First Time Reading the First Book

[Agitel]

There's a lot of things that go unsaid in this series, like how the Darkfriends kept popping up where Mat and Rand were and stuff. Even at the point your blog is at, though, you have enough information to put together how. And given the beginning of The Great Hunt, it should be even easier to piece the puzzle together (if you haven't already). RJ uses so many metaphors in his boo, the Pattern, blacksmith puzzles, etc... all are applicable to the books. You zoom in really close to a tapestry and you might not see what's going on, as you step back and get more and more, suddenly it all starts to make sense.

 

I'll also say that you should always question the assumptions your making with regards to motivations. Lots of characters are operating under bad assumptions, or are playing a different game than everyone else thinks they're playing, etc... So just keep that in mind. If you ever finish the series and reread the EotW, there's a lot of things in there that are important to the series as a whole, things that were introduce or foreshadowed a lot earlier than you'll remember looking back.

 

It's not perfect, no, but yeah. Also, while Shadow vs Light is pretty black and white, there is gray, and not all evil people will be crooked and nasty looking, not all beautiful and sexy people will be whores or on the side of good, etc... etc... You'll find people operating for the Dark for reasons one can sympathize with.

 

There's more character depth in the WoT than some give it credit for. With that said, ASoIaF is just chock full of gray once you get past its prologue.

 

Both Martin (author of ASoIaF) and Jordan are descriptive writers, though. Some people feel it brings the world alive (Jordan gets a little heavy handed with clothing in later books, Martin with food), but it's all apart of worldbuilding. There are certainly more blunt and to the point fantasy authors, though.

 

There was something else, but I forget.

[UncleButcher1980]

Your blogs though, I enjoy, if that's the right word. I'm not sure it is.

 

I know exactly how you feel! I'm enjoying the books, right? But that isn't the right word for what I'm experiencing. The book seems to be full of negative things, things I don't like, things I find sexist. The same way my blog is filled with stuff you feel is way off. But I go along with it because, I dunno, something about the book makes me want to. It's probably why the books sold so well. Like fast food, they aren't all that great but they taste good and fill me up.

 

 

You know what, I never thought of it like that. On more than one occasion I've asked why you're reading the books when really it was you who should have been asking me what the hell I was doing!

[A2597]

haha...yes, poor Mat.

 

He really isn't treated that great until book 3 I fear. At which point his luck changes, and he moves from a minor character to a major one.

[UGAShadow]

I think whoever told you to read these books because women are equal either misspoke or you heard him wrong.

 

 

The women in this world generally have at least the same amount of power and influence as men (more in some places, less in others). However, sexism exists in this world and the big three guys (Mat, Rand, and Perrin) are probably the worst ones. At least in the early books. Its a big part of their character development.

 

 

I can't wait till you get to see Ebou Dar though. You'll love that city I think.

 

 

You mention a couple times in your blog that you don't know where the people are in the book. Their should be a map at the very beginning of the book. One on the inside of the front cover and before the prologue starts. Thats very helpful on keeping up on where the characters are. You've probably found it already though.

[Aquarius]

haha...yes, poor Mat.

 

He really isn't treated that great until book 3 I fear. At which point his luck changes, and he moves from a minor character to a major one.

The same can be said of Perrin, probably.

[Hold On To The Night]

Always Sunny, I think you have started a trend! After you started posting, the first page in the general WoT discussion Forum has gone from having zero to now having three threads dealing with gender and/or sexuality issues. I like it. I really do think it is a more interesting discussion than always discussing the possible implications of the same details back and forth.

 

I really enjoyed your last blog post. I laughed a lot. And I like how your thoughts and observations differ so much from mine, the first time I read tEotW. Unlike many of the others here I don't think I disagree with you. I simply didn't think of these things back then. I agree with you about the Two Rivers and certainly about the whole sharing Bela-issue.

 

You strike me as someone I probably have some things in common with. So I'll take the liberty of recomending a book for you to read, if you haven't. Egalia's daughters - A satire of the sexes by Gerd Brantenberg. Although it is set in a different world from ours, I wouldn't call it fantasy. But it is hilarious. And thought-provoking. It was originally written in Norwegian, I read it in Norwegian and language is a big part of it, I don't know how they solved that in English. I think the translation is good though.

