Moraine's third request

[spoke]

Right after Moraine was rescued from the Finn's, she mentions that the angreal was one of her requests. Since she wasn't severed that means that one of her requests was to break the bond between her and Lan. So my question is, what was her last request?

[Phelix]

You're making a massive assumption about her bond with Lan. It could just as easily have been the fact that she left the plane of existence that Lan was on, and that snapped their bond. She was literally not in the same dimension anymore.

 

Also, the fact that the bond snapped the moment the door melted implies that it wasn't a request. Yes, time in Finnland moves differently, but in our previous trips to Finnland (through the doors) the time it took to be received, taken to the council, given gifts/answers and then taken back took longer than a heartbeat. Based on previous experience, it is unlikely that Moiraine went from wrestling with Lanfear to suddenly receiving her requests.

[udpaco13]

You're making a massive assumption about her bond with Lan. It could just as easily have been the fact that she left the plane of existence that Lan was on, and that snapped their bond. She was literally not in the same dimension anymore.

 

She has left the plane of Existence previously in Tear. Her bond was not snapped then. I am not sure if I think one of her requests was to release Lan, but it was not caused by the fact that she went through the door.

[BleedingOrange]

Since she knew what was going to happen, I wouldn't be surprised if she managed to transfer the bond when she went through the door to prevent Lan from trying a rescue that was doomed to fail. He most definately would have tried such a rescue if he didn't believe she was dead.

[Samhain]

Since she knew what was going to happen, all the way up to what was required to rescue her, she actually had the opportunity to request more than 3 things.

 

She knew what could have happened by seeing a hundred different futures, all of which indicated Rand would be evil if she didn't come to the docks. She also knew that the only times out of that hundred she was rescued was by seeing Mat, Thom, and one other( she hadn't met yet ).

 

I think that means she asked for 300 different things, 3 in each of her different futures, and requested the 3 things she knew would be required after being rescued. I think she requested an angreal to make her more powerful than she was before, because she knew she would be diminished in the power once rescued.

[Gythwyn]

With the bond, personally I think the reason it snapped and it didn't before, was because the Doorway was destroyed.

 

To use an analogy, when she went through in Tear, it was if she popped through a door and left it slghtly open (with a piece of string attaching her to Lan ), when her and Lanfear went through, the gateway was destroyed, the equivalent of slamming the door shut snapping the string.

 

Thats the reason for the bond going anyway IMO.

 

As for the requests? A refillable bowl o'popcorn and The Neverending Story :P

[spoke]

You're making a massive assumption about her bond with Lan. It could just as easily have been the fact that she left the plane of existence that Lan was on, and that snapped their bond. She was literally not in the same dimension anymore.

 

Also, the fact that the bond snapped the moment the door melted implies that it wasn't a request. Yes, time in Finnland moves differently, but in our previous trips to Finnland (through the doors) the time it took to be received, taken to the council, given gifts/answers and then taken back took longer than a heartbeat. Based on previous experience, it is unlikely that Moiraine went from wrestling with Lanfear to suddenly receiving her requests.

 

 

Yes, I am making a big assumption, but yours is just as big, and just as hard to defend. But that is aside from the point. My bigger purpose in this is not to debate how the bond snapped, but as to what she asked for.

[FarShainMael]

Something that Rand could use to seal away the DO? If that was a thing, she doesn't seem to have it on her person. It may have been a technique, or something.

[Phelix]

You're making a massive assumption about her bond with Lan. It could just as easily have been the fact that she left the plane of existence that Lan was on, and that snapped their bond. She was literally not in the same dimension anymore.

 

Also, the fact that the bond snapped the moment the door melted implies that it wasn't a request. Yes, time in Finnland moves differently, but in our previous trips to Finnland (through the doors) the time it took to be received, taken to the council, given gifts/answers and then taken back took longer than a heartbeat. Based on previous experience, it is unlikely that Moiraine went from wrestling with Lanfear to suddenly receiving her requests.

 

 

Yes, I am making a big assumption, but yours is just as big, and just as hard to defend. But that is aside from the point. My bigger purpose in this is not to debate how the bond snapped, but as to what she asked for.

 

Actually, as discussed in this thread, my assumption has more behind it than yours... and mine would allow for an additional two requests for Moiraine, beyond her request for the angreal Lanfear used.

 

As for her other requests... we don't have enough information to guess about what they could have been. All we can do is guess, and the only arguments against our guesses will be individual interpretations of Moiraine's motivations/desires.

