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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Rands coat


maradon
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I've had a hunt through the forums but could not find a thread on this topic, so here it is.

 

I've just finished re-reading ToM and have noticed that there are an unnatural amount of references to Rands new coat. What I want to know is whether this is because there is something special about the coat, or is it simply that the coat is a symbol of Randhi's new mental state. I tried attributing the amount of references to the fact that we see Rand from so many POV's, hence he gets introduced alot through the book. However many of those POV's do not reference other characters clothing.

 

So what do you guys think, is the coat special? or is the coat just a coat?

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I think it's just a coat.

 

Rand likely keeps wearing it as a reminder of his epiphany on Dragonmount. Everyone else takes particular notice of it because it's so out of (recent) character for him to wear something so plain. Moiraine first forced Rand into a fancy coat to make others see him as someone of standing or authority; someone to be respected. That makes for an interesting contrast now that he commands respect--and not just fear--despite the coat he's wearing. It's a nice metaphor for how he's grown.

 

-- dwn

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Rand likely keeps wearing it as a reminder of his epiphany on Dragonmount. Everyone else takes particular notice of it because it's so out of (recent) character for him to wear something so plain. Moiraine first forced Rand into a fancy coat to make others see him as someone of standing or authority; someone to be respected. That makes for an interesting contrast now that he commands respect--and not just fear--despite the coat he's wearing. It's a nice metaphor for how he's grown.

And a nice parallel to Dumai's Wells.

 

"I... need to keep moving while I’m sure it is still working," he said slowly, then turned quite quickly back to the wardrobe. "This will do," he exclaimed, pulling out a plain coat of green wool. "I didn’t know this was in there."

 

It was the coat he had worn coming back from Dumai’s Wells, and she could see his hands tremble as he remembered.

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I definitely agree that Rand's coat is an important symbol of something. It's mentioned far too often to believe otherwise.

It could be a subtle reference to his newly found humility - he lost most of his old arrogance in ToM. Or it could be related to his new understanding of self. He alludes to it a couple of times.

 

"I thought I was being forged into a sword," Rand said, eyes growing distant. "But I was wrong. I'm not a weapon. I never have been."

"Then what are you?" Min asked, genuinely curious.

 

when you find Logain and those loyal to him, deliver him a message for me."

"What message, my Lord?"

Rand looked distant. "Tell them that I was wrong. Tell them that we're not weapons. We're men. Perhaps it will help.

 

We are left to wonder what exactly he means. I admit I have no idea what the answer is but the cloak is likely symbolically related to it whatever it is. something along the lines of him realizing that he is the ultimate servant - the ultimate Aes Sedai.

 

 

It could also be reflective of some external symbolics like the robe the Jesus wore before his crucifiction or the cloak that the Hermit wears as Linda at the 13th depository suggests

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/character-parralels-rand.html

 

But the cloak is certainly important. I also find it curious that Rand's reflection in TAR during his epiphany is NOT wearing the cloak but rather his Asha'man coat in Moridin's favorite colors.

 

Rand wore a coat of black and red. Fine and ornamented, with a sword at his waist. The winds didn't affect Rand's clothes. Those fell unnaturally still, as if he really were just a statue. Carved from stone. The only thing that moved was his dark red hair, blowing in the wind, thrown and spun.

 

I'm not sure what the different clothing signifies here.

Edited by herid
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Could it be as simple as "he's no longer wearing Moridin's colors"? I feel like BWS wanted to make it clear (and Rand as well) that Rand has broken free from Moridin's/the DO's grasp. He's back to his old self.

 

On that last quote, it's interesting that he was wearing a coat of black and red in the dream at the end of ToM. It makes me wonder if this wasn't Rand's dream at all, but Moridin's???

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On that last quote, it's interesting that he was wearing a coat of black and red in the dream at the end of ToM. It makes me wonder if this wasn't Rand's dream at all, but Moridin's???

That's an interesting observation. I don't think it's Moridin's dream directly but it could be a TAR manifestation of Moridin seeping through the link.

wait, I just reread that scene and I see no mentioning of Rand wearing red and black there.

Edited by herid
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But the cloak is certainly important. I also find it curious that Rand's reflection in TAR during his epiphany is NOT wearing the cloak but rather his Asha'man coat in Moridin's favorite colors.

 

Rand wore a coat of black and red. Fine and ornamented, with a sword at his waist. The winds didn't affect Rand's clothes. Those fell unnaturally still, as if he really were just a statue. Carved from stone. The only thing that moved was his dark red hair, blowing in the wind, thrown and spun.

 

I'm not sure what the different clothing signifies here.

