing in TEotW that says he USES the light, he just says it blinds his mind. Though in that whole scene he has no idea how he does anything. He says he was "guided" to Moir and doesn't actually channel himself. But anyway, Brandon says it is significant, but doesn't actually give any indication as to why or how. And we don't know what else the Aes Sedai put in the pool. RJ said the Aes Sedai died not just to keep saidin pure but that is, "among other things". What other things? Likely just to condense it too, but that would only be an other thing. Minus the 's'.

[Kahsm]

Liquid nitrogen merely alludes to the fact that "Saidin" in vast quantity was pressed into a very small "well". It's no more potent than regular Saidin. When he said "normal well", he actually meant a well that contained uncompressed liquid. Eye on the other hand had highly compressed Saidin (liquid nitrogen obtained by compressing gaseous form). Aginor could wield this Saidin as easily as Rand could. That's how he changed his appearance. He died because he was trying to match Rand in amount and crossed his limit.

 

It is more potent than normal saidin, as we have ample examples of this now. The effect the "Light" had on Ishamael, the DF's, Maradon, Egwene stating that Rand would break through the shield held by 13 without a struggle and so forth.

 

Aginor could wield it by using the Well, but can he do without the Well? We have seen no cases of this, neither among the Chosen, the Asha'man or any of the Aes Sedai or any other female channelers (female equivalent).

 

The light Ishamael was scared of was the balefire that shot out of the sword point.

 

"Not the heron marked blade, but a blade of light, a blade of the Light. Even as he raised it, a fiery white bolt shot from the point as if the blade itself had reached out. It touched the nearest fade and the blinding incandescence filled the chamber shining through the halfman like a candle through paper. Burning through them, blinding his eyes to the scene. From the midst of the brilliance he heard a whisper. "Thank you, my son, the Light, the blessed Light." Ba'alzamon's eyes burned like the pit of doom, but he shied back from the sword as if it truly were the Light itself. "Fool, you will destroy yourself, you cannot wield it so. not yet. Not until I teach you."

 

[blah blah blah cutting the black cords then...]

 

Rand pointed the sword at Ba'alzamon's heart. "It is ended!" Light lanced from the blade, coruscating in a shower of fiery sparks, like droplets of molten white metal.

 

Ishamael wanted Rand to convert at that point, so how would Ishamael teach Rand to use anything but the True Power or Saidin? He certainly can't teach "Light Channeling".

 

The underlined part is not proof that it's not the Light itself, because it's Rand's PoV and how would he know? I realize that. But since you seem to think Egwene can know things she has no way of knowing, maybe you'll think Rand is correct when he clearly states that it's not the Light itself because he says 'as if' it was. And that can only help my overall argument ;)

[Manscher]

Going to be lovely to get hands on AMoL to find out who is right on this subject, until then we can simply just sit here and throw stones at each other :P

[Entreri]

such a potent power it is no wonder he could break through a shield of 13

See this is where you lose me and I start thinking you're working on blind faith alone. I love Egwene more than the average Joe here, but even I realize she is not the person to believe in that situation. She was commenting that he was acting LIKE he could. That by no means even suggests that he can do it, just that he was being a cocky SOB at the time.

 

If she was holding the shield herself, and felt Rand test it, sure... but she wasn't, and we have no indication that he did test it. And even if he did, she hadn't spoken to those holding the shield to know that THEY thought he could break it. There is absolutely zero actual evidence eh could break a shield of 13. And "RJ was speaking through his character" is simply not true, it does not happen in WOT.

 

If Rand has access to this special saidin constantly now, where does it come from? Because Aes Sedai made the eye of the world and died doing it. It was not created by the pattern or left by the creator. And LTT had nothing to do with it because it was after the breaking, so it's not anything of the Dragon.

 

I'd guess you'll say a cord to the creator, or to the wheel itself, then probably add "like his children" who don't exist. But I don't see how that links to the eye of the world as Brandon Sanderson said.

 

Jeff Edde on Twitter - 12 January 2011

Can Rand channel Light & Power as a result of touching the EotW, or does he have access to it because he is who he is?

Brandon

It was the power in the Eye, so far as I know.

I even wonder now if Brand made a boo boo regarding the two quotes. The question here seems to be a sneaky one looking for a hint about Maradon (given the date) but I'm not sure Brandon picked up on that, and just responded regarding TEotW (or he did and ninja-RAFOed). I guess if you say nothing long enough I'll start arguing against myself, but that's a small contradiction that this may not refer to the TOM channeling.

