Wheel of Time Mafia Game Thread

[DrewRiley]

@Mynd - Why didn't you vote for David Hermes? Why didn't you vote for Blackhoof? Why did you originally say you didn't have a power and then claim a power? What else did you learn from your "three questions" item? Why did you reveal your roleblock during the night, giving mafia the chance to frame me?

[bgrishinko]

I find this last post to be quite insulting to the rest of the players in the game. BG is essentially saying that people are blindly following me instead of making up their own minds and following their own logic. Last time I checked, we have a number of players with a number of theories, not all of them agreeing with me and none have written me off completely as innocent. That's good scum-hunting.

 

It takes more than one player to reach a majority and all I have been doing is casing suspects, poking them, and presenting options. Unlike BG, I have been looking at every player in the game, even the inactive ones, looking for signs of scum. BG, Drew, and Curt are only focused on one player because I am seen as a threat.

 

I will not insult everyone's intelligence by saying "what happens when I flip innocent?" therefore causing a WIFOM of epic proportions. In my opinion, CurtDragon is acting paranoid, Drew overreacted and ruined my gambit, and BG is trying to distract us from the Drew lynch.

 

The only thing that gives me pause right now is BG's motivation. If Drew is his third mason member, then he probably should just come out and say it instead of leading a lynch on his accuser. It doesn't make me scum to accuse him and right now we need as much information as possible.

 

BG, is Drew your third mason member?

 

 

BG was not insulting the rest of the players, in fact he was supporting the different styles of play that Mynd claims are signs of obvious Scum. BG was merely implying that the bandwagons are a result of the mafia coming to support Mynd's manipulative posts, adding more weight to the lynch than they would normally get.

 

BG has also been focused on every player, but when he had bad feelings about one, he laser focused on one until he was satisfied. BG did this with Aemon on Day one, he was later satisfied with the explanations given and dropped his accusations. BG was one of the first to vote for David. He later laser focused on Blackhoof as well. BG had focused on Mynd once before, but Aemon's find of innocent held him at bay. BG even focused in on Ahmoondah when the vote began to stack up... he wasn't fully convinced at the time, but agreed it wasn't a baseless lynch. He later changed his vote to Vambram before the vote went out because he wasn't fully convinced of Moon. With the possibility of Mynd being a Godfather and/or Aemon's probable naive finder role, he picked up the Mynd flag.

 

 

Mynd tried to lump BG in with Drew and Curt, but other than a dislike of Mynd, they had no connection. Drew was not a part of BG's Mason Team. BG agreed that some of what Drew says was a little panicky, but it hadn't been nearly as damning as Mynd's actions.

[aemonkristen]

Here's my dilema; Mynd is now claiming that his dragon reborn claim was serious and he got a power out of it. I can see why he would have kept it quiet if that were the case. It makes sense that he would want to work under the radar with so many other people attracting attention. I get that. What I don't get is why I would be a naive finder and Mynd would get a roleblock. It makes no sense since it is now obvious that neither of us are the true dragon reborn. His A list has also bothered me to no end. Either he is scum that tried to get us to lynch everyone whose name started with an A or he was just playing the odds that with so many A names one of them had to be mafia. Either way, it is not townie behavior. For these reasons I am comfortable voting MYND. I am also still highly suspicious of Curt, but that can wait till another time.

[Myndrunner]

Aemon, there is more evidence in my posts that should make it blatant to anyone with a thesaurus that I am for the town and against any threats to it. Anyone who hasn't seen what I am referring to likely doesn't have the same thing to reference. The thing is, I've assumed a lot in this game so far to reach the conclusions that I have come to. I don't know why you would have some, pardon my Iliannese, bastard-lame-ass naive finder power unless my role-block has been useless as well.

 

Why did I hold off on fleshing out my claim? Simple, I read the books and I know what happens to false dragons. Thing is, I don't have a name so you being Logain is another oddity.

 

The funny thing is.....lets say I made the whole thing up about the A-List. Only mafia would know that for sure. Lynching me doesn't validate anything because I still could be town and a lying liar who lies just to stir up the game. So for you to completely dismiss my claim is puzzling.

 

You were pissed that I didn't follow through with the whole Amadine lynch and yet now you question me. You are really showing signs of mafia right now.

