a foreshadowing in TDR Ch 27

[Luckers]

I cut onions regularily, in case I find myself in a situation that I need to stab people. In Australia, survival is all about being prepared.

[DaoineSidhe]

Well I suppose I should be glad it's onions your chopping and not ghost peppers lol.

[Terez]

I reread this chapter a couple of weeks ago for the fun of it and noticed a few things that might be foreshadowing. Rand's eyes are described as being fiery a couple of times, and Egwene insists she won't kill him. I think those two might be tied together. Another one is 'home and quiet pools of water' which made me think of my 'Rand is resurrected in the Waterwood' theory. A very circumstantial theory, but still very believable due to his dreams of his harem in the earlier books. And the boat.

[skyfirex]

Fiery eyes a la Ishamael?

[shortkut]

my 'Rand is resurrected in the Waterwood' theory.

could you link to that theory?

[tje]

Three of the places I think are likely have already been mentioned: 1) "i could stand any face but that one. not her face burn you."- I think this is talking about Ilyena at this point, I know it is early in the books but Rand is already starting his craziness. If this is foreshadowing it probably refers to some way to turn Rand or hurt him greatly by using one of the girls. 2) calling the dark one a fool. I don't know how this one will necessarily play out but it does state that it makes Egwene feel better or something of the sort. 3) The only way to help him is to gentle him and she may as well kill him if she does that because she would never do that (paraphrasing)- I think both BS and RJ talked about how RJ used foreshadowing in the form of using words like "never going to happen" or "impossible" to foreshadow things that were going to happen. i.e. cleansing saidin or healing the taint or healing severing. So I could very well see something like this happening.

 

Another point I don't necessarily believe it foreshadows the end of AMoL but I think its interesting. Right before Egwene goes to sleep she thinks Rand are you alright? she thinks about Perrin and then asks the question who was she?..... I don't really know if this was important or not but its interesting especially considering the content of her dreams were Rand, Perrin and some unknown lady.

[Terez]

my 'Rand is resurrected in the Waterwood' theory.

could you link to that theory?

 

It's not that complicated. We know he will be resurrected on a boat. There are some connections to the Two Rivers in the Perun resurrection legends which are heavily tied to the most likely resurrection method. Rand dreamed about swimming with his 3 women in the Waterwood. We know his 3 women are important to his resurrection. The 3 women are also important in the Perun legends.

[shortkut]

I thought we only saw a vision of his body on a boat but nothing saying he would be resurrected on a boat. Where did we find that out?

[Durinax]

I thought we only saw a vision of his body on a boat but nothing saying he would be resurrected on a boat. Where did we find that out?

think it was just assumed from the boat viewing.

 

could easily be that water will be important in his resurrection. Or maybe it is a subtle reference to saidar and how it is like a river.

 

An interesting thing though is that min never thought she was on the boat, I believe she just said something to the effect "him lying on a boat with three women standing over him"

[Lisa Campbell]

Min knew one of them was her, it was how she knew she would fall in love with him, along with the similar ones with funeral bier etc.. She lied to Siuan when she said the other two faces were blurred.

[Durinax]

Min knew one of them was her, it was how she knew she would fall in love with him, along with the similar ones with funeral bier etc.. She lied to Siuan when she said the other two faces were blurred.

you sure? I just looked at the encyclopedia and it doesn't even list the boat so I can't argue. But I thought the love one was from a separate viewing she never told him about

[Lisa Campbell]

Not positive without looking it up but that was the way I read it. I have to check now because one of Nicola's Foretellings had a boat in it if I recall. I'll update it if I find something.

[Lisa Campbell]

“The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade.”

—Nicola Treehill, Lord of Chaos, Chapter 14

 

This indicates that it was Elayne, Aviendah and Min on the boat, but it was a good catch that that wasn't a viewing but a foretelling.

[TristanWebb]

There is an Egwene Dream around the same time that is basically the same.

[tje]

kind of a side question. do we have a post on who the guardians and servants are in Nicola's foretelling?

[Suttree]

kind of a side question. do we have a post on who the guardians and servants are in Nicola's foretelling?

 

AS and Ashaman.