[White_star]

I think whoever told you to read these books because women are equal either misspoke or you heard him wrong.

 

 

The women in this world generally have at least the same amount of power and influence as men (more in some places, less in others). However, sexism exists in this world and the big three guys (Mat, Rand, and Perrin) are probably the worst ones. At least in the early books. Its a big part of their character development.

 

 

I can't wait till you get to see Ebou Dar though. You'll love that city I think.

 

You mention a couple times in your blog that you don't know where the people are in the book. Their should be a map at the very beginning of the book. One on the inside of the front cover and before the prologue starts. Thats very helpful on keeping up on where the characters are. You've probably found it already though.

or Far Madding

[Always Sunny]

Lots of characters are operating under bad assumptions, or are playing a different game than everyone else thinks they're playing, etc... So just keep that in mind.

 

I can see this, for sure. I just see the reverse of this, actually. I see everyone being very open about things but people assuming they must mean something else. Moiraine, for example, has made no mystery about her desires. She plans to bring Rand back to Tar Valon because she has some sort of plan for him. Rand believes her, Nynaeve believes her, Siuan (we'll come to see) is in league with her. What her plan is is beside the point. Her agenda for Book One was to get Rand.

 

The same thing with the Red Ajah. So far as I've read, they are after men (and not in the good way). I've puzzled out why but the "why" isn't important. They have a goal and they're going for it. Everyone knows it. The Whitecloaks have plans and everyone knows it. Nynaeve has a plan (kill Moiraine and get the Boys back) and Moiraine knows it. Mat has a plan (get that dagger back) and everyone knows it. Perrin doesn't really have a plan so he's just milling around waiting for a plot to get swept up in. Lord Agelmar has a plan (defend Fal Dara) and everyone knows it.

 

Thom didn't seem to have a plan. Neither did Min or Master Fitch or Lan or Master Gill or Queen Morgase or any of the other characters from Book One. Maybe those are the characters you're talking about.

 

I dunno. I see it as a pretty straight-forward story so far. The only surprise was Padan Fain. And that seemed more like a trick than a reveal.

 

 

If you ever finish the series and reread the EotW, there's a lot of things in there that are important to the series as a whole, things that were introduce or foreshadowed a lot earlier than you'll remember looking back.

 

No doubt! That's probably why rereads are so popular.

 

It's not perfect, no, but yeah. Also, while Shadow vs Light is pretty black and white, there is gray, and not all evil people will be crooked and nasty looking, not all beautiful and sexy people will be whores or on the side of good, etc... etc... You'll find people operating for the Dark for reasons one can sympathize with.

 

Ah, but will those people be outliers? A million ugly barbed demons and one beautiful succubus is not a what I'm looking for, you know? There haven't been too many named characters in the story so far (most of the time has been spent in the wilderness between cities or waiting inside inns when in town) so I can't think of any good examples.

 

You know what, I never thought of it like that. On more than one occasion I've asked why you're reading the books when really it was you who should have been asking me what the hell I was doing!

 

Ha! I told you forum goers that I wanted to open your eyes a bit. Show you something that you may have missed before.

 

So, really, what the hell are you doing, eh? What keeps you coming back if you don't "enjoy" it?

 

 

However, sexism exists in this world and the big three guys (Mat, Rand, and Perrin) are probably the worst ones. At least in the early books. Its a big part of their character development.

 

Thanks for reading and commenting, UGAShadow. How is that pronounced, anyway? UGAS Hadow? Hehe, I keed.

 

But to respond: I haven't been complaining that the boys were sexist (well, yes I have been, but wait) but that the world they grew up in was sexist. They are just products of their hometown, you know? I still don't like what they do. But to hate on just the characters and not on their whole world (and by "whole world" I mean "Two Rivers") is missing a big chuck of the problem.

 

The, umm, problem of sexism in a fictional town. Got to fight your battles where you can, right?

 

You mention a couple times in your blog that you don't know where the people are in the book. Their should be a map at the very beginning of the book. One on the inside of the front cover and before the prologue starts. Thats very helpful on keeping up on where the characters are. You've probably found it already though.