 

Note that he was wearing red and black in TAR while he was giving serious consideration to destroying the world and handing the Dark One victory. Perrin lost sight of Rand when Rand was consumed by darkness, and when the light tore apart the darkness around Rand, Rand had disappeared. Perrin didn't see Rand in TAR post-revelation. What I think that it indicates is that Rand was very much like Moridin at that moment; he came to the exact same philosophical conclusion, that endless turnings of the Wheel led only to the same pain and heartache and failure over and over again.

 

 

A few notes:

 

I. As was noted above, I love how in the beginning, Rand hated his fancy coats but came to understand that by wearing them people gave him some automatic respect, and eventually got to the point where wearing coats with heavy amounts of lace and gold became his standard wardrobe. And now? Completely unnecessary. His presence alone is enough to make the Hall of the Tower swallow their tongues. :myrddraal:

 

II. Personally, I imagine that Rand's coat looks like a canvas duster. It's described as a sleeved cloak in some places, and I think that it's pretty badass to imagine Rand looking like he walked off the set of a Western movie. Seriously, reread the scene of Rand walking into the Hall, imagine him wearing a long duster, and with this playing. If that doesn't scream badass to you, then I'm sorry but you're deaf. Also, I totally had the theme from

running through my head while Rand was on his way to confront the Borderlander monarchs.

 

III. In The Dragon Reborn, Rand might have been wearing a similar cloak; when people briefly spotted him, they saw him wearing a long brown cloak. Given that Rand picked up his current cloak used, it seems quite possible to me given the world the way that the Pattern twists things, that Rand might be wearing the exact same cloak. A few years older, damaged in countless ways but mended and better than ever. The cloak too.

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But the cloak is certainly important. I also find it curious that Rand's reflection in TAR during his epiphany is NOT wearing the cloak but rather his Asha'man coat in Moridin's favorite colors.

 

Rand wore a coat of black and red. Fine and ornamented, with a sword at his waist. The winds didn't affect Rand's clothes. Those fell unnaturally still, as if he really were just a statue. Carved from stone. The only thing that moved was his dark red hair, blowing in the wind, thrown and spun.

 

I'm not sure what the different clothing signifies here.

 

Note that he was wearing red and black in TAR while he was giving serious consideration to destroying the world and handing the Dark One victory. Perrin lost sight of Rand when Rand was consumed by darkness, and when the light tore apart the darkness around Rand, Rand had disappeared. Perrin didn't see Rand in TAR post-revelation. What I think that it indicates is that Rand was very much like Moridin at that moment; he came to the exact same philosophical conclusion, that endless turnings of the Wheel led only to the same pain and heartache and failure over and over again.

 

yes, that's a reasonable explanation. it could also be that it's even more literal and Moridin is seeping through the link.

 

 

 

 

III. In The Dragon Reborn, Rand might have been wearing a similar cloak; when people briefly spotted him, they saw him wearing a long brown cloak. Given that Rand picked up his current cloak used, it seems quite possible to me given the world the way that the Pattern twists things, that Rand might be wearing the exact same cloak. A few years older, damaged in countless ways but mended and better than ever. The cloak too.

That would be pretty cool but is apparently not the case

Last night, he had traded his fine black coat to a Tinker for a common brown cloak, ragged on the bottom and stitched in places. Not a Tinker cloak, just one that a Tinker had sewn up for a man who had never returned to claim it.

-tGS, Ch49

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That would be pretty cool but is apparently not the case

Last night, he had traded his fine black coat to a Tinker for a common brown cloak, ragged on the bottom and stitched in places. Not a Tinker cloak, just one that a Tinker had sewn up for a man who had never returned to claim it.

-tGS, Ch49

I recognize where he got it, but my point is that it might have taken a winding path through various hands to return to him. He takes the Stone, the old cloak gets discarded, someone picks it up second hand, figuring it has some good wear in it still. It changes hands a few times, it gets damaged a bit, it goes to the Tinkers who repair it. The guy never comes back, and Rand gets his old cloak back.

 

The Pattern works in mysterious ways. :p

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That would be pretty cool but is apparently not the case

Last night, he had traded his fine black coat to a Tinker for a common brown cloak, ragged on the bottom and stitched in places. Not a Tinker cloak, just one that a Tinker had sewn up for a man who had never returned to claim it.

-tGS, Ch49

I recognize where he got it, but my point is that it might have taken a winding path through various hands to return to him. He takes the Stone, the old cloak gets discarded, someone picks it up second hand, figuring it has some good wear in it still. It changes hands a few times, it gets damaged a bit, it goes to the Tinkers who repair it. The guy never comes back, and Rand gets his old cloak back.

