Ranking the Forsaken

[Arhior]

ok you got me there... I admit im not a good thinker but in my eyes Mesana still needs to be lower in the teers cause she... shes most of the time in the background (correct my if im wrong).

[Elan Tedronai]

its sad when a womanizer of all things gave the lord dragon his hardest challenge of all. not the overrated ishy or his sock puppet lanfear

[Durinax]

its sad when a womanizer of all things gave the lord dragon his hardest challenge of all. not the overrated ishy or his sock puppet lanfear

makes sense thouhg, womanizing is mind games.

 

although I dont think he messed with rand the most, he messed more with the AS through his reincarnated self

[hazelkrs1]

2. Mesaana - I really think a lot of people are REALLY underestimating the amount of damage to the light that Mesaana has done with her subterfuge in the tower. It's obvious she helped manipulate things to get Elaida to become Amyrlin, and this had such huge ramifications it's scary. Not just the white tower split, or the handling of Rand, or making enough distractions that noone was really ready for the Seanchan attack on the WT, but in general the Light's second strongest weapon against the DO was the WT after Rand, and it was desperately needed to help qualm the bubbles of evil, restore order to several kingdoms in disarray, and start hunting the forsaken with Rand, but it wasn't able to do any of those things well because of one Forsaken. Pretty effective if you ask me.

I think people overestimate Mesaana, attributing to her what the WT, frankly, was perfectly capable of achieving without her.

 

Start with Elaida becoming Amyrlin. Elaida initiated this, telling Alviarin "Walk with me."

[scenario with Mesaana] Mesaana thinks having a Red in charge of the White Tower with a BA second is a Good Thing and orders the BA to support it.

[scenario without Mesaana] Alviarin thinks having a Red in charge of the White Tower with a BA second is a Good Thing and orders the BA to support it.

 

You can play this out with EVERYTHING Mesaana can try to claim as a triumph. Elaida was a rabid Red who wholeheartedly believed in controlling the Dragon Reborn. She was decisive and bold, if nuts. She initiated and ordered the kidnappings of not only Rand, but the kings of Arad Doman and Illian as well. She hated the Blue, particularly Moiraine and Siuan, and was never going to trust them, so she disbanded the entire Ajah. Without Mesaana, these things play out exactly as they did.

 

Further, Mesaana's control was pretty weak. Not only was Elaida too headstrong to control, but Mesaana had to discipline Alviarin for going beyond what Mesaana explicitly allowed as she tried to rein in Elaida.

 

Basically, all Mesaana did was sit in the Tower and worry Egwene until she was captured. (Hell, the events that most worried Egwene weren't even Mesaana's work - it was the Seanchans'.) The only thing you can really give her credit for is - after the Tower had split and Salidar had already decided to depose Elaida - furthering the split between Ajahs by some nasty underhanded subterfuge.

 

Someone else already said it, but I think Mesaana was able to put Elaida on the seat a lot easier than Alviarin would have been able to. Plus, you say Elaida was all power-crazy and all that jazz, and she could have easily been compelled to think being an authoritative dictator would be the best course of action when it was actually the best way to create havoc. Elaida was definitely ambitious before hand, but some subtle compulsion could have sent her over the edge, which she cosied up with and made her home. Of course, I'm not sure how it would play out with her marath'damane though; her handler might be able to see the compulsion, then again maybe not.