 

Thanks for the help! But my problem is that Shadar Logoth wasn't on that map. So I took a compass and placed its spiked end on Baerlon and opened it up 'til the pencil part was on Taren Ferry. That's how far the characters went in six days. Then I spun that compass around to make a circle with a "six days of overland travel" radius. Now, that circle intersects the Caemlyn Road somewhere east of Baerlon. That intersection is six days (more or less) of horse travel from Baerlon. The fellowship was three days from Baerlon when they had to abandon the road to head north to avoid a Trolloc ambush. So around halfway from Baerlon to that intersection point is where they left the road. Shadar Logoth is a little north of there (and if the map is to scale, the river is about two days from there even though it took them about two hours to get there).

 

So, unless my high school geometry is off, I know where they are at that point. But then it's overland from there to Caemlyn (for Perrin, at least) and I lose track of him for a while. I don't know where the stedding is or where he met the Tinkers (or why they'd be in wagons so far from civilization; they don't farm so aren't they sorta dependent upon towns and cities for survival?). And I don't remember Perrin or the Whitecloaks crossing two major rivers, either, but who cares about that!

 

 

 

Always Sunny, I think you have started a trend! After you started posting, the first page in the general WoT discussion Forum has gone from having zero to now having three threads dealing with gender and/or sexuality issues. I like it. I really do think it is a more interesting discussion than always discussing the possible implications of the same details back and forth.

 

I'm no trendsetter. But I also don't go to the other parts of this forum for fear of spoilers. So thanks for the heads up!

 

And I do think discussion of sexism or fake fantasy politics is much more interesting than who is the best warrior and fake fantasy prophecies. I'm glad I'm not the only one!

 

I really enjoyed your last blog post. I laughed a lot.

 

Well, then, my job is done! That's the bulk of what I've been hoping to do here. So just keep reading until I stop being funny, if that's what you want to do. And when I stop being funny just tell me and I'll throw in a joke or two. I've got a million of 'em.

 

You strike me as someone I probably have some things in common with. So I'll take the liberty of recomending a book for you to read, if you haven't.

 

Thanks for that! I'll get to Amazon right quick and see what's up with them. Thanks for reading, Hold On To The Night (and I thought typing "Amyrlin Seat" was tough to do!). Hope to hear your thoughts again.

[A2597]

Re: Named Characters...

 

Didn't Brandon say that on average, each book adds 150 named characters? Some of those will play larger roles than others of course, but still. Tis a lot. :D

[Always Sunny]

Re: Named Characters...

 

Didn't Brandon say that on average, each book adds 150 named characters? Some of those will play larger roles than others of course, but still. Tis a lot. :D

 

I meant named characters that I could group into sets so I can look for outliers. I could go with innkeepers, maybe. Masters al'Vere in Emond's Field, Fitch in Baerlon, Can't-Remember-His-Name in Whitebridge, Hake in Four Kings, and Gill in Baerlon. There were other, unnamed innkeepers, too. But of them, two were described in poor terms and one was outright evil. So there have been five named and two or three unnamed so far. Eight total with one being bad.

 

I think I'd been within the norm if I said that innkeepers were generally good guys (unless there is even a hint of mistrust on Rand's part).

 

Or to look at it another way: Whitecloaks are universally bad. There might be good ones here and there (Bornhald comes to mind) but I think I'll be safe if I just go with a "here comes a bad guy" gut reaction whenever a Child of the Light comes onto the scene.

 

So, you know, just because there is one or two good-looking villains and a few ugly heroes doesn't mean I'm going to be wrong all the other times I make assumptions.

[Pygmalion79]

So, you know, just because there is one or two good-looking villains and a few ugly heroes doesn't mean I'm going to be wrong all the other times I make assumptions.

I don't think that this is a spoiler: Although there are entries in each column, there are many more good-looking villains than ugly good guys. I think that there is something in the water of Randland that just makes people more attractive, because if we put plump innkeepers into their own category ("lovable teddy bears") then I swear the ratio of attractive people to ugly people comes to about 4:1.

[UncleButcher1980]

I can see this, for sure. I just see the reverse of this, actually. I see everyone being very open about things but people assuming they must mean something else. Moiraine, for example, has made no mystery about her desires. She plans to bring Rand back to Tar Valon because she has some sort of plan for him. Rand believes her, Nynaeve believes her, Siuan (we'll come to see) is in league with her. What her plan is is beside the point. Her agenda for Book One was to get Rand.