 

But, to go along with your idea and guess... we know that she doesn't know what's happened in the world while she was in Finnland, so she didn't ask for knowledge of the world, which is what I would have assumed she would ask for. I mean, she plans on being rescued, so that would be the logical thing to ask for. She was described as being nude, but for the angreal, so she didn't request another object, which leaves us with intangible things she could request.

 

• I think high on the list of probable requests would be knowledge of the Forsaken and/or their plans, though we know asking about the Shadow is dangerous there.
• She could have asked for knowledge of lost weaves that might help them in their battle
• She could have asked what Rand needs to do to reseal the Bore

All in all... it's too big. She could have asked for anything... even a sandwich.

 

 

[Finnssss22]

Maybe I'm being a little too simplistic here but wouldn't requesting they not kill her be somewhat important?

 

Maybe she knew they wouldn't kill her and that she was bait for Mat but that's just as much as an assumption as anything else mentioned imo.

[Phelix]

That's a fair idea...

 

WE know the treaty forbids the Finns from shedding blood, but there are plenty of other ways to kill a person. Moiraine would have seen the many ways the trip through the doorway could fall out and simply asked that they keep her alive, or not allow her to die. That would explain why they were more careful with her than they were with Lanfear, and it would explain how she survived there for months (years?).

[zidfrekle]

The only thing that wouldnt explain is why she was hesitant to tell Mat and her new hubby Thom what she had asked for..."I asked them not to kill me" doesnt seem to me that it would need much secrecy. Whatever it was she asked, there has to be a reason she wont tell them.

[Canis Rufus]

As for the bond, I Don't get why people can't accept that it was just passed. The weave was already in place all she had to do was release it. (SHE KNEW WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN) passing it before the event would have tipped her hand during the event would have risked the outcome she knew had to happen. So she held the passing till the last moment. It is that easily done as we have seen since.

 

For her request, yes the bracelet would have to be one. But there is the assumption that she knows what she must do to get Rand to survive. So we Know that he needed Ol M at the last battle to win per Min, we know that for whatever reason M knows the conclusion to many different choices. It would only stand to reason that the last two things would tie into the direct plot. She asked how to wield the sword with rand (so she is one of the three and the chick that has to kill him will be the other.) AND since M knows that Rand must die then it stands to be a reasonable assumption that she asked how to save him. As we all know he will spill his blood on some rocks yada yada death doom gloom yada yada. So that’s my thoughts.

 

1. Nifty Bracelet

2. How to wield that over powered Sword

3. How to save the world/Rand.

[Blood and Ashes]

You guys seem to be assuming she asked questions / got answers. The snakes do that.

 

The foxes grant wishes. Obviously nothing about her strength with the one power besides the angreal. Maybe she asked for memories like Mat?

[akira.taylor]

As for the bond, I Don't get why people can't accept that it was just passed. The weave was already in place all she had to do was release it. (SHE KNEW WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN) passing it before the event would have tipped her hand during the event would have risked the outcome she knew had to happen. So she held the passing till the last moment. It is that easily done as we have seen since.

 

Probably because Jordan said that a bond could be released, but only if the Warder was present? Now, transferring the bond apparently doesn't require the Warder to be present (Lan didn't know Moiraine had set it up), but Moiraine says that it will transfer on her death. Moiraine can't lie (not Black Ajah), so that would suggest that she had to "die," or some condition Moiraine didn't know about.

[Terez]

Nah, it just means that she anticipated at that point that it would pass with her death. Doesn't mean she had to be dead for it to pass.

 

I can see her either passing it deliberately or the bond being snapped because of the destroyed doorway. Either makes sense.

[Phelix]

You guys seem to be assuming she asked questions / got answers. The snakes do that.

 

The foxes grant wishes. Obviously nothing about her strength with the one power besides the angreal. Maybe she asked for memories like Mat?

 

Knowledge can be a gift too. If you ask for knowledge regarding a topic and phrase it as a request for the knowledge, rather than a question, you should be fine. Moiraine could have said "I want to know how to save Rand al'Thor's life." and the Foxes would see that as a wish. They might put the knowledge directly into her head (ala Mat's memories) or they could simply tell her what she wants to know. Heck, they could even give her a book with hints throughout that when put together give the answer.

 

 

As for the bond, I Don't get why people can't accept that it was just passed. The weave was already in place all she had to do was release it. (SHE KNEW WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN) passing it before the event would have tipped her hand during the event would have risked the outcome she knew had to happen. So she held the passing till the last moment. It is that easily done as we have seen since.