 

@ All Town Players - read my message carefully and you should know I am town. I understand anyone's skepticism at me, that's a good thing. It means you are playing the game; however, there is a campaign at work here.

 

Remember, it takes more than one player to make a mafia team. I stand alone.

[hotpocket2006]

I'm with you for now mynd ^^ I have read your posts carefully, and I think overall you've been pro town, albeit crazy. But I've seen the kind of stuff you do when you're town and this isn't a character change at all. I did form my own opinion on everyone I have voted for. I do that in every mafia game I've ever played. I don't let peoplelead me anywhere. I never have and never will. So for any of you saying that mynd is leading everyone, that's a cop out and untrue and frankly insulting the intelligence of players who are forming their own opinions and they just happen to match someone who is verbal about it.

[Myndrunner]

I'll take each question individually....

 

@Mynd - Why didn't you vote for David Hermes?

 

Why didn't you vote for Blackhoof?

 

Why did you originally say you didn't have a power and then claim a power?

 

What else did you learn from your "three questions" item?

 

Why did you reveal your roleblock during the night, giving mafia the chance to frame me?

 

I'm glad you brought up David Hermes, aka. Be'lal the Mafia Roleblocker. To be honest, I didn't think he was scum. If I was scum with him, wouldn't I have added my name to the bandwagon to appear innocent?

 

With Blackhoof, I actually thought I did vote him and went on with my day thinking I did. It wasn't until later that I realized that I hadn't unvoted. Sure, I've been known to do such mafia tricks in the past, but this was an honest mistake.

 

Again, there are a lot of things at play in this game and I didn't want to put my neck out there until things played out a lot more. Why announce to the world that I was a town role-blocker and slap a target on my back before I could use it?

 

I learned two things of worth. I had to specify which questions were to the Mod and which ones were to the snakes. I wasted the first one on Songs 1.0 (aka. Perrin), trying to figure out where the truth was but my question was poorly worded and I ended up with something along the lines of who she targeted not if it was valid or not, nor what the effects were. The "Who is Mafia?" question was second and thus birthed the A-List. The third and final question was who I am because I am not a named player. The bloody snakes said "Why, you're Myndrunner of course!" I can hear their hissing laughter now, sounds like Womby! *shakes fist*

 

I revealed my role-block because it didn't matter. This all occurred late at Night, so most night actions were likely already submitted. Even if they had held off on compulsion or silence, they couldn't take the chance that I would name one of their own as my target.....unless they didn't think of that. That would explain your reaction. Sounds more like D'oh!

 

The fact that you are so sure they have indeed framed you leads me to believe you purposely didn't use your power and were surprised that I chose you. DrewoftheRushes is likely Graendel. Sweet role, bro....but you messed up.

[Myndrunner]

I'm with you for now mynd ^^ I have read your posts carefully, and I think overall you've been pro town, albeit crazy. But I've seen the kind of stuff you do when you're town and this isn't a character change at all. I did form my own opinion on everyone I have voted for. I do that in every mafia game I've ever played. I don't let peoplelead me anywhere. I never have and never will. So for any of you saying that mynd is leading everyone, that's a cop out and untrue and frankly insulting the intelligence of players who are forming their own opinions and they just happen to match someone who is verbal about it.

 

LOL @ the irony in bold!

[Naeann]

Aemon, there is more evidence in my posts that should make it blatant to anyone with a thesaurus that I am for the town and against any threats to it. Anyone who hasn't seen what I am referring to likely doesn't have the same thing to reference. The thing is, I've assumed a lot in this game so far to reach the conclusions that I have come to. I don't know why you would have some, pardon my Iliannese, bastard-lame-ass naive finder power unless my role-block has been useless as well.

 

Why did I hold off on fleshing out my claim? Simple, I read the books and I know what happens to false dragons. Thing is, I don't have a name so you being Logain is another oddity.

 

The funny thing is.....lets say I made the whole thing up about the A-List. Only mafia would know that for sure. Lynching me doesn't validate anything because I still could be town and a lying liar who lies just to stir up the game. So for you to completely dismiss my claim is puzzling.

 

You were pissed that I didn't follow through with the whole Amadine lynch and yet now you question me. You are really showing signs of mafia right now.