 

The same thing with the Red Ajah. So far as I've read, they are after men (and not in the good way). I've puzzled out why but the "why" isn't important. They have a goal and they're going for it. Everyone knows it. The Whitecloaks have plans and everyone knows it. Nynaeve has a plan (kill Moiraine and get the Boys back) and Moiraine knows it. Mat has a plan (get that dagger back) and everyone knows it. Perrin doesn't really have a plan so he's just milling around waiting for a plot to get swept up in. Lord Agelmar has a plan (defend Fal Dara) and everyone knows it.

 

Thom didn't seem to have a plan. Neither did Min or Master Fitch or Lan or Master Gill or Queen Morgase or any of the other characters from Book One. Maybe those are the characters you're talking about.

 

I dunno. I see it as a pretty straight-forward story so far. The only surprise was Padan Fain. And that seemed more like a trick than a reveal.

 

I think what Agitel is saying, and I'm sure he can say it far better than me, is that what the characters assume is right may not be, therefore when you assume you know what someone is doing, Moiraine for example, you may be wrong. I say may, trying hard to be vauge, because you might be right but I don't want to spoil anything.

 

There was a great quote by Robert Jordan, I can't remember it exactly, but it went something like what you think you know may not be the actual truth. Wow, that was terrible. Hold on, let me find the quote. Ok, here it is.

 

What I say is, what you believe to be true is not always true. What you think is going to happen is not always going to happen. That has been demonstrated time and again in THE WHEEL OF TIME. You could call those two statements one of the themes of the books. ... If the answer is easy, consider the possibility that you asked the wrong question.<br id="g9k7">

[Suttree]

Lord Agelmar has a plan (defend Fal Dara) and everyone knows it.

 

Assuming you're at the point where you have noticed that this one isn't exactly at is it seems. People are still arguing about who ordered the Fal Dara lockdown. That is just one example. You would do well to heed Agitel's advice in future books.

[A2597]

Or to look at it another way: Whitecloaks are universally bad. There might be good ones here and there (Bornhald comes to mind) but I think I'll be safe if I just go with a "here comes a bad guy" gut reaction whenever a Child of the Light comes onto the scene.

 

Hrmm...I guess that depends, are zealots bad, or just midguided? If someone does the wrong thing with the right intent, could they not be written as a shade of grey? Some are good, and good hearted, some are not good and some are a mix...overall, depending on how far you read this series, I don't think you'll be disappointed by the Whitecloaks. :)

 

 

On characters being right / wrong...is it ever that easy? Take any person you know in real life, your first impression of course is what sticks the hardest...but you can apply that to these characters. They all have detailed past and futures, and as you get to know them you get to know their motives. They may not be at all what you first expected them to be, or they may be exactly what you thought they were, but with so many layers that add to the "why". Character motives really don't get fleshed out until book 4 I think. 1 - 3 are more about their actions than their motives IMHO. It balances out as the books continue.

[Erunion]

AH those loveable whitecloaks!

Piece of advice, don't go "here comes a Bad Guy" when you see a whitecloak. It would be more accurate to say "here comes a guy who doesn't like the Main Characters."

In the Wheel of Time, not liking Rand doesn't make you evil. Otherwise, there would be a ton of evil people...

[Agitel]

I think the others summed up my point nicely. With that said, I don't want to exaggerate things. There are plenty of straight-forward characters. But there's also plenty of times where you'll find out things you thought you knew were really only assumptions.

 

I brought this up because I've noticed you questioning 'inconsistencies' a few times, but really, I should stop telling and just let you read. RAFO.

[Elend]

I really don't know how to make this any clearer--next person to make a rude or derogatory post will get a seven day ban.

 

Oh Great Admin of Power and Justice, I have had my minions working 'round the clock to craft a great artifact for one as mighty as yourself. At first they wished to name it Mjollnir. Then, one that shall not be named, suggested Mah'alleinir. In the end, to avoid copyright infringement, we decided the weapon speaks for itself.

 

We present to you this most potent weapon, my lord.

 

Even the Amyrlin Seat needs approval from local lords before taking action (approval almost always given, sure).

