Did Lanfear love Rand?

[Terez]

This is based on an argument being made by Emu on the Loose (who gave me a wonderful sig quote). Specifically, this post of this thread. (You are welcome, Ares.)

[Pandemonium]

Well, she almost rode Rand like the cowboy that he is back in TSR. Asmodean got in the way and cock-blocked her though. But no one ever said that lust=love

[capuga]

I think she loved LTT in her own way. She transfered that love to Rand but she didn't really know or love Rand himself. But I don't think that she would have ever been into LTT if he didn't have power so that was certainly part of his attraction to her.

[Nightstrike]

The Quotemistress has probably already quoted this somewhere, hasn't she?

 

Letter to Carolyn Fusinato from RJ - 1 February 1994

 

 

Lanfear holding back and doing good for Rand's sake? Ha! She was psychically fixed on possessing a man who never loved her. Even with that, her desire for Rand was as much a desire for power as for him. To be the one to deliver the Dragon Reborn to the service of the Shadow; that would set her above the other Forsaken. And learning that the access ter'angreal for the two huge sa'angreal were still in existence....Sure, she wanted his love--not least because it had been denied her; Lanfear was a woman who claimed a right to anything she wanted--wanted his devotion, but even more than his body, Lanfear wanted power, the power possibly to replace the Dark One, even to replace the Creator. For Rand's sake? Not a chance.

Doesn't sound much like love to me.

[Terez]

Yeah, I posted that one in the thread linked in the OP. truly, there's a fine line between the first two options. Depends on your personal definition of 'love'.

[Smittyphi]

I voted delusional. She loved Rand as he was her access to power. She could love him for that reason.

[Pygmalion79]

I voted delusional. She loved Rand as he was her access to power. She could love him for that reason.

I would agree that Lanfear loved LTT in the way that a painter loves a fine brush -- he loves it because of the role it plays in something he loves for its own sake -- but I think that this sense of "love" doesn't fit with what we normally expect interpersonal love to consist in, because we rightly deny that she really loves him. Everything is related back to her quest for power and nothing in her love is concerned with LTT's own life and concerns.

[Terez]

I'm happy no one has nitpicked Lews Therin / Rand yet.

[ryanphlp2002]

I voted delusional too, I think it's what she would consider love and the poor girl was confused by it's rejection. I must say I admire/think he's crazy to turn her down....I mean she must be hard to resist from her description...

[Terez]

Only if you are incredibly shallow. Though I admit most men are, when it comes to that.

[ryanphlp2002]

Well as a teenage boy I honestly doubt I (or any that I knew) would have that kind of fortitude to a beautiful woman offering themselves on a plate.....but then I never have met a megalomaniac yet, that I know of!

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

Hah! Given the choices, count me for "delusional." =)

[OptimusPrime]

Well, she almost rode Rand like the cowboy that he is back in TSR. Asmodean got in the way and cock-blocked her though.

 

I would absolutely put this as my sig if I hadnt just changed it to something that needs to stay on.

[Threepy]

The word 'love' is difficult to define - it changes from culture to culture. Lanfear seemed to have loved Lews Therin (at one point), but I'm not so sure about Rand. It was obsession. But she did help him out a lot early on in the series, and didn't always seem so obsessive. She loved him in her own way. But that still means love.

I'd have loved Rand to go for it. Would have made the story more interesting. He was male, and she was ridiculously attractive. We're a shallow gender. :P She is definitely my favourite Forsaken, and I loved the epilogue of ToM purely because Lanfear is back in the picture.

[Nightstrike]

She "loved" what she could get from him, just like some "love" chocolate. I assumed we were talking about the love couples feel towards each other. Some couples anyway.

 

If we're talking about the "I love chocolate" kind of love, then alternative #2 is the correct answer.

[Guest PiotrekS]

Only if you are incredibly shallow. Though I admit most men are, when it comes to that.

 

Wow, you're a real good Two Rivers woman, aren't you?

 

Lanfear loved LTT in her own, distorted way - she was crazy, after all.

[Nightstrike]

Lanfear loved LTT in her own, distorted way - she was crazy, after all.

Wow, I'm really surprised about the result from this poll. Just out of curiousity - how do you define "love"?

[Erunion]

"From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

There are several Greek words for love, as the Greek language distinguishes how the word is used. Ancient Greek has four distinct words for love: agápe, éros, philía, and storgē. However, as with other languages, it has been historically difficult to separate the meanings of these words. Nonetheless, the senses in which these words were generally used are given below.

 

Agápe (ἀγάπη agápē[1]) means "love" (brotherly love) in modern day Greek, such as in the term s'agapo (Σ'αγαπώ), which means "I love you". In Ancient Greek, it often refers to a general affection or deeper sense of "true love" rather than the attraction suggested by "eros". Agape is used in the biblical passage known as the "love chapter", 1 Corinthians 13, and is described there and throughout the New Testament as sacrificial love. Agape is also used in ancient texts to denote feelings for a good meal, one's children, and the feelings for a spouse. It can be described as the feeling of being content or holding one in high regard.

 

Éros (ἔρως érōs[2]) is passionate love, with sensual desire and longing. The Modern Greek word "erotas" means "intimate love;" however, eros does not have to be sexual in nature. Eros can be interpreted as a love for someone whom you love more than the philia, love of friendship. It can also apply to dating relationships as well as marriage. Plato refined his own definition: Although eros is initially felt for a person, with contemplation it becomes an appreciation of the beauty within that person, or even becomes appreciation of beauty itself. Plato does not talk of physical attraction as a necessary part of love, hence the use of the word platonic to mean, "without physical attraction." Plato also said eros helps the soul recall knowledge of beauty, and contributes to an understanding of spiritual truth. Lovers and philosophers are all inspired to seek truth by eros. The most famous ancient work on the subject of eros is Plato's Symposium, which is a discussion among the students of Socrates on the nature of eros.