 

@ All Town Players - read my message carefully and you should know I am town. I understand anyone's skepticism at me, that's a good thing. It means you are playing the game; however, there is a campaign at work here.

 

Remember, it takes more than one player to make a mafia team. I stand alone.

 

 

This makes the SECOND time you have said something of this nature. Possibly more as I haven't finished catching up but I wanted to make note. We, as the town/innocents/good guys do not stand alone. We have to work together to hunt the scum and get rid of them. For you to continually say you stand alone sends up the red flag for me.

[Myndrunner]

Good point, Nae, and that could be misleading. I should clarify.....in my opinions I stand alone. That could imply that I am some kind of Solo Win character, which is not the case. I take that back and offer the following.....

 

I am working alone. There are those who agree with some of what I say and those who don't agree with much at all. Mafia, on the other hand, work together even if it is to desperately act like they are not.

[Nynaeve]

Heh, the only reason I'm more active now is because I finally gave in a huge ass paper and now have more free time to participate. But if people want to read into the apparent timing of it, go right ahead.

 

I read pretty much all what's been going on. I've played with Mynd before and it's always been easy to mark him as scum because he's so outspoken and he likes to squeeze people like grapes. This time around, though, I feel like he just might be telling the truth. Was he involved in the direction of some of the lynches? I'm sure he was. I don't need to do any reread to know that. Both he and, Red, for instance, are very driven players and they can't sit still. They're on 'go go go power rangers mode'.... and if it wasn't for those kind of players, we would never reach a consensus. I'm not saying it's a reason to keep scum around, but rather that it makes perfect sense to me that Mynd's name pops up when it comes to pushing the game along. So I don't find that to be scummy.

 

Secondly, you case Mynd and show where he neglected to vote or where he voted to lynch town.... But you could go around casing each and every player of the game and you'll find in all of us instances where we didn't vote when a scum was bagged or we voted and ended up lynching town..... so frankly, at least that aspect of the casing means squat. It takes two to tango.... and it takes a hell of a lot more to lynch :P

 

The casing was good, don't get me wrong. It had some good points. But then, Mynd likes to set traps and poke for reactions, so I'm not really seeing shadiness, but rather him being sneaky yet cautious to see if someone is going to take his baits.

 

I'm keeping my vote on Curt for now, unless I feel forced to change it to avoid a random modkill...

 

Now I'm going to go pack up the lappy cause have a loooooooong bus ride home. Keep your fingers crossed that there are no kids on the bus >.<

 

 

 

Nyn

[DrewRiley]

@Nyn (and others who have played w/ Mynd) - I trust you in the sense that you know how Mynd operates a lot better than I do, so you have an advantage there. But 1) Mynd seems smart enough to know his meta and be able to play off of it, and 2) How do you explain all the evidence?

 

Mynd's defense in regards to the votes is fine - there's really no way to clear that up, sometimes the votes are just unlucky, but sometimes when you see a pattern like that you have to just take a chance and see if it's a coincidence or not. I'm definitely not buying his explanation on the three questions (sounds fabricated to me), the roleblocking power (Aemon's got a good point), or announcing his power to set up a potential frame. I am glad he finally decided to straight up answer questions, but it still comes with an accusation.

 

@Mynd - I don't think anyone got a name with their role PM. I don't think Aemon was told he's Logain, we've just been inferring that for a while. It could be totally different.

 

24 hours to go, everyone. We have a lot of people that haven't checked in today, so if you've been lurking, time to speak up! Critical Juncturz People!

[Myndrunner]

Drew, be careful being so emotionally invested in your opinion that you can't see the scum standing beside you.

 

You say that there is plenty of evidence, but everything you have pointed to is complete conjecture. I've given my answers to your questions and you still push anyway, hoping to keep enough votes on me until we get close to deadline.

 

So Drew, answer this for me please. If you had your choice to lynch either CurtDragon, BG, or Aemon, who would you choose? Just a hypothetical question, I'd like to know who you would choose of those three. Who would give us the most information?

[killuliu]

While Mynd helped with the Taim lynch, Taim was not town or Mafia and therefore was, to a mafia's eyes Town.

 

That's an interesting claim, as neutral can be as disastrous to the town a any mafia.

