Is Elayne going to die? Moiraine possibly Queen?

[Kal11]

So I had a thought occur to me and haven't seen the subject broached on here. I had started to wonder if Moiraine would possibly take the Sun Throne in Cairhein (assuming she survives the last battle of course) now that her abilities to channel have been limited, her life's mission completed and having hooked up with Thom. She obviously has the strongest claim to the throne regardless of Elayne's living or dying, anyone that has read NS will recall her efforts to not be placed there. Her biggest issue with the matter was not being diverted from her search for the young Dragon.

 

Given the serious reduction in her abilities, she even offered to throw away her new angreal and be virtually powerless if Thom wished it, and Thom now seeming to be her first priority (aside from Rand and TG of course) leaving the WT to claim her birthright would not be such a surprise. In fact if Elayne is dead then having another AS sit on the throne would be the best bet for the WT. She certainly has a husband well versed in being a royal consort and doing court stuff lol.

 

As far as Elayne's death goes I would assume she is dead based on Avi's vision in Rhuidean. We see Caemlyn with a new queen (Talana) just two generations down the line from the current time. We see Avi's young daughter Padra (there are still non-channelers alive from the last battle) during the start of a war with the Seanchan, then the next generation (Oncala) comments on the war having lasted 40 years at that point. Estimating a 60ish year span between TG and that scene of Oncala and Talana there is no reason Elayne (a very strong channeler who would only be 80 or 90ish) should be dead. I also do not see her giving up the throne for any reason, just doesn't fit her personality.

[Sid]

Not to say that it's impossible, certainly, but Moiraine has said a number of times that she has no desire to be put on the throne of Cairhien. She may reconsider after the LB due to her mission being effectively finished (assuming a positive result). I still wouldn't count on it, though.

 

As for Elayne, she may die but there's no certainty to it. I believe Aviendha's visions are a warning rather than a future set in stone. If she does nothing, the future will happen as she saw it (if the DO doesn't actually win this time). If she uses this knowledge to change Rand's plan's for the Aiel and at least some of their attitudes, they will not be destroyed as she saw. I doubt the ending that Sanderson read and called "Fantastic" would lead readers to believe that such a future was in store for the characters we've followed for 20+ years.

[Sleeper]

As for Elayne, she may die but there's no certainty to it. I believe Aviendha's visions are a warning rather than a future set in stone. If she does nothing, the future will happen as she saw it (if the DO doesn't actually win this time). If she uses this knowledge to change Rand's plan's for the Aiel and at least some of their attitudes, they will not be destroyed as she saw. I doubt the ending that Sanderson read and called "Fantastic" would lead readers to believe that such a future was in store for the characters we've followed for 20+ years.

Agreed. The way I see it, Avi has already changed the possible course of the future by going through those columns, so I doubt that the future she saw is going to be the one that happens.

 

However, if the future she saw had Elayne dying, that does show that there will probably be a significant danger to her in the future, which may or may not be in AMoL.

[Kal11]

Not to say that it's impossible, certainly, but Moiraine has said a number of times that she has no desire to be put on the throne of Cairhien. She may reconsider after the LB due to her mission being effectively finished (assuming a positive result). I still wouldn't count on it, though.

 

As for Elayne, she may die but there's no certainty to it. I believe Aviendha's visions are a warning rather than a future set in stone. If she does nothing, the future will happen as she saw it (if the DO doesn't actually win this time). If she uses this knowledge to change Rand's plan's for the Aiel and at least some of their attitudes, they will not be destroyed as she saw. I doubt the ending that Sanderson read and called "Fantastic" would lead readers to believe that such a future was in store for the characters we've followed for 20+ years.

 

 

With Moiraine I think her circumstances have changed drastically enough to make her reconsider her path. Given her attitude at the end of ToM and her interaction with Thom I don't know how important the WT and AS are to her at this juncture, I have a feeling that her priorities have shifted one way or another. Not something I feel is certain anyhow, just throwing an idea out there.

 

As far as Avi's vision goes I agree that is not the future that will happen, she will do something to change it. With that said it does not mean safety for Elayne by any means. She is not Aiel for one thing, seeing the future of Caemlyn was incidental to the story of the Aiel decline. I find it unlikely that Elayne's potential death has any link to the salvation or destruction of the Aiel. Andor was uninvolved with the Aiel/Seanchan war and had extended peace in the vision prior to the scheming done by Oncala. If Elayne does in fact die it would leave TG as the most likely time period and cause for such event. How else would such a powerful channeler die in a time of peace with the DO and Forsaken vanquished?