 

I'd just like to point out that's nothing to do with gender. If the Amyrilin Seat was a King, he'd still have to be careful not to rub nobles up the wrong way or he'd end up with a civil war on his hands. Also, it would be local ladies, not just lords

 

No, you are right. Getting approval from local lords before commanding that lord's vassals has nothing to do with gender. A respected foreign king would still have to do so just as much as the Amyrlin. Absolutely. I was simply pointing out that one of the major female powers in the world doesn't have absolute control but rather a web of soft power. She doesn't command vast armies but rather heavily influences those that do. And so far I haven't encountered any non-Aes Sedai Ladies but I assume the rules apply to them, too. But, again, this happens later in the story so I don't want to dwell on it too much.

 

Just a heads up, the Amyrlin seat has a role a heck of a lot like that of the Pope during the Middle-Ages - is selected by a council, rules her own city-state and has tremendous political influence anywhere her "religion" is followed (in this case, where Aes Sedai are respected, not truly a religious thing). Like the Pope, there are places where the Amyrlin is not well thought of, and places where she is outright hated, but even to them she is still the leader of a powerful political body. Also like the Pope of the Medieval era, she has no technical authority outside of Tar Valon/Vatican or Aes Sedai/Religious matters, but almost anyone in any of the nations that respects her would be willing (or at least feel obligated to) do anything she asks.

 

I've picked up on the Amyrlin Seat/Pope similarities. And I know this isn't the real world but this is the time when the Protestant kingdoms broke away from the Holy See. Maybe Shienar wouldn't go the way of Germany but Andor looks like it might, what with half the people wearing the white ribbons. But, as I said earlier, this is a discussion for a later day! Maybe even another thread, too. A new one for the Great Hunt. But that's weeks from now, I think.

 

The Amyrlin Seat has an army. This is actually a pretty prominent aspect of the future books- the military might of the Aes Sedai. They have an army that is on par of a major nation's up until the massive military build-up that occurs around the fifth book. Following events later in the series the military of Tar Valon once again is on par with the major players, with the exception of two that have completely absurd numbers of troops. Tar Valon is also extremely difficult to properly siege, making true hard power difficult to be brought to bear against them.

 

I'm not really trying to debate here, just clarifying the power of the Aes Sedai in terms of military strength. You probably could have picked this up, actually, with the references to sisters being used against Logain's army in the first book. Though its been so long I'm not sure if they specifically state they're using Ghealdan's army or not for their mission.

 

ETA: Love your posts BTW. Keep up the good work!

[UGAShadow]

However, sexism exists in this world and the big three guys (Mat, Rand, and Perrin) are probably the worst ones. At least in the early books. Its a big part of their character development.

 

Thanks for reading and commenting, UGAShadow. How is that pronounced, anyway? UGAS Hadow? Hehe, I keed.

 

But to respond: I haven't been complaining that the boys were sexist (well, yes I have been, but wait) but that the world they grew up in was sexist. They are just products of their hometown, you know? I still don't like what they do. But to hate on just the characters and not on their whole world (and by "whole world" I mean "Two Rivers") is missing a big chuck of the problem.

 

The, umm, problem of sexism in a fictional town. Got to fight your battles where you can, right?

 

You mention a couple times in your blog that you don't know where the people are in the book. Their should be a map at the very beginning of the book. One on the inside of the front cover and before the prologue starts. Thats very helpful on keeping up on where the characters are. You've probably found it already though.

 

Thanks for the help! But my problem is that Shadar Logoth wasn't on that map. So I took a compass and placed its spiked end on Baerlon and opened it up 'til the pencil part was on Taren Ferry. That's how far the characters went in six days. Then I spun that compass around to make a circle with a "six days of overland travel" radius. Now, that circle intersects the Caemlyn Road somewhere east of Baerlon. That intersection is six days (more or less) of horse travel from Baerlon. The fellowship was three days from Baerlon when they had to abandon the road to head north to avoid a Trolloc ambush. So around halfway from Baerlon to that intersection point is where they left the road. Shadar Logoth is a little north of there (and if the map is to scale, the river is about two days from there even though it took them about two hours to get there).