 

Personally I refuse to wote Mynd, because I just feel that he is a townie (though he is acting strangely I admit, especially the roleblocking-power seems a bit odd, but still!), and I think that Curt and Drew are (and have been for long) more scummy, and maybe even more so now that they push Mynd lynch.

[DrewRiley]

Drew, be careful being so emotionally invested in your opinion that you can't see the scum standing beside you.

 

You say that there is plenty of evidence, but everything you have pointed to is complete conjecture. I've given my answers to your questions and you still push anyway, hoping to keep enough votes on me until we get close to deadline.

 

So Drew, answer this for me please. If you had your choice to lynch either CurtDragon, BG, or Aemon, who would you choose? Just a hypothetical question, I'd like to know who you would choose of those three. Who would give us the most information?

 

You're right that it's dangerous to be laser-focused, but it's more dangerous to dally for three days and get another expensive modkill. I don't have the time to case a bunch of people I don't really suspect. I'm looking at everyone, and I'm more than willing to change my opinion if some evidence comes up, I just see yours as the strongest case right now. Nothing personal!

 

Hmm, if I had my choice I wouldn't lynch any of them right now. If it were between lynching one of them and having a random modkill, I'd lynch Curt, because the evidence right now says the other two are not only town but important town. But Curt's game so far has been exactly like a first-timer, and sometimes that looks scummy but I think I can see it for what it is.

[bgrishinko]

I'm with you for now mynd ^^ I have read your posts carefully, and I think overall you've been pro town, albeit crazy. But I've seen the kind of stuff you do when you're town and this isn't a character change at all. I did form my own opinion on everyone I have voted for. I do that in every mafia game I've ever played. I don't let peoplelead me anywhere. I never have and never will. So for any of you saying that mynd is leading everyone, that's a cop out and untrue and frankly insulting the intelligence of players who are forming their own opinions and they just happen to match someone who is verbal about it.

 

 

 

I read pretty much all what's been going on. I've played with Mynd before and it's always been easy to mark him as scum because he's so outspoken and he likes to squeeze people like grapes. This time around, though, I feel like he just might be telling the truth. Was he involved in the direction of some of the lynches? I'm sure he was. I don't need to do any reread to know that. Both he and, Red, for instance, are very driven players and they can't sit still. They're on 'go go go power rangers mode'.... and if it wasn't for those kind of players, we would never reach a consensus. I'm not saying it's a reason to keep scum around, but rather that it makes perfect sense to me that Mynd's name pops up when it comes to pushing the game along. So I don't find that to be scummy.

 

 

Bgrishinko would like to know, if this is Mynd's normal play style, how in the world is the town supposed to be able to tell the difference from Mynd as scum and Mynd in crazy 'go go go power rangers mode?' If Mynd throws crap at the wall waiting to see what hopefully sticks (as someone else said), lots of crap will invariably stick to innocents. Red did this too, true, but his arguments were well thought out and he posted the evidence to back his claims... despite it being a wall of text. Both Mynd and Song2.0 talk about Mynd acting a little crazy, but they just use "Oh that's just Mynd..." as evidence for town. BG was not unwilling to move a vote, he had other suspicions, but until someone could use logic and sane reasoning to show HOW Mynd has been acting pro-town, BG will not budge.

[bgrishinko]

TYPO: ".... Both Mynd and Song 2.0...." should be "... both Nyn and Song2.0...."

[Myndrunner]

Interesting....BG, what is your definition of Pro-town? How have I not been pro-town? I'm really curious as to what has completely convinced you that I am scum. I know I am town and I am confident that I will flip town if lynched, so I am curious as to what has you convinced otherwise.

@BG, what exactly has you convinced that I am scum? Are you prepared to answer for why I flip town if lynched?

 

I am beginning to have my doubts about BG; however, he could just be misguided. He vouched for Adella, a player who has arguably contributed very little to the game. No offense, but for every one of her posts there are like 40 of BGs.

 

I'm starting to question the Drew lynch simply because I think his overreaction could have been in anticipation of the gambit. Still, it reads like he was ready for my gambit but freaked out when I named him as the target. Either way, it is getting us nowhere. unvote

 

CurtDragon is still high on my list all the way back from his initial reaction to being listed as possible scum. Everyone is possible scum and you cannot dismiss one for being a newbie. I've been PWNED by many a newbie in these games, so no slack there. He's one to watch very closely.

