Taim is Demandred

[Morist]

Sorry to start another topic in this area, but during a reread I noticed the following interesting thing:

 

Sammael's messenger to Rand was compelled in such a way, that the Forsaken could speak through him and control all his actions (including making him bleed to death apparently).

 

Theory: could Demandred be sitting in an armchair somewhere and controlling Taim 24/7 through a weave similar to what Sammael used?

 

This would corroborate Rand's (or rather his past memory's) aggressive reaction to Taim as he would be using Demandred's voice and/or similar body gestures (since Dem is in control, it would be logical that these would be similar).

[Terez]

No, for the same reason we know Taim wasn't turned to the Shadow. There was obviously something wrong with Andris, just as there is obviously something wrong with Tarna and Mezar. Taim, not so much. The descriptions aren't even remotely similar in either case.

[OptimusPrime]

No, because Tain is Moridin. The False Dragon was Taim himself, but from Lord of Chaos onwards thats Moridin

[Cutlass]

Taim is Taim - no differnt than a BA sister with a big job (CEO of the Black Tower) he answers to Morridin and does what he's told. He may not be another forsaken - but he would apper to be a step up on any other current dredlords - might even make get a better job out of the deal if Greandal keeps wasting the curent batch of forsaken. Of course he still has to survive the hostile takeover that Logain is going to throwdown in aMoL.

[Lord D]

Can everyone stop with these damn Taim = Demandred theories??!! It was proven conclusively in WH that Taim is NOT Demandred, and RJ has since explicitly denied it. Dem controlling Taim would make no sense either in light of the WH scene when Dem didn't recognise Flinn.

[Muad Cheade]

No, because Tain is Moridin. The False Dragon was Taim himself, but from Lord of Chaos onwards thats Moridin

Taim is Taim. Moridin is Moridin.

[OptimusPrime]

No, because Tain is Moridin. The False Dragon was Taim himself, but from Lord of Chaos onwards thats Moridin

Taim is Taim. Moridin is Moridin.

 

We shall see my friend

[MichaelOfTheWhite]

Haha Jordan states something's a red herring and the fans still can't let it go... :)

 

Reminds me of how fish react to a ball of bread being dropped into their tank.

[Annia]

Didn't we bury this crap ages ago? Why is it finding its way to surface once more?

[Vermillion]

I don't think Taim is Moridin. For one thing the bond that Moridin and Rand have would make it certain that Taim using the one power probably a lot doesn't make Rand sick while Moridin does. I don't think Taim can get away with using the TP all the time at the black tower since his support is not 100 percent.

[KefkaPalazzo]

No. He's not a nice guy, but aside from the statement made, the personalities don't match. Taim is cynical and sarcastic with a twisted sense of humor. Demandred is straightforward (personality-wise), relatively idealistic, and has no sense of humor at all.

[plague fiend]

Can everyone stop with these damn Taim = Demandred theories??!! It was proven conclusively in WH that Taim is NOT Demandred, and RJ has since explicitly denied it. Dem controlling Taim would make no sense either in light of the WH scene when Dem didn't recognise Flinn.

 

Please humor me, what is WH and how do I find this information regarding Taim and Dem.? Also, where did RJ deny it? Trying to learn my way around the forms and boards. Thanks....

[Terez]

If you'll look in Winter's Heart (WH) ch. 35, there is a Demandred POV in which he fights Flinn and does not recognize him. If you'll look in the reference library link in my sig, there is a link within to the interview database, and everything RJ ever said about Demandred is on the Demandred page (linked under The Forsaken). Also, if you'll look in the FAQ link in my sig, you'll see a page dedicated to Demandred as well, which lays out all of the evidence having to do with his identity and/or activities.

[plague fiend]

No. He's not a nice guy, but aside from the statement made, the personalities don't match. Taim is cynical and sarcastic with a twisted sense of humor. Demandred is straightforward (personality-wise), relatively idealistic, and has no sense of humor at all.

Demandred's personality reflects his need to be praised above everyone else, especially Lews Therin. Taim show this same personality trait. Look at what he does, no pins to mark his station within the BT. M'Hael, "Leader", or the dragons embroidered on his uniform, which usurps Rands declaration as the Car'a'carn/Dragon Reborn. There are a lot of other signs as well, such as his ability with military matters. I'm looking for more direct or indirect information regarding this post, so if anyone has some input I would appreciate it.

[plague fiend]

If you'll look in Winter's Heart (WH) ch. 35, there is a Demandred POV in which he fights Flinn and does not recognize him. If you'll look in the reference library link in my sig, there is a link within to the interview database, and everything RJ ever said about Demandred is on the Demandred page (linked under The Forsaken). Also, if you'll look in the FAQ link in my sig, you'll see a page dedicated to Demandred as well, which lays out all of the evidence having to do with his identity and/or activities.

Thanks for all the information. I'm reading Winters Heart right now. Just starting in fact.

[yoniy0]

Thanks for all the information. I'm reading Winters Heart right now. Just starting in fact.