 

Regardless I am an optimist I will not believe Elayne makes it until I see it.

[sleepinghour]

My guess is that Moiraine is going to become Elayne's Aes Sedai advisor in Cairhien. Thom was conveniently pardoned by Elayne already in ToM for any crimes committed in both Andor and Cairhien. He and Moiraine can keep the Cairhienin nobles off Elayne's back while still being free to travel whenever they want. I think they'd be happier that way than ruling Cairhien themselves.

[Terez]

So I had a thought occur to me and haven't seen the subject broached on here. I had started to wonder if Moiraine would possibly take the Sun Throne in Cairhein (assuming she survives the last battle of course) now that her abilities to channel have been limited, her life's mission completed and having hooked up with Thom. She obviously has the strongest claim to the throne regardless of Elayne's living or dying, anyone that has read NS will recall her efforts to not be placed there. Her biggest issue with the matter was not being diverted from her search for the young Dragon.

Agreed. This is one of my pet theories, though I don't think that Elayne will necessarily die. I can see her giving up the throne of Andor when her daughter is old enough to rule, so that she can go live in anonymity with Rand and Aviendha. I think there is more foreshadowing for Moiraine becoming queen of Cairhien than there was for her and Thom. Most seem to disagree, but that doesn't mean they're right. ;)

[David Selig]

So I had a thought occur to me and haven't seen the subject broached on here. I had started to wonder if Moiraine would possibly take the Sun Throne in Cairhein (assuming she survives the last battle of course) now that her abilities to channel have been limited, her life's mission completed and having hooked up with Thom. She obviously has the strongest claim to the throne regardless of Elayne's living or dying, anyone that has read NS will recall her efforts to not be placed there. Her biggest issue with the matter was not being diverted from her search for the young Dragon.

Since Elayne is already the Queen of Cairhien, if she dies, logically the persons with the strongest claim to the Sun Throne would be her children and then her brothers. The situation is different than what it was back in New Spring. And if we want to get really technical, Taringail was older than Moiraine, so if the Cairhien rules for succession were typical primogeniture, Galad, Gawyn and Elayne would've had stronger claims than Moiraine.

 

Though in Cairhien it seemed that the Succession is not defined by strict rules of lineage and is more of a "might makes right" among the top nobles in the two most powerful Houses. Moiraine had older sisters, yet she was considered to have a better claim, and nobody seem to care that Elayne has older brothers. Also the last monarch before Elayne was not Damodred, but Riatin, yet Elayne's claim is repeatedly said to be as good as anyone's. So this gives Moiraine a chance if she decides to contest for the Sun Throne against her Trakand relatives and possibly Galad.

 

Anyway, Terez has made some good points before and had made me rethink somewhat my view on Moiraine's desire for the Sun Throne. I still think she probably wouldn't want it, but there's a decent chance she would. It certainly would be fun to see Thom as a King (or Prince Consrt, whatever the title is) there, she did so much to eliminate the competition and clear the way by killing Galldrian and Taringail. ;)

[mb]

Elayne's death would be after she gives birth to Rand's twins. There might be a chance for she having a "full" lifespan.

 

About Aviendha's visions, Encyclopaedia was/is not sure of them being the future or a possible future.

 

About Thom & Moiraine, they could probably be Elayne's advisers. Or maybe Elayne might make them stewards. Or Elayne might merge the countries into one and choose one capitol for the whole merging.

[jemron]

This is a truly great theory and I've never heard it before! Thanks for the fresh ideas. I like it a lot. Even if Elayne ends up surviving, Thom and Moiraine as King and Queen of Cairhien would seriously be perfect! Elayne can't truly handle two kingdoms anyway. Good stuff.

[Terez]

This is a truly great theory and I've never heard it before! Thanks for the fresh ideas. I like it a lot. Even if Elayne ends up surviving, Thom and Moiraine as King and Queen of Cairhien would seriously be perfect! Elayne can't truly handle two kingdoms anyway. Good stuff.

You must have missed the great flamewars I had about it around TOM release time (I think both before and after). If any of you are members at Theoryland, I have a faction for this theory. (Damn, just noticed it says Elayne will never take the throne. But at least she hasn't been officially crowned yet! She said that would have to wait.)