 

So, unless my high school geometry is off, I know where they are at that point. But then it's overland from there to Caemlyn (for Perrin, at least) and I lose track of him for a while. I don't know where the stedding is or where he met the Tinkers (or why they'd be in wagons so far from civilization; they don't farm so aren't they sorta dependent upon towns and cities for survival?). And I don't remember Perrin or the Whitecloaks crossing two major rivers, either, but who cares about that!

 

 

 

 

True about the boys just being a product of where they were raised. Not sure why everyone is arguing about it. I think its just that you latch on to every little thing for one. One that most would just gloss over and not notice. But that shouldn't have caused the explosions that came from some members. I have two theories on that.

 

 

1. They thought you were calling Robert Jordan sexist.

 

or

 

2. They don't consider the romantic chivalry of the Two Rivers to be sexist.

 

 

I'll go with two because most older men believe just that.

 

 

 

 

As for where Shadar Logoth is, I'm actually not too sure about that either. I've noticed an inconsistency in where it should be. In EotW its one place, yet the WoT Encylopedia (we call it the Big White Book) says that Aridhol didn't extend to the west side of the river. I'm actually about to make a thread about that.

[Always Sunny]

AH those loveable whitecloaks!

Piece of advice, don't go "here comes a Bad Guy" when you see a whitecloak. It would be more accurate to say "here comes a guy who doesn't like the Main Characters."

In the Wheel of Time, not liking Rand doesn't make you evil. Otherwise, there would be a ton of evil people...

 

I'm working under the impression, based on nothing more than my understanding of the genre, that Rand is a force for Good and Ba'alzamon is a force for Evil. Rand is going to learn more about himself and in the end will defeat Ba'alzamon. Maybe even the Dark One (I hope he defeats Ba'alzamon soon, too, because I hate that guy; not because he's a cool villain but because he's a bad, one-dimensional character).

 

Thus, if a character doesn't like Rand or opposes Rand then that person is working against the series's ultimate goal. If I'm supposed to root for the Dark One's destruction then I have to root for Rand. If I'm rooting for Rand then I have to root against those who oppose him. Right?

 

The only way out of this, that I see, is that Rand is going the wrong direction in defeating the Dark One. Say, he's using the One Ring to fight him instead of throwing the One Ring into the fires of Mount Doom. In that case, some who oppose Rand are actually trying to save him. But I'm sure this twist will be pretty obvious (an assumption, I know, but I'm full of those). We'll see when we get there!

 

 

The Amyrlin Seat has an army. This is actually a pretty prominent aspect of the future books- the military might of the Aes Sedai. They have an army that is on par of a major nation's up until the massive military build-up that occurs around the fifth book. Following events later in the series the military of Tar Valon once again is on par with the major players, with the exception of two that have completely absurd numbers of troops. Tar Valon is also extremely difficult to properly siege, making true hard power difficult to be brought to bear against them.

 

I'm at a point in The Great Hunt just before Nynaeve and Egwene get off the boat at Tar Valon for the first time. At least, I hope they get off there. This series takes its time in getting places. So far the Amyrlin Seat has some soldiers with her when she marched to Fal Dara. I make it a point in the blog to ask why the witches need an army. Look at Moiraine. One wizard can bring down earthquakes and walls of fire. She wasn't even using her little statue in Shadar Logoth so she could have done even more if she has prepared (instead of being ambushed). And I've picked up in the forums that witches can link up to improve their powers, too. So get five or six Aes Sedai together. Who could possibly stop them? Is Caemlyn really earthquake-proof? Two or three of those spells, with a wall of fire to consume whatever first responders they have, water magic to dry up their wells, and you've pretty much defeated the Kingdom of Andor in a matter of minutes with five people.

 

But I'm sure I'll find a reason why these people, who have the ability to nuke the world five times over, aren't doing that. I look forward to finding out, too.

 

 

 

Anyway, where are we in the Eye of the World? Two thirds of the fellowship have reunited as Nynaeve, Moiraine, and Lan find Egwene and Perrin in the Whitecloak camp. Rand meets an ogre named Loial in an odd inn in Caemlyn.

 

I'm getting a better feel for the mythology of the setting. Actually, I think I'm "willfully misinterpreting" the setting, but I think for the better. Plus I've got a better feeling for Moiraine's character. Again, probably not accurate given what might come in later books but it works for me now.