 

The Pattern works in mysterious ways. :p

Ah, got you. yes, you are right, it could have happened that way. I doubt we will ever find out though.

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That would be pretty cool but is apparently not the case

Last night, he had traded his fine black coat to a Tinker for a common brown cloak, ragged on the bottom and stitched in places. Not a Tinker cloak, just one that a Tinker had sewn up for a man who had never returned to claim it.

-tGS, Ch49

I recognize where he got it, but my point is that it might have taken a winding path through various hands to return to him. He takes the Stone, the old cloak gets discarded, someone picks it up second hand, figuring it has some good wear in it still. It changes hands a few times, it gets damaged a bit, it goes to the Tinkers who repair it. The guy never comes back, and Rand gets his old cloak back.

 

The Pattern works in mysterious ways. :p

Ah, got you. yes, you are right, it could have happened that way. I doubt we will ever find out though.

 

Well, Sanderson could probably tell us. Honestly, if I could ask him any one question, I think that this would be it. In part because there's a half-decent chance I'd get an answer other than RAFO.

 

 

 

In any case, I urge you all to picture Rand walking around in a duster while western music plays.

 

for a Storm of Light. I realize that it's the sort of scene where some thrash metal seems like the obvious choice, or some Wagner if classical music is going to be used. But reread the scene with this playing and I think that you'll agree it suits perfectly.

 

Try listening to this in the scene in Rand's dream where he meets Lanfear. It suits amazingly. Like one of the comments on the video says, you can hear death coming while listening to this.

 

is what I hear when Rand walks into the Stone to confront his mistakes early in the book.

 

Rand + duster = total badass.

Edited by Hopefire
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when you find Logain and those loyal to him, deliver him a message for me."

"What message, my Lord?"

Rand looked distant. "Tell them that I was wrong. Tell them that we're not weapons. We're men. Perhaps it will help.

We are left to wonder what exactly he means.

I don't think we have to. Grady explains it - rather than having something to fight for, they all now have something to live for.

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when you find Logain and those loyal to him, deliver him a message for me."

"What message, my Lord?"

Rand looked distant. "Tell them that I was wrong. Tell them that we're not weapons. We're men. Perhaps it will help.

We are left to wonder what exactly he means.

I don't think we have to. Grady explains it - rather than having something to fight for, they all now have something to live for.

Hmm, That could be it I guess but I'm not sure. I have a feeling there is more to it than that.

 

 

 

 

 

In any case, I urge you all to picture Rand walking around in a duster while western music plays.

 

for a Storm of Light. I realize that it's the sort of scene where some thrash metal seems like the obvious choice, or some Wagner if classical music is going to be used. But reread the scene with this playing and I think that you'll agree it suits perfectly.

 

Try listening to this in the scene in Rand's dream where he meets Lanfear. It suits amazingly. Like one of the comments on the video says, you can hear death coming while listening to this.

 

is what I hear when Rand walks into the Stone to confront his mistakes early in the book.

 

Rand + duster = total badass.

Man, I love my Ennio Morricone. Had all of those in my iTunes collection for a long time.

Edited by herid
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when you find Logain and those loyal to him, deliver him a message for me."

"What message, my Lord?"

Rand looked distant. "Tell them that I was wrong. Tell them that we're not weapons. We're men. Perhaps it will help.

We are left to wonder what exactly he means.

I don't think we have to. Grady explains it - rather than having something to fight for, they all now have something to live for.

Hmm, That could be it I guess but I'm not sure. I have a feeling there is more to it than that.

 

Sounds to me like he's going to finish Min's viewing that Cadsuane started. Rand has been taught laughter and tears again, but not the rest of the asha'man.

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That's assuming that Min's viewing even refers to laughter and tears, which I have always thought was unlikely. Too obvious, aside from not making much sense.

I'm sure you know this but for the benefit of the others... Linda at the 13th depository thinks that it refers to Cadsuane unmasking Taim as Moridin using her ter'angreal. That would be really really cool.

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That's assuming that Min's viewing even refers to laughter and tears, which I have always thought was unlikely. Too obvious, aside from not making much sense.

 

Maybe what Cadsuane has to teach the ashaman is to trust, even if only slightly, the aes sedai. As things stand the ashaman really don't like the aes sedai, except for maybe a few like Nynaeve. For the light to have a chance they're going to have to start working together. And the asha'man are definitely not going to like working with the aes sedai.

Edited by Master Ablar
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That's assuming that Min's viewing even refers to laughter and tears, which I have always thought was unlikely. Too obvious, aside from not making much sense.