[DPT24]

I think the idea of the Andor/Carahien dual monarchy is horrible, so I hope Moraine get's the throne, although I think it's unlikely. Seriously, all a dual monarchy is going to do is damage Andor. What Andor really needs is more scheming and corrupt nobles, right???

[herid]

So I had a thought occur to me and haven't seen the subject broached on here. I had started to wonder if Moiraine would possibly take the Sun Throne in Cairhein (assuming she survives the last battle of course) now that her abilities to channel have been limited, her life's mission completed and having hooked up with Thom. She obviously has the strongest claim to the throne regardless of Elayne's living or dying, anyone that has read NS will recall her efforts to not be placed there. Her biggest issue with the matter was not being diverted from her search for the young Dragon.

 

Given the serious reduction in her abilities, she even offered to throw away her new angreal and be virtually powerless if Thom wished it, and Thom now seeming to be her first priority (aside from Rand and TG of course) leaving the WT to claim her birthright would not be such a surprise. In fact if Elayne is dead then having another AS sit on the throne would be the best bet for the WT. She certainly has a husband well versed in being a royal consort and doing court stuff lol.

 

As far as Elayne's death goes I would assume she is dead based on Avi's vision in Rhuidean. We see Caemlyn with a new queen (Talana) just two generations down the line from the current time. We see Avi's young daughter Padra (there are still non-channelers alive from the last battle) during the start of a war with the Seanchan, then the next generation (Oncala) comments on the war having lasted 40 years at that point. Estimating a 60ish year span between TG and that scene of Oncala and Talana there is no reason Elayne (a very strong channeler who would only be 80 or 90ish) should be dead. I also do not see her giving up the throne for any reason, just doesn't fit her personality.

Count me a skeptic on this one. First of all, personally I firmly believe that almost nothing from Avi's visions will come to pass. The defeat of the DO and the Peace of the Dragon in some form (which might be very different from the visions) will happen but little else. The whole point of the visions was to show that the Aiel need to change their ways and Avi will do something about it. From literary perspective (if not from the in-story one) this is very clear.

 

But even if you don't buy that there is no reason to believe that Elayne is dead even in the visions. The visions never say that Rand is dead either. The Aiel say that he left them, not that he died. That may mean that he just went away somewhere and taken his girls with him. Also, even in the visions Elayne's descendants hold the Throne of Andor. Why would they give up the throne of Cairhien? They'd have the strongest claim for it, not Moiraine. I don't see that happening, especially after Elayne spent some considerable screen time in ToM forging future ties between Andor and Cairhien.

[dscott8]

Elayne's going to put Morgase on the throne of Cairihen. Mom gave up a kingdom for Elayne, so payback's due. Besides, what else does Morgase know how to do, except be a lady's maid? Morgase's blood claim is as strong as Elayne's.

 

As for visions down the road, I believe Avi went through the columns so that the world could be warned of the possible problems coming, and avoid them. I don't think the future Avi saw is going to happen -- not if she can help it.

[David Selig]

Morgase has no blood claim for the Sun Throne. Elayne's claim comes from her father, who was a Prince of Cairhien. Morgase's only claim was through this marriage, but with Taringail long dead and her being married again now, that's really weak.

 

Besides, it would be pretty hard to convince the Cairhien nobles to accept a full Andoran as a Queen. And let's not forget that Rahvin sent the Andoran armies to Cairhien in Morgase's name, which certainly didn't help her popularity there.

[Ace Sedai]

I don't thinks so.

Not that I have evidence either way but Moiraine enjoys traveling around can't see her settling down to the drudgery of ruling.

Sidebar-

I'm dying to know what she has to help Rand with{Min's viewing}.

[randsc]

I hope not.

 

If Elayne dies (and I wouldn't mind that a bit), I don't want it to be at the last battle. I want it to be when post-TG revolutions sweep the world, casting aside all of the lords, ladies, princesses, kings, queens, empresses and all the rest of that human dreck. Which would include, of course, Moiraine.

[David Selig]

Given that Jordan went out of his way to make his main characters who were villagers from the back end of nowhere at the start, into royalty, I'd say that's really unlikely. ;)

 

But who knows, maybe Mat and Perrin will become the leaders of the revolution as the only way to stop people calling them Lord or Highness.