Loose Ends

[Callern]

And btw, posted this in the Demandred thread tho:

 

“All we have is one reference to ‘Lands under the Shadow, beyond the setting sun, beyond the Aryth Ocean, where the Armies of Night reign"

 

Text in the Fal Dara dungeon, written in blood.

What is this? Verin thought it might be the Seanchan, but last time I checked, they're not darkfriends, and the army is called The Ever Victorious Army.

 

Edit; Might this be the army Demandred is gathering?

[jemron]

And btw, posted this in the Demandred thread tho:

 

“All we have is one reference to ‘Lands under the Shadow, beyond the setting sun, beyond the Aryth Ocean, where the Armies of Night reign"

 

Text in the Fal Dara dungeon, written in blood.

What is this? Verin thought it might be the Seanchan, but last time I checked, they're not darkfriends, and the army is called The Ever Victorious Army.

 

Edit; Might this be the army Demandred is gathering?

 

Good one. I'm really hoping that we learn a lot of what was in Verin's notes besides BA names. I assume the "Armies of Night" are just the Trolloc Hordes, but I also assume that Moridin and Ishy both are going to be running a lot of that.

[capuga]

And btw, posted this in the Demandred thread tho:

 

“All we have is one reference to ‘Lands under the Shadow, beyond the setting sun, beyond the Aryth Ocean, where the Armies of Night reign"

 

Text in the Fal Dara dungeon, written in blood.

What is this? Verin thought it might be the Seanchan, but last time I checked, they're not darkfriends, and the army is called The Ever Victorious Army.

 

Edit; Might this be the army Demandred is gathering?

 

Good one. I'm really hoping that we learn a lot of what was in Verin's notes besides BA names. I assume the "Armies of Night" are just the Trolloc Hordes, but I also assume that Moridin and Ishy both are going to be running a lot of that.

 

The Armies of the Night were the native Seanchan armies that Luther Hawkwing defeated to consolidate an empire there.

[nolirion]

 

I strongly suspect that Herid was killed by Ishy/Moridin. This is because Ishy was the philosopher among the Forsaken, the true scholar who joined because he learned about the never-ending battle with the DO in the circular wheel of time as ages pass. Probably what happened was he learned that Herid was looking into these old prophecies and histories and had found a clue that would aid in sealing the DO away. Ishy being Ishy, it's much more likely he knew the various prophecies etc much better than any other forsaken especially since he was never properly sealed away(in addition to his scholar/philosopher background). So he offed Herid using the gholam. Or so I believe.

For a scholar he is not that bright , he know the DO as been defeated countlessly , that whatever the odd he gets fried , he still decide to join the "winning" side .

I mean if 114 man (even of the most powerful of their age ) come and beat my So cold all powerful entity in is stronghold I will seriously rethink my theory.

[capuga]

 

I strongly suspect that Herid was killed by Ishy/Moridin. This is because Ishy was the philosopher among the Forsaken, the true scholar who joined because he learned about the never-ending battle with the DO in the circular wheel of time as ages pass. Probably what happened was he learned that Herid was looking into these old prophecies and histories and had found a clue that would aid in sealing the DO away. Ishy being Ishy, it's much more likely he knew the various prophecies etc much better than any other forsaken especially since he was never properly sealed away(in addition to his scholar/philosopher background). So he offed Herid using the gholam. Or so I believe.

For a scholar he is not that bright , he know the DO as been defeated countlessly , that whatever the odd he gets fried , he still decide to join the "winning" side .

I mean if 114 man (even of the most powerful of their age ) come and beat my So cold all powerful entity in is stronghold I will seriously rethink my theory.

 

But they only temporarily beat him. He's still around to threatened our current Randlanders isn't he. The problem is, they can defeat him over and over for millions of years but it only takes him winning one time. The odds of that happening are pretty high.

[nolirion]

Well considering odd I might get stroke by a tiny rock from the other side of the universe (trillions of trillions of chance if I am not lucky ) yet I don't go in an open field siting and waiting for that to happen .

 

Yes you are right if the Do win is victory is absolute , yet here he was alive and all thing consider living a pretty comfortable life , Is very presence ,and for that mater humanity ,was a testimony to the Do failure (I think that why he wanted Rand to give up ).

 

Edit : Just crazy talk ; but well I can see why he choose that path yet after three thousand year I find it odd that he keep up with that routine .

[SvetSedi]

Too many to list, but here are a few.

 

Who was responsable for the gateway line in the snow & big stink that Valda noticed when he went to see Ashawana?

 

What was up with Andol - that he needed to be secretive about knowing how to use a horