Caralain Grass

[Durinax]

no, the person I want is probably somewhere in the caralain grass.

 

my question is who would rand want that is in the caralain grass?

[Ashandarei]

no, the person I want is probably somewhere in the caralain grass.

 

my question is who would rand want that is in the caralain grass?

 

Can we get some context for that quote? And maybe a reference- Book? Chapter?

[Ananta]

Maybe the dude pressed "Start New Topic" instead of "Add Reply" by an accident? D:

[herid]

no, the person I want is probably somewhere in the caralain grass.

 

my question is who would rand want that is in the caralain grass?

Read on. This is explained in "The Storm of Light".

 

@Ashandarei: Rand asked Cadsuane to look for someone in Caralain grass at the end of ToM, "For what has been wrought". That person is found and shows up at the end of "The Storm of Light".

[Saguin Venart]

He sent Cadsuane who looked for and found Alsalam king of Arad Doman

[yoshinobu]

Wow, first time I read this i though he was asking for WoT pot ...

[Ashandarei]

@Ashandarei: Rand asked Cadsuane to look for someone in Caralain grass at the end of ToM, "For what has been wrought". That person is found and shows up at the end of "The Storm of Light".

 

My thanks, herid. I remember it now, and yeah, what Saguin said.

[Terez]

I just added a section on Alsalam to the Demandred FAQ page. It's at least a little bit fishy.

[Lacanos]

I just added a section on Alsalam to the Demandred FAQ page. It's at least a little bit fishy.

If I can focus on this, there's more than one issue with this theory IMO, although I'm willing to be corrected.

Firstly, Elaida may well have set out to kidnap rulers as soon as she took power; the triptych etc indicated that she wanted to restore the WT to its power over thrones that it formerly possessed.

 

Then;

"TITLE - Towers of Midnight

EPILOGUE - And After

 

Graendal hurriedly gathered what she needed from her new palace. From her desk, she took a small angreal Mesaana had traded her in exchange for information. It was in the shape of a small, carved ivory knife; she'd lost her gold ring in al'Thor's attack.

 

What information could Mesaana have wanted from Graendal? Technically, it could have been anything...but since we need an explanation for the oddity with Alsalam, it seems to be the most likely possibility. The exchange was certainly mentioned for a reason, and since Mesaana is allied with Demandred, then it seems plausible at least that Demandred is using Alsalam as a plant."

 

This trade most likely took place AFTER Graendal's palace was destroyed (else she'd probably have lost this knife-angreal then also). If she wasn't wearing a ring that was an angreal, it's unlikely she'd be carrying a knife that was.

 

As for the lean old man in a wrinkled coat, I think it's a stretch to leap to it being Alsalam. Alsalam is described in "A Storm of Light" as wearing regal clothes (and presumably if this was Demandred, he'd copy Alsalam's dress sense). Furthermore, Sammael should really be able to recognise him from descriptions he's heard if so (or at least Graendal would probably be afraid to display him anyway).

[herid]

 

This trade most likely took place AFTER Graendal's palace was destroyed (else she'd probably have lost this knife-angreal then also). If she wasn't wearing a ring that was an angreal, it's unlikely she'd be carrying a knife that was.

 

 

That's how I would read this too. Also, while we are never given Alsalam's age I have an impression that he is middle aged, rather than old. Graendal keeps his youngest sister as a pet. That means she must be very beautiful and fairly young. typically the age difference between even the oldest and the youngest siblings is not that great so I would not put Alsalam to be much past 50 if that. Graendal also keeps Alsalam's oldest daughter as a pet. That would seem to indicate that he might have pretty young children other than that daughter which would also support the notion that he is middle aged.

[GYLD]

One possibility is that he was Jain Farstrider. We know he was under Compulsion...but all of the evidence points to him having been used by Ishamael, not Graendal. Of course, she might have snatched him up after Ishamael died...but why? Why would Graendal have him spy on Darkfriends in Ebou Dar?

 

Well, we do know Graendal was keeping tabs on Sammael. Sammael who had Darkfriends looking for the cache of angreal and ter'angreal in Ebou Dar. It would be within reason that she would want to know if Sammael did end up finding it and what better way than to send an agent of your own to watch the people hunting the cache?

 

Just an idea. I've a feeling I'm forgetting something that'd completely blow a hole in it.

[dwn]

The reappearance of Alsalam struck me a a bit contrived, but not fishy. Given the fast pace of TGS and ToM, I'm willing to put up with minor plot elements like this feeling a bit out of place.

 

In response to a few points of the FAQ article:

 

First off, it seems quite odd that the Aes Sedai would be able to find him...

 

His disappearance was caused by the Aes Sedai. They could find him because he was exactly where he was supposed to be: ruling Arad Doman.

 

t seems incredibly unlikely that Graendal would simply allow Alsalam to go free...

 

Greandal worked through the existing ruling structure of Arad Doman. If she had any Compulsion hooks in Alsalam himself, it would be relatively light so as not to alert anyone. Since her main goal was sowing chaos rather than conquest, it makes more sense for her to ignore the king and meddle with mid-level bureaucrats.

 

...long before the White Tower started kidnapping kings...

 

We don't know precisely when Elaida decided to have them kidnapped, but it's quite likely one of the first things she set in motion as Amyrlin, to make sure they were in hand before the Dragon could conquer their lands.

 

...there are only two real options as to who that man was...Jain Farstrider...Alsalam.

 

We've been shown that Graendal is far more devious than she lets on. The man in question could just a hint that she isn't completely obsessed with 'pretty' and 'powerful' as she' superficially made out to be. I agree that it'd be nice to know who he was, but I agree he likely wasn't Jain, and apparently he wasn't Alsalam either.

 

-- dwn

[Terez]

I just added a section on Alsalam to the Demandred FAQ page. It's at least a little bit fishy.

If I can focus on this, there's more than one issue with this theory IMO, although I'm willing to be corrected.

Firstly, Elaida may well have set out to kidnap rulers as soon as she took power; the triptych etc indicated that she wanted to restore the WT to its power over thrones that it formerly possessed.

Siuan was deposed on day 458 of the series - Asmodean indicated that Graendal was in Arad Doman well before then - and Rand's epiphany on Dragonmount was a whole year later. Mattin Stepaneos disappeared on day 657, which is about when Rand assumed Alsalam to have disappeared.

 

This trade most likely took place AFTER Graendal's palace was destroyed (else she'd probably have lost this knife-angreal then also). If she wasn't wearing a ring that was an angreal, it's unlikely she'd be carrying a knife that was.

Indeed, it took place after. But Graendal gave Mesaana 'information', not Alsalam himself, presumably.

 

As for the lean old man in a wrinkled coat, I think it's a stretch to leap to it being Alsalam.

Tell that to Luckers.

 

Alsalam is described in "A Storm of Light" as wearing regal clothes (and presumably if this was Demandred, he'd copy Alsalam's dress sense).

Probably, but if he was a prisoner in Graendal's palace, there's nothing to say he should have been dressed like a king.

 

Furthermore, Sammael should really be able to recognise him from descriptions he's heard if so (or at least Graendal would probably be afraid to display him anyway).

It was Rahvin, not Sammael, and also, if Semirhage didn't recognize Mat, then why should Rahvin have recognized Alsalam?

 

First off, it seems quite odd that the Aes Sedai would be able to find him...

 

His disappearance was caused by the Aes Sedai. They could find him because he was exactly where he was supposed to be: ruling Arad Doman.

But he hasn't been ruling Arad Doman since well before Elaida took over. Graendal has been, and no one on the Council of Merchants has seen him in half a year in TGS.

 

Greandal worked through the existing ruling structure of Arad Doman. If she had any Compulsion hooks in Alsalam himself, it would be relatively light so as not to alert anyone. Since her main goal was sowing chaos rather than conquest, it makes more sense for her to ignore the king and meddle with mid-level bureaucrats.

But she couldn't allow the king to rule, could she?

 

We've been shown that Graendal is far more devious than she lets on. The man in question could just a hint that she isn't completely obsessed with 'pretty' and 'powerful' as she' superficially made out to be.

Her own thoughts say otherwise. Also, even if she wasn't so obsessed, then there was no reason for an old man to be there unless he had some use for her.

[Terez]

By the way, I'm open to moving this one to the 'loony theories' section (I'm actually not sure why I didn't put it there in the first place), but it still looks rather fishy to me. Also, I seem to remember having come up with a few ideas on what else Graendal might have told Mesaana, but I'm not thinking any of those ideas were compelling.

 

I have always favored the idea that the old man was Farstrider, just because Ishamael didn't seem to like using Compulsion much, preferring other methods. I get the impression that Ishamael, Sammael, and Demandred are the type to think Compulsion is the last resort of those not skilled enough to accomplish their goals otherwise.

[dwn]

By the way, I'm open to moving this one to the 'loony theories' section (I'm actually not sure why I didn't put it there in the first place), but it still looks rather fishy to me. Also, I seem to remember having come up with a few ideas on what else Graendal might have told Mesaana, but I'm not thinking any of those ideas were compelling.

 

I have always favored the idea that the old man was Farstrider, just because Ishamael didn't seem to like using Compulsion much, preferring other methods. I get the impression that Ishamael, Sammael, and Demandred are the type to think Compulsion is the last resort of those not skilled enough to accomplish their goals otherwise.

 

It's certainly built from highly circumstantial evidence, but I wouldn't say it's more loony than many other theories. The question of what information Graendal could have given Mesaana that was worth an angreal, though, is pretty interesting. Perhaps something to do with Aran'gar?

 

Now a real loony theory would be something like: Per the DO's instructions in LoC, Demandred is using an obscure balefire paradox to duplicate himself. He'll show up in AMoL leading an entire army of Demandreds.

 

-- dwn