 

Probably because Jordan said that a bond could be released, but only if the Warder was present? Now, transferring the bond apparently doesn't require the Warder to be present (Lan didn't know Moiraine had set it up), but Moiraine says that it will transfer on her death. Moiraine can't lie (not Black Ajah), so that would suggest that she had to "die," or some condition Moiraine didn't know about.

 

We don't know when Moiraine did her little adjustment to Lan's bond. She Healed him numerous times, wiped away his weariness, and was in close proximity for most of the time before her "death." It would be very Moiraine to alter his bond while Healing him, or while walking with him, discussing plans.

 

Or you could be right, and she was able to alter their bond without his presence.

 

 

Nah, it just means that she anticipated at that point that it would pass with her death. Doesn't mean she had to be dead for it to pass.

 

I can see her either passing it deliberately or the bond being snapped because of the destroyed doorway. Either makes sense.

 

We know she set it up to pass before the docks, and that she knew Lan would feel as if she had died... it just doesn't seem logical that there would be a kill switch for her to set off to release the bond. If there's a known mechanism for bonds to pass to other sisters, and we know it's more than just Moiraine (hello Myrelle), why should we reach for an otherwise unknown explanation? The author gave us an explanation that fits the rules we know and the situation... I'm not seeing a reason to try to explain away Moiraine's sacrifice.

[Mats Spare Hat]

She probably asked for a Cruller & feels too conceited to admit it.

[Durinax]

'How do I help rand fulfill his destiny?'

[spoke]

'How do I help rand fulfill his destiny?'

 

She couldn't ask questions, only request 'stuff' from them. You are thinking the wrong doorway.

[Canis Rufus]

As for the bond, I Don't get why people can't accept that it was just passed. The weave was already in place all she had to do was release it. (SHE KNEW WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN) passing it before the event would have tipped her hand during the event would have risked the outcome she knew had to happen. So she held the passing till the last moment. It is that easily done as we have seen since.

 

Probably because Jordan said that a bond could be released, but only if the Warder was present? Now, transferring the bond apparently doesn't require the Warder to be present (Lan didn't know Moiraine had set it up), but Moiraine says that it will transfer on her death. Moiraine can't lie (not Black Ajah), so that would suggest that she had to "die," or some condition Moiraine didn't know about.

 

Semantics aside the point is still the same. She prepped the weave to pass/transfer/release Lan. As for her “lie,” it is only a lie if they think it a lie. To her mind and the way we have seen her logic work her death was eminent. She knew that if she went through the door she would likely never come out again. She had accepted that she would die. Her letter even states the very exact way that they must try and even then the likely hood of their failure.

 

As for the wish having to be stuff… well all she had on her was the bracelet so that sort of kills that idea. I agree with the concept that the wish could be anything, not just stuff. Knowledge of all weaves, the ability to see the future, or any other thing along those lines.

[Arc]

This idea just dawned on me.. What if she asked for the true interpretation of the prophecies of the Dragon? :O

[Avalonjohn44]

Moraine died, just in the sense that Mat died (and then came back). That's when the bond passed to Myrelle (sp?). I base that she did actually die because Lan felt the bond with Moraine snap/dissolve/whatever and it drove him crazy for a while.

And we also know that just passing/releasing the bond doesn't make him go crazy because when Nyn took the bond from Myrelle, he didn't go crazy again.

So I think one of Moraine's other gifts/requests would be to survive/live again.

[Kal-El814]

Moraine died, just in the sense that Mat died (and then came back). That's when the bond passed to Myrelle (sp?). I base that she did actually die because Lan felt the bond with Moraine snap/dissolve/whatever and it drove him crazy for a while.

And we also know that just passing/releasing the bond doesn't make him go crazy because when Nyn took the bond from Myrelle, he didn't go crazy again.

So I think one of Moraine's other gifts/requests would be to survive/live again.

 

It's been confirmed that Mat did NOT die, and merely came very close to death. There's nothing that directly indicates that Moiraine died either; there's no reason to assume that the Finn killed her or that she died "in transit".

[Gathering Storman Norman]

We already know what two of her request were:

- the bracelet angreal

- a way out of finnland

 

That assumes the angreal was not her "key" too. I know that is an assumption, but there is nothing that indicates that it can function the same way Mat's "key" does.

 

However that still leaves her third wish. Most likely it has to be something to help with TG, but I don't have a clue what it could be.