 

I've noticed, too, that as I read Book Two I'm not letting new information alter my old ideas but rather judging new information with my old ideas. For example, I still see Moiraine as a bad guy. So when she does things that look "good guy" I'm forced to find shady motives for her "good guy act" instead of just saying, "I was wrong and Moiraine was never a bad guy." It's worked so far; mostly only minor my minor ideas are proven to be totally incorrect. So far I haven't found anything that completely throws my entire Web of Lies off kilter.

 

So here's the latest link. Thank you all for reading! I hope you keep enjoy it. Oh, and tell your friends, too. "Everyone should be reading this," said Always Sunny, humbly.

 

Web of the Patter, The Long Chase, Rescue

[UGAShadow]

The Amyrlin Seat has an army. This is actually a pretty prominent aspect of the future books- the military might of the Aes Sedai. They have an army that is on par of a major nation's up until the massive military build-up that occurs around the fifth book. Following events later in the series the military of Tar Valon once again is on par with the major players, with the exception of two that have completely absurd numbers of troops. Tar Valon is also extremely difficult to properly siege, making true hard power difficult to be brought to bear against them.

 

I'm at a point in The Great Hunt just before Nynaeve and Egwene get off the boat at Tar Valon for the first time. At least, I hope they get off there. This series takes its time in getting places. So far the Amyrlin Seat has some soldiers with her when she marched to Fal Dara. I make it a point in the blog to ask why the witches need an army. Look at Moiraine. One wizard can bring down earthquakes and walls of fire. She wasn't even using her little statue in Shadar Logoth so she could have done even more if she has prepared (instead of being ambushed). And I've picked up in the forums that witches can link up to improve their powers, too. So get five or six Aes Sedai together. Who could possibly stop them? Is Caemlyn really earthquake-proof? Two or three of those spells, with a wall of fire to consume whatever first responders they have, water magic to dry up their wells, and you've pretty much defeated the Kingdom of Andor in a matter of minutes with five people.

 

But I'm sure I'll find a reason why these people, who have the ability to nuke the world five times over, aren't doing that. I look forward to finding out, too.

 

 

 

Anyway, where are we in the Eye of the World? Two thirds of the fellowship have reunited as Nynaeve, Moiraine, and Lan find Egwene and Perrin in the Whitecloak camp. Rand meets an ogre named Loial in an odd inn in Caemlyn.

 

I'm getting a better feel for the mythology of the setting. Actually, I think I'm "willfully misinterpreting" the setting, but I think for the better. Plus I've got a better feeling for Moiraine's character. Again, probably not accurate given what might come in later books but it works for me now.

 

I've noticed, too, that as I read Book Two I'm not letting new information alter my old ideas but rather judging new information with my old ideas. For example, I still see Moiraine as a bad guy. So when she does things that look "good guy" I'm forced to find shady motives for her "good guy act" instead of just saying, "I was wrong and Moiraine was never a bad guy." It's worked so far; mostly only minor my minor ideas are proven to be totally incorrect. So far I haven't found anything that completely throws my entire Web of Lies off kilter.

 

So here's the latest link. Thank you all for reading! I hope you keep enjoy it. Oh, and tell your friends, too. "Everyone should be reading this," said Always Sunny, humbly.

 

Web of the Patter, The Long Chase, Rescue

 

 

 

I thought Moraine explained the Three Oaths in tEotW? Well, you'll find out soon if not. Me telling you isn't a spoiler. When raised to Aes Sedai they use a rod that binds oaths taken on them with the power. These oaths cannot be broken. The three are: Not to make a weapon with the power, not to use the power except against darkspawn, darkfriends or in the defense of her life or the life of her warder, and to tell no lie. An Aes Sedai is incapable of lying straight out and is why they never say anything straight out for the most part.

 

 

Thats why they need armies. Unless they believe a whole nation is full of darkfriends they cannot use the power unless they or their warder is in direct danger.