 

The other BS L&P quote:

Jeff Edde: Interesting. In EotW, Rand uses Light & Power. Is it significant that he uses Light & Power again in ToM?

Brandon: Yes.

I'd argue there's nothing in TEotW that says he USES the light, he just says it blinds his mind. Though in that whole scene he has no idea how he does anything. He says he was "guided" to Moir and doesn't actually channel himself. But anyway, Brandon says it is significant, but doesn't actually give any indication as to why or how. And we don't know what else the Aes Sedai put in the pool. RJ said the Aes Sedai died not just to keep saidin pure but that is, "among other things". What other things? Likely just to condense it too, but that would only be an other thing. Minus the 's'.

 

In closing:

 

 

Egwene was sure Rand would be able to break through the shield.

 

AND, Egwene saw Rand's expression = "don't make me do something I will regret".

 

So yes, they both knew he could break through the shield held by 13. If this keeps you awake at night, ask Brandon.

 

 

How did Rand get this Light wielding Power? After his enlightenment at Dragonmount. Re-read what Perrin saw, what Nyaneve saw in his mind and finally the effect on DF's.

 

Because he is the Creator's Chosen, he is not like other men and women = special abilities.

 

 

The author's have stated many times through Rand's PoV and others that it is the LIGHT. It is stated very simply and plainly for anyone to read. If you disagree, take it up with Brandon.

 

Of course his children are yet to be born, but we already know their phenomenal abilities = Weave at thought, constantly linked to saidin and saidar. And that is ONLY Aviehnda's children = conceived AFTER enlightenment at Dragonmount. Elayne's children are just regular chumps.

[Superhal]

Going to be lovely to get hands on AMoL to find out who is right on this subject, until then we can simply just sit here and throw stones at each other :P

 

Enjoy it while it lasts, it's no where near as much fun once the answers are known and the questions run out. :(

[Kahsm]

such a potent power it is no wonder he could break through a shield of 13

See this is where you lose me and I start thinking you're working on blind faith alone. I love Egwene more than the average Joe here, but even I realize she is not the person to believe in that situation. She was commenting that he was acting LIKE he could. That by no means even suggests that he can do it, just that he was being a cocky SOB at the time.

 

If she was holding the shield herself, and felt Rand test it, sure... but she wasn't, and we have no indication that he did test it. And even if he did, she hadn't spoken to those holding the shield to know that THEY thought he could break it. There is absolutely zero actual evidence eh could break a shield of 13. And "RJ was speaking through his character" is simply not true, it does not happen in WOT.

 

If Rand has access to this special saidin constantly now, where does it come from? Because Aes Sedai made the eye of the world and died doing it. It was not created by the pattern or left by the creator. And LTT had nothing to do with it because it was after the breaking, so it's not anything of the Dragon.

 

I'd guess you'll say a cord to the creator, or to the wheel itself, then probably add "like his children" who don't exist. But I don't see how that links to the eye of the world as Brandon Sanderson said.

 

Jeff Edde on Twitter - 12 January 2011

Can Rand channel Light & Power as a result of touching the EotW, or does he have access to it because he is who he is?

Brandon

It was the power in the Eye, so far as I know.

I even wonder now if Brand made a boo boo regarding the two quotes. The question here seems to be a sneaky one looking for a hint about Maradon (given the date) but I'm not sure Brandon picked up on that, and just responded regarding TEotW (or he did and ninja-RAFOed). I guess if you say nothing long enough I'll start arguing against myself, but that's a small contradiction that this may not refer to the TOM channeling.

 

The other BS L&P quote:

Jeff Edde: Interesting. In EotW, Rand uses Light & Power. Is it significant that he uses Light & Power again in ToM?

Brandon: Yes.

I'd argue there's nothing in TEotW that says he USES the light, he just says it blinds his mind. Though in that whole scene he has no idea how he does anything. He says he was "guided" to Moir and doesn't actually channel himself. But anyway, Brandon says it is significant, but doesn't actually give any indication as to why or how. And we don't know what else the Aes Sedai put in the pool. RJ said the Aes Sedai died not just to keep saidin pure but that is, "among other things". What other things? Likely just to condense it too, but that would only be an other thing. Minus the 's'.

 

In closing:

 

 

Egwene was sure Rand would be able to break through the shield.

 

AND, Egwene saw Rand's expression = "don't make me do something I will regret".

 

So yes, they both knew he could break through the shield held by 13. If this keeps you awake at night, ask Brandon.