 

What I would like to propose is to lynch Adella. She is, after all, on the A-List, and her lynch will confirm or deny BG's claim to a mason team once and for all. Her lynch would actually be more of a contribution than her activity, or lack there of. Again, this is not a criticism, but a logical observation.

 

If Adella flips innocent, then we can completely trust BG. This gives us a solid base to begin to narrow down who is scum.

 

If Adella flips otherwise, then we know who not to trust and who to lynch.

[bgrishinko]

Bg had thought his previous massive posts were sufficient to show why BG is suspicious of Mynd. He had no proof that Mynd was scum, or anyone else at this point. If Mynd flips Town, then Bg's ideas were wrong and unfortunately doesn't have much to say. Pro-town in BG's definition is to provide well thought out meaningful analysis of why someone could be scum, not calling someone scum then seeing how they react and basing a lynch upon an out of the blue accusation. Anti-town to BG means lynching random people who haven't acted scummy to prove a personal theory true or not. It is telling others how town and mafia are supposed to act. Also lying. Lying is bad. This is why BG believed Mynd scum.

 

Again, if Mynd can show what helpful things he has brought to the table (other than the "A" gambit and your blocked Drew, which was poorly thought out in the nighttime announcement, if it was true).

 

Now Mynd drops his solid case against "Graendal" Drew to attack BG's allies. Odd. Again lynching random people who haven't acted scummy to prove a personal theory true or not.

[Verbal32]

Wanna know a crazy fact? I don't have a name. Up until now, I didn't think it would matter but this is why I was curious if Vambram knew all along he was Taim, and if Aemon knows he is Logain. I've been scratching my....head...at trying to figure out which one I could be, but then again, I could be Myndrunner the False Dragon. (see list of false dragons)

 

One thing that the observant town-oriented player can say with certainty is that I am quite likely town. Anyone with a thesaurus would have a pretty good idea that my alignment and win condition are true if they have been paying attention.

 

We can put the whole letter A thing aside for now and concentrate on which lynch makes the most sense. Kwom Masbag has disappointed me big time, but if he is mafia, then his inactivity is a bonus to us. If he's innocent, why lynch him? unvote

 

I prefer to go after a more active player who is only reading what he wants to see in posts rather than doing any actual scum casing. He freaked out when he saw his name among 12 others as a list of possible lynches. That kind of overreaction leads me to believe that Curtdragon is not acting like a scum-hunter but more like a scum-huntee.

 

Stop exaggerating, Mynd.

 

 

 

I'm comfortable lynching Mynd or Curt given the arguments posted by everyone else.

It would be good to discover the validity of Aemon's arguments/

Mynd has been pinging scummy from early on, but Curt has as well.

Mynd pings me harder.

 

Vote Mynd

Why are you basing your vote on "pinging"? How does that help town. If you are going to vote me, at least present a decent argument for why. You seem to be bandwagoning behind Drew here.

 

@Drew, why are you coming after me when I voted Curt? How come you are so locked into that gambit that you are ignoring the current flow of the game? The mafia would have already submitted their night action last night without knowing who my target was, so they can't do anything about it. I find it interesting that we haven't found anyone with compulsion yet.

 

Folks, I think Drew's reaction is quite scummy. He is freaking out because I blocked him and saying that the mafia would use that to frame him. For his logic to make sense, he must believe me to be innocent. For that to make sense, he would have to be mafia himself and knows that no one will show any signs of compulsion. Besides, if you know that I am innocent, why vote for me? If you believe my role-blocking power, then you believe me to be innocent.

 

unvote curtdragon

 

vote DrewoftheRushes

 

You played a great game Drew, but we gotcha. Just curious, are you Graendel?

 

Again, stop exaggerating. Is Drew scum? Who knows. But you're doing it again....that thing where you point the finger of suspicion at every player in the game and then are like "Gotcha!" when they flip scum.

 

 

 

You see, mafia tend to fall for this trick, even players as experienced as Verbal (Christmas Mafia) and Kivam (DPR's Ctulu mafia on MJ). They are so focused on misdirection and discrediting the towines that they forget to act like a scum-hunter. Drew has been laser focused on the gambit that I made about waiting around to see who is compulsed and who isn't. All I did then was reveal who I blocked, without any statement at all or fingers pointing. We were well on our way to lynch Curt.