[Elend]

Basically if you've seen Babylon 5 think of the Aes Sedai as vaguely similar to the PsyCorp in that they serve a social function in addition to the accumulation of power. Its actually somewhat elegant in a way, that this group serves a purpose beyond just being there, and that this purpose is tightly controlled by basically binding themselves. Its a theme of the series. Something has to be done with the wizards of the world but they don't know what. Each society has its own answer, with the current one being gentling for men and the Tower for women. Its strongly suggested that while one is a necessary evil, the other isn't necessarily the best way.

 

And it does good to remember all Aes Sedai come from somewhere. They can't necessarily flex their magic power against places they were born. Loyalties don't die that easily, not really.

 

Technology in WoTWorld is pretty strange. For instance I'm 90% sure that there are printing presses in the world. But no gunpowder while you actually see the beginning of the industrial revolution of the world in, I think, book 7. Think of it as, perhaps, mid 18th century I guess. It doesn't have much of a plot purpose though.

 

BTW, you're basically spot-on with Moiraine, IMO at least. Though I don't consider her evil. Just someone in a horrible situation (the prequel book makes her a bit clearer. but yeah, she'll do what she must).

 

ETA:

 

AH those loveable whitecloaks!

Piece of advice, don't go "here comes a Bad Guy" when you see a whitecloak. It would be more accurate to say "here comes a guy who doesn't like the Main Characters."

In the Wheel of Time, not liking Rand doesn't make you evil. Otherwise, there would be a ton of evil people...

 

I'm working under the impression, based on nothing more than my understanding of the genre, that Rand is a force for Good and Ba'alzamon is a force for Evil. Rand is going to learn more about himself and in the end will defeat Ba'alzamon. Maybe even the Dark One (I hope he defeats Ba'alzamon soon, too, because I hate that guy; not because he's a cool villain but because he's a bad, one-dimensional character).

 

Thus, if a character doesn't like Rand or opposes Rand then that person is working against the series's ultimate goal. If I'm supposed to root for the Dark One's destruction then I have to root for Rand. If I'm rooting for Rand then I have to root against those who oppose him. Right?

 

The only way out of this, that I see, is that Rand is going the wrong direction in defeating the Dark One. Say, he's using the One Ring to fight him instead of throwing the One Ring into the fires of Mount Doom. In that case, some who oppose Rand are actually trying to save him. But I'm sure this twist will be pretty obvious (an assumption, I know, but I'm full of those). We'll see when we get there!

 

 

Good ideas, these. Not necessarily right but not necessarily wrong either. I like the way you think here.

 

ETA2: The Big B is more 3-dimensional later on. And I find it interesting you don't seem to consider him the Dark One.

[UGAShadow]

I'm pretty sure the WoT technology is around Renaissance Europe type. There are printing presses BTW. Its mentioned in the Lord of Chaos I do believe.

 

 

 

BTW, I think you need to go a little easier on Perrin. He's not my favorite character but I think I have to defend him. His actions killing the Whitecloaks were irrational but understandable. He just had a creature (who seems to be quite sentient and intelligent) who has a psychic connection to his mind killed. This probably comes as a big shock. Which is what probably drove him into the blood rage that followed.

[Elend]

TBH I find the Perrin interpretation hilarious. Made me laugh several dozen times.

[UGAShadow]

Oh, me too. Just felt that point needed to be made.

[Erunion]

I'm pretty sure the WoT technology is around Renaissance Europe type. There are printing presses BTW. Its mentioned in the Lord of Chaos I do believe.

 

 

 

BTW, I think you need to go a little easier on Perrin. He's not my favorite character but I think I have to defend him. His actions killing the Whitecloaks were irrational but understandable. He just had a creature (who seems to be quite sentient and intelligent) who has a psychic connection to his mind killed. This probably comes as a big shock. Which is what probably drove him into the blood rage that followed.

 

Perrin's best defense, in this case, is temporary insanity. Or, you know, permanent insanity. One or the other.

 

BTW: The Printing press has been around for the last three thousand years. According to RJ, printing was the first real non-necessary trade that was re-discovered after the breaking.

 

Also, most characters see 'old things' as being better than new things. This is not healthy, and is an opinion that has (along with other factors) stagnated technological growth in Randland. It's really quite a sad, but cleverly-designed cultural phenomenon. People are more concerned with re-creating the Age of Legends than they are with building something newer and better. This only begins to really shift about half-way through the series, when people start doing some clever things.