Be warned. This board features spoilers from all published WoT books, including ToM.

[zidfrekle]

[plague fiend]

Thanks for all the information. I'm reading Winters Heart right now. Just starting in fact.

Be warned. This board features spoilers from all published WoT books, including ToM.

Thanks for the warning, but I knew going in that was a possibility. Sometimes, it can be just as fun getting to the spoiler. Thanks again.

[jemron]

I voted "yes" only based on the mini sub-title part of this thread. Taim is NOT Demandred. But I've believed for years that Taim IS Demandred's proxy. I don't think he's controlled by Demandred in the same fashion that the dude Sammael "hacked into" was; but I do think he's controlled by him somehow or was trained by him. They are two individuals, they have two different personalities, but they're definitely in "cahoots."

 

I'm also recently more willing to accept the fact that Taim is Moridin; but I'm not totally sold on that idea just yet.

[plague fiend]

I voted "yes" only based on the mini sub-title part of this thread. Taim is NOT Demandred. But I've believed for years that Taim IS Demandred's proxy. I don't think he's controlled by Demandred in the same fashion that the dude Sammael "hacked into" was; but I do think he's controlled by him somehow or was trained by him. They are two individuals, they have two different personalities, but they're definitely in "cahoots."

 

I'm also recently more willing to accept the fact that Taim is Moridin; but I'm not totally sold on that idea just yet.

Regarding the Taim/Moridin idea, Is it possible to be able to touch the True Source and Saidin? If not then Taim could not be Moridin. He has channeled in front of Ashaman and Rand, they wouldn't be able to see him touching the True Source.

[capuga]

I voted "yes" only based on the mini sub-title part of this thread. Taim is NOT Demandred. But I've believed for years that Taim IS Demandred's proxy. I don't think he's controlled by Demandred in the same fashion that the dude Sammael "hacked into" was; but I do think he's controlled by him somehow or was trained by him. They are two individuals, they have two different personalities, but they're definitely in "cahoots."

 

I'm also recently more willing to accept the fact that Taim is Moridin; but I'm not totally sold on that idea just yet.

Regarding the Taim/Moridin idea, Is it possible to be able to touch the True Source and Saidin? If not then Taim could not be Moridin. He has channeled in front of Ashaman and Rand, they wouldn't be able to see him touching the True Source.

 

I assume you mean the True Power (the power from the Dark One)?

 

Yes, in fact it is necessary to be a channeler in order to use the Dark One's True Power. All the Forsaken can channel saidar/saidin and they have all had access to the True Power at some point in their lives.

 

However, there are numerous other reasons that Taim=Moridin is very, very unlikely.

[plague fiend]

I voted "yes" only based on the mini sub-title part of this thread. Taim is NOT Demandred. But I've believed for years that Taim IS Demandred's proxy. I don't think he's controlled by Demandred in the same fashion that the dude Sammael "hacked into" was; but I do think he's controlled by him somehow or was trained by him. They are two individuals, they have two different personalities, but they're definitely in "cahoots."

 

I'm also recently more willing to accept the fact that Taim is Moridin; but I'm not totally sold on that idea just yet.

Regarding the Taim/Moridin idea, Is it possible to be able to touch the True Source and Saidin? If not then Taim could not be Moridin. He has channeled in front of Ashaman and Rand, they wouldn't be able to see him touching the True Source.

 

I assume you mean the True Power (the power from the Dark One)?

 

Yes, in fact it is necessary to be a channeler in order to use the Dark One's True Power. All the Forsaken can channel saidar/saidin and they have all had access to the True Power at some point in their lives.

 

However, there are numerous other reasons that Taim=Moridin is very, very unlikely.

Yeah, I was referring to the True Power. Thanks for the clear-up. To clarify my question, for example, can a man(Moridin) who can channel the True Power, chose whether he wants to channel Saidin or the True Power? I wasn't aware that a person could touch the True Power, without it being gifted, before the weird stuff started happening. I thought RJ said Ishmael touched the True Power and not only did it cause his eyes and mouth of flames, but touching the True Power would kill Ishmael quicker the more he used it.

[yoniy0]

It is.

Rand does it, after all.

[plague fiend]

It is.

Rand does it, after all.

 

Yeah, it's true about Rand, but I got the impression that it was not the norm. RJ said that a person could touch the True Power, without the DO permission, but it would be difficult and at that time know one knew how. The Forsaken seem to be able to touch the True Power it seems, but don't because of the effects it has on them.

[jemron]

I'm pretty sure Ishy touched both, but he preferred to touch the TP because it's highly addicting. Before Moridin was given exclusivity to the TP, all the Forsaken had access, but Moggy said very few of them were willing to pay the price of using it, so they stuck with the regular OP instead. This says to me that they had/have a choice. Ishy is not forced to only use the TP, he just chooses to because it is more addicting than the OP and he can use it undetected. The price is high though, and eventually his eyes and mouth will be open caverns of fire again.