 

So, let me see if I have this right. Drew thinks that because I said during this day that I chose him to be blocked that the mafia, who had already sent in their actions the night before, that I am laying a trap for him. In order to follow his own logic, one must first believe that I have such a power in the first place.

 

He fell for the trap because, like a lot of maifa scum, he was more focused on the gambit and not on the casing.

 

Hehe...I remember that game! My scum team wasn't online and I was nervous they would fall for that trap. You had *just* pulled that stunt on somebody else recently, so I decided to sac myself for my scum team. I figured you already had me nailed with suspicion, so I might as well take the plunge. If you saw our scum chat, you'd know I called your trap before jumping into it. ;-)

 

 

 

Ok, for the folks wondering about Mynd. His general style is to beat the grass to startle the snakes. He fires from the hip at people early on to gauge reactions and takes note of it. Then he uses that info later in the game to help him case those players. He's very aggressive by style, and is quite the wordsmith.

 

Pros: can sometimes catch an overeager or inexperienced mafia in his traps, and sometimes a veteran one that thinks Mynd's ploy is aimed at somebody else (I've seen, and been a part of, each of these instances - it can work).

 

Cons: he can completely distract the town from the scumhunt by having them focus on him. If he's town, that just does the mafia's work for them (what I've accused Mynd of in this game).

 

 

Based on a re-read of Mynd's posts, and my knowledge of how he plays, I believe Mynd to be town. I'm also worried that he's currently working in the "con" section of his effectiveness and is distracting the town in too many directions.

 

 

@Mynd - stop the 'spray & pray' method. You've voted for 3 different people today. We need to focus (I keep telling you this!) today. If we are wrong, we gather our info and move on. But you're working us towards another random lynch. We can't have that again.

[bgrishinko]

BG had simply thought that if somebody were to propose a lynch on someone who had not been previously cased: A good case should be given for others to consider and judge for themselves. Mynd did this for Drew, but all the evidence came directly from an action from Mynd that nobody can verify happened. BG wondered what gave Mynd the idea that Drew was the compulsor/silencer in the first place? What evidence did Mynd have to justify the roleblock? Adella: the "A" theory comes from a comment Mynd claims to have received from the snakes. As this comes from an item, it should be verifiable if Mynd gave it away or had it stolen. It has not been verified. Ahmoonda: Basis for entire lynch was she was quiet and was a part of the "A" gambit.

 

 

 

 

 

[Nynaeve]

Red is a she ;)

 

 

 

Nyn

[bgrishinko]

Red is a she ;)

 

 

 

Nyn

 

BG is bad at this gender thing on Message boards... BG felt

[hotpocket2006]

Actually I've never played a mafia game with Mynd where he has been scum, at least that I can remember. So I can't say whether he changes his style or not. I do however know he is acting the same way he does when he is town. I believe he is town. Has he been a distraction? Yes. Has he inspired lots of talk? Yes. I'm not voting for mynd. Right now I'm more than happy with a drew lynch, that's where my vote is now. Or a curt lynch. I think they are pretty scummy, and will give us the most information.

[bgrishinko]

Actually I've never played a mafia game with Mynd where he has been scum, at least that I can remember. So I can't say whether he changes his style or not. I do however know he is acting the same way he does when he is town. I believe he is town. Has he been a distraction? Yes. Has he inspired lots of talk? Yes. I'm not voting for mynd. Right now I'm more than happy with a drew lynch, that's where my vote is now. Or a curt lynch. I think they are pretty scummy, and will give us the most information.

 

"Fair Enough," thought BG.

[Quibby]

Mynd, whether you're lying or not, careful with the hints.

 

And just saying that, I'm painting a huge target on myself.

 

Now I find myself in an awkward position, as I have way too many people to choose from based on my own reasoning about Curt. Mynd's targeting of other people to discredit them has been noted, filed, and kept in mind. Unfortunately, no matter what it says about my innocence or guilt, I've got to keep my vote where it is. If the hints from Mynd are true, then I don't want to see that particular role go.