I'm sure you know this but for the benefit of the others... Linda at the 13th depository thinks that it refers to Cadsuane unmasking Taim as Moridin using her ter'angreal. That would be really really cool.

I haven't investigated Taim=Moridin thoroughly yet (I intend to soon), but I tend to think it's unlikely. Also, this doesn't really satisfactorily explain why they won't like learning it from her. On top of that, we've already seen that once with Semirhage. Let's do something different this time.

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That's assuming that Min's viewing even refers to laughter and tears, which I have always thought was unlikely. Too obvious, aside from not making much sense.

I'm sure you know this but for the benefit of the others... Linda at the 13th depository thinks that it refers to Cadsuane unmasking Taim as Moridin using her ter'angreal. That would be really really cool.

I haven't investigated Taim=Moridin thoroughly yet (I intend to soon), but I tend to think it's unlikely. Also, this doesn't really satisfactorily explain why they won't like learning it from her. On top of that, we've already seen that once with Semirhage. Let's do something different this time.

 

Good point, it would be rather repetitive. Besides I can't really see someone pretending to be Taim. It would have to be a "full-time job" so to speak and Moridin is rather busy already in the blight. Not to mention it would be rather risky for the guy who is supposed to be at the top for the shadow.

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That's assuming that Min's viewing even refers to laughter and tears, which I have always thought was unlikely. Too obvious, aside from not making much sense.

I'm sure you know this but for the benefit of the others... Linda at the 13th depository thinks that it refers to Cadsuane unmasking Taim as Moridin using her ter'angreal. That would be really really cool.

I haven't investigated Taim=Moridin thoroughly yet (I intend to soon), but I tend to think it's unlikely. Also, this doesn't really satisfactorily explain why they won't like learning it from her. On top of that, we've already seen that once with Semirhage. Let's do something different this time.

Oh, I didn't say that I definitely buy Taim=Moridin. I just think that it would be really cool if Cadsuane did that. as for Asha'man not liking it I guess the argument would be that they would not like realizing that they were total dupes for such a long time. and yes, you do have a point about Cadsuane unmasking Semirhage that way but we've seen repeated plot tricks like that before. I'm really tired of various Forsaken seemingly being bumped off and then brought back to life one way or the other.

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Oh, I didn't say that I definitely buy Taim=Moridin. I just think that it would be really cool if Cadsuane did that. as for Asha'man not liking it I guess the argument would be that they would not like realizing that they were total dupes for such a long time. and yes, you do have a point about Cadsuane unmasking Semirhage that way but we've seen repeated plot tricks like that before. I'm really tired of various Forsaken seemingly being bumped off and then brought back to life one way or the other.

Well, that's kind of different because it's a little less specific and a little more 'Well of course the Dark One is going to bring back his Chosen from the dead as often as he deems it appropriate.' For that matter, a lot of people argue against my preferred theory on Rand's resurrection with the repetition argument. But that's different too.

 

My guess on Cadsuane doing something really cool in AMOL has more to do with her going out in a blaze of glory. To teach them what? Hard to say. But I bet they won't like learning it that way.

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for a Storm of Light. I realize that it's the sort of scene where some thrash metal seems like the obvious choice, or some Wagner if classical music is going to be used. But reread the scene with this playing and I think that you'll agree it suits perfectly.

For another truly epic score, go here and download the long version of "Chosen" from the composer's (Robert Duncan) official website. It always makes me think of Rand when I hear it.

 

My guess on Cadsuane doing something really cool in AMOL has more to do with her going out in a blaze of glory. To teach them what? Hard to say. But I bet they won't like learning it that way.

I can see Cadsuane going out in a blaze of glory after exposing Taim as a Darkfriend or Forsaken. The Asha'man won't like learning their M'Hael is a Darkfriend.

Edited by sleepinghour
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for a Storm of Light. I realize that it's the sort of scene where some thrash metal seems like the obvious choice, or some Wagner if classical music is going to be used. But reread the scene with this playing and I think that you'll agree it suits perfectly.

For another truly epic score, go here and download the long version of "Chosen" from the composer's (Robert Duncan) official website. It always makes me think of Rand when I hear it.

 

My guess on Cadsuane doing something really cool in AMOL has more to do with her going out in a blaze of glory. To teach them what? Hard to say. But I bet they won't like learning it that way.

I can see Cadsuane going out in a blaze of glory after exposing Taim as a Darkfriend or Forsaken. The Asha'man won't like learning their M'Hael is a Darkfriend.

 

Well, they at least won't like the response from the rest of the world to the M'Hael being a Darkfriend. Many, if not most, already know (and are also Darkfriends).

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