[tje]

thanks

[mike hunt's here]

So this may sound silly amid all the expert posts on this board, but my thought on the 'last' battle between Rand and whoever (moridin, shadar haran, bela, fain, etc) was not going to be a "physical" type battle, but more a mental challenge, not like sudoku - more like so Rand goes into Shayol ghul and starts yelling at the Dark One - "yadda yadda come get some, lets finish this, immma gonna seal you up like a ziploc bag.."

 

Now of course its not going to be all Rand using the sword forms, duck swallows pig on bed of daffodills. Or blasting away with balefire. I imagine it more like a combination of when he clensed the source...a bunch of lines of him talking to himself about how powerful it is, he can't do it, need to be stronger, love life, laugh, cry, not be so hard, be hard...whatever.

 

then the Dark one combats him by sending him images of his friends and family to distract him from what he is doing, or to lead him astray. Ala chapter 27 in TDR when he was on the run and egwene see him in the forest.

 

How's that?

[thisguy]

They better beat the crap out of each other or I'm blaming you!

 

Duck swallowing pig on a bed of daffodils is hilarious.

[Terez]

I thought we only saw a vision of his body on a boat but nothing saying he would be resurrected on a boat. Where did we find that out?

 

The 'he who is dead yet lives' bit suggests he has already died; his position on the boat indicates he's not quite living yet; the most likely method of resurrection requires his three women to bond him again to save him from death. It's just deduction.

 

Also, it was a dream shared by Bair and Melaine that confirmed the body on the boat was Rand. They couldn't make out the faces of the three women, but they did name Rand. The dream was given in the same book as the Foretelling by Nicola.

[shortkut]

I thought we only saw a vision of his body on a boat but nothing saying he would be resurrected on a boat. Where did we find that out?

 

The 'he who is dead yet lives' bit suggests he has already died; his position on the boat indicates he's not quite living yet; the most likely method of resurrection requires his three women to bond him again to save him from death. It's just deduction.

 

Also, it was a dream shared by Bair and Melaine that confirmed the body on the boat was Rand. They couldn't make out the faces of the three women, but they did name Rand. The dream was given in the same book as the Foretelling by Nicola.

The abilities from the warder bond such as healing are not stackable. Rand has already been bonded twice, by 4 people. The bonds would all need to break for another bonding to have any effect

[tje]

The whole 3 on a boat with dead Rand is very reminiscent of the king Arthur legend and how some versions of the myth that have him being seriously injured and heading into the mist of Avalon where he lives forever or what not. just my two cents

[Terez]

I thought we only saw a vision of his body on a boat but nothing saying he would be resurrected on a boat. Where did we find that out?

 

The 'he who is dead yet lives' bit suggests he has already died; his position on the boat indicates he's not quite living yet; the most likely method of resurrection requires his three women to bond him again to save him from death. It's just deduction.

 

Also, it was a dream shared by Bair and Melaine that confirmed the body on the boat was Rand. They couldn't make out the faces of the three women, but they did name Rand. The dream was given in the same book as the Foretelling by Nicola.

The abilities from the warder bond such as healing are not stackable. Rand has already been bonded twice, by 4 people. The bonds would all need to break for another bonding to have any effect

 

Yes, but what is the problem? We know that death breaks the bond.

[shortkut]

I thought we only saw a vision of his body on a boat but nothing saying he would be resurrected on a boat. Where did we find that out?

 

The 'he who is dead yet lives' bit suggests he has already died; his position on the boat indicates he's not quite living yet; the most likely method of resurrection requires his three women to bond him again to save him from death. It's just deduction.

 

Also, it was a dream shared by Bair and Melaine that confirmed the body on the boat was Rand. They couldn't make out the faces of the three women, but they did name Rand. The dream was given in the same book as the Foretelling by Nicola.

The abilities from the warder bond such as healing are not stackable. Rand has already been bonded twice, by 4 people. The bonds would all need to break for another bonding to have any effect

 

Yes, but what is the problem? We know that death breaks the bond.

since you cannot bond the dead i was unsure if you were saying rand was dead or simply nearly dead. Either way rebonding does not make sense as the method of resurrection, since he is either dead or still bonded, but it would make sense if being ripped out of TAR was the method of resurrection.

[Terez]

Yes, that was the point, obviously. Why beat around the bush about it?