 

 

How did Rand get this Light wielding Power? After his enlightenment at Dragonmount. Re-read what Perrin saw, what Nyaneve saw in his mind and finally the effect on DF's.

 

Because he is the Creator's Chosen, he is not like other men and women = special abilities.

 

 

The author's have stated many times through Rand's PoV and others that it is the LIGHT. It is stated very simply and plainly for anyone to read. If you disagree, take it up with Brandon.

 

Of course his children are yet to be born, but we already know their phenomenal abilities = Weave at thought, constantly linked to saidin and saidar. And that is ONLY Aviehnda's children = conceived AFTER enlightenment at Dragonmount. Elayne's children are just regular chumps.

 

Egwene read his face? oh come on! Women don't know jack about men channeling, but she can read Rand's strength? Yes his face was cocky, he doesn't have to know he can break it, just act like it. How would Rand even know he could break it? Even LTT couldn't break it as he said in Rand's mind. But yes yes, you say this PARTICULAR incarnation of Rand's soul is somehow greater than the infinite various other incarnations from past turnings of the wheel. But here's a quote about judging strength:

 

Linda: We see a lot of characters making estimates about how strong such and such a channeler is or will be, but when we're talking about so far unfulfilled potential, how accurately can it be judged? Especially if the channeler making the judgment doesn't know how much training the channeler being judged previously has had?

 

RJ: One of the themes of the book is that no one knows everything there is to know. Another is that just because you believe something to be true, doesn't mean that it is true. Someone can judge a current strength. This is a difference between men and women. A woman that can channel can very accurate judgment of another woman's strength whether she is channeling or not if she is standing close enough. Among Aes Sedai at least, knowledge of potential strength, especially if it is thought to be a great strength, becomes very widespread. Among men the circumstances are different. A man who can channel cannot judge the strength of another unless the other is channeling the One Power of holding the One Power, and even then all he can judge is how much of the One Power the other man is holding. He can't say how much he can hold. There are great differences between men and women in the One Power.

 

You give Egwene far too much credit.

 

And a similar question on shielding was asked of Brandon. He said he didn't know and would have to MAFO. I guess that's proof positive that that scene does not prove what you think it proves. If it was meant to convey what you suggest, he would know for certain. Note, this was asked after tGS, 3 months before TOM's publish date (thus it must have been written already).

 

Leth Filorn on Twitter - 13 August 2010 7:01 pm

Could thirteen Aes Sedai linked shield Rand while he was channeling using Callandor. What about with Choedan Kal at full power?

Brandon - 8:07 pm

I think I'm going to MAFO those. (Which means email me, say I said I'd ask Maria, and we'll add them to her list.)

8:08 pm

I'm pretty sure of the answer10 , but I don't want to take the time to sort though the notes and look it up for certain while editing.

[David Selig]

Of course his children are yet to be born, but we already know their phenomenal abilities = Weave at thought, constantly linked to saidin and saidar. And that is ONLY Aviehnda's children = conceived AFTER enlightenment at Dragonmount. Elayne's children are just regular chumps.

 

Wait, so this special Light powers Rand now has are inheritable and that's the explanation for the talent of Aviendha's children? That would be so cheesy, I hope this theory is not true.

[Kahsm]

Of course his children are yet to be born, but we already know their phenomenal abilities = Weave at thought, constantly linked to saidin and saidar. And that is ONLY Aviehnda's children = conceived AFTER enlightenment at Dragonmount. Elayne's children are just regular chumps.

 

Wait, so this special Light powers Rand now has are inheritable and that's the explanation for the talent of Aviendha's children? That would be so cheesy, I hope this theory is not true.

 

That's what I said. It makes no sense that this UNIQUE power given to this particular "Champion of the Light" of this particular age is genetic...

[Generic_Aelfinn_2]

I think everyone forgets that Rand is Ta'veren(or however you spell it). it seems that after VoG, he has become even MORE strongly ta'veren.

 

Egwene's reaction is simply the ta'veren effect.

 

I'm also wondering about the mechanics of breaking a shield held by multiple channelers. I don't believe anyone has broken a shield created by a circle except Rand. I have an inkling that when a shield is being HELD by a circle, a sufficiently strong channeler can actually break it. It's just that a circle of 13 can CUT any male channeler off, but they might not be necessarily able to hold him.

[WhiskyJack]

This is all fiction, people do realize that don't they? I have a feeling that..

 

This thread has ceased to make sense long time ago. Now we are discussing special Saidin and Egwene's feeling.