 

Philia (φιλία philía[3]) means friendship in modern Greek. It is a dispassionate virtuous love, a concept developed by Aristotle. It includes loyalty to friends, family, and community, and requires virtue, equality and familiarity. In ancient texts, philos denoted a general type of love, used for love between family, between friends, a desire or enjoyment of an activity, as well as between lovers.

 

Storge (στοργή storgē[4]) means "affection" in ancient and modern Greek. It is natural affection, like that felt by parents for offspring. Rarely used in ancient works, and then almost exclusively as a descriptor of relationships within the family. It is also known to express mere acceptance or putting up with situations, as in "loving" the tyrant."

 

 

According to those definitions (which I usually use when I think about 'Love'), Lanfear felt Éros for Rand, and thought she felt more. She was wrong, but hey, she was crazy. Hard to blame a crazy person for not knowing what they truly feel, eh?

[Nightstrike]

Would she have "loved" Lews Therin Telamon (=the man), if he had been burnt out without hope of being Healed?

[Nightstrike]

Wasn't there this comment in that Harry Potter movie (when they made "love potions") where their professor said "of course, it doesn't create actual love, just infatuation" (or something like that)?

 

Of course, I don't think she had infatuation for the man, just for what he could bring her. Take away his channeling ability, and no more feelings.

[Guest PiotrekS]

Lanfear loved LTT in her own, distorted way - she was crazy, after all.

Wow, I'm really surprised about the result from this poll. Just out of curiousity - how do you define "love"?

 

Erunion has already provided a much better definition than I would have

 

I agree with it - generally love is a complex feeling, in which you have at least two main components - first, you want the person you love to be happy. Second, you want that person to love you as well, and also exclusively "belong to" you. It is also a sexual component.

 

Since Lanfear was crazy, megalomaniac and egomaniac, the only "love" she could feel contained almost exclusively component two (Eros, like Erunion said)

 

Would she have "loved" Lews Therin Telamon (=the man), if he had been burnt out without hope of being Healed?

 

That's a good question and a nice empirical test whether she loved him in any way. But we don't know what would happen, do we?

 

I don't think that her feelings for LTT were 100% manipulation and power-mongering (I agree it was 90%), because of this short moment of "anguish" she showed when he ultimately refused her. It felt like something more than "ok, my plan A for getting to power didn't work out, time to move to plan B".

[Erunion]

Keep this in mind - the girl's crazy! She may only have loved power, but she is more than capable of deluding herself into believing that she loved LTT/Rand, the person. Doesn't mean that she really did, but she thought she did (she surely had a very strong attraction for him, even if this was because of power). So, I stand by my decision. Lanfear loved Rand in her own, 'special', way.

 

Another interesting question - is Lanfear mentally/emotionally capable of feeling 'true love' (which is, according to my definition, a combination of all four of the Greek definitions of love)?

I'm not sure if she is. Mierin might have been emotionally and mentally capable of 'true love', but Lanfear's atrocities during the War of Power and her subsequent fall have left her mind too damaged to be capable of such feelings.

But that's just my opinion.

 

Also, for everyone saying 'Lanfear's a hottie! Why didn't Rand get with her?' - I, as a guy (who is definitely attracted to attractive females) will tell you that it's just not worth it. That girl is crazy! (And I have no wish to enter a relationship with someone incapable of feeling more than just 'eros' for me. But hey, that's me, the incurable romantic).

 

So yeah. Lanfear is scary.

[sVieira151]

Well, she almost rode Rand like the cowboy that he is back in TSR. Asmodean got in the way and cock-blocked her though. But no one ever said that lust=love

 

Ah, getting sigged

 

 

Also, I voted for option 1. I don't see it any other way. She could 'love' LTT himself, but but he way she is described in the book I just can't see any other but option 1 for her.

[Ferdawoon]

In the Age of Legends, Mierin Eronaile was a researcher at the Collam Daan, the huge floating university-sphere. When they were both young learners of the One Power, she was Lews Therin Telamon's lover.

Lews Therin himself eventually left her because she loved the prestige of being his lover more than she loved Lews Therin himself.

She was quite bitter over this, and made several blatant and public attempts to get him back from his wife Ilyena Therin Moerelle. Lews Therin, however, always rebuffed her advances, as he loved his wife and knew Mierin's character too well.

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Lanfear#History

 

Reading this it is obviousthat she at least loved both LTT and the power and status that he represented. The middle quote kinda imply that even if she did love him or at least was affectionate about him, that she loved the status more.

 

When she awoke from the seal, she immediately sought Rand al'Thor out as the Dragon Reborn, the reincarnation of her former lover. She came to him under the guise of Selene, (pronounced: seh-LEEN) a beautiful young woman, and sought to snare him by appealing to his strong desire to protect women who seem helpless. She often used her beauty to try and seduce Rand; she would constantly urge him to grasp glory and power, although he refused. She disappeared near Cairhien, where she claimed to be from, but re-appeared to both Perrin and Mat to try to seduce them with power and glory.

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Lanfear#Mistress_of_Disguises

 

Reading this it is a bit more obvious. When Rand refused to accept the power and glory that he used to be as LTT she kinda ditched him and tried to seduce one of the others who also had fame and power in their future.

Sure it is someone's interpretation as it is a Wiki, but put in that context at least, I'd say that even if she did love LTT, she also loved the power he represented.

[The Fisher King]

I think she loved LTT in her own way. She transfered that love to Rand but she didn't really know or love Rand himself. But I don't think that she would have ever been into LTT if he didn't have power so that was certainly part of his attraction to her.

 

+ This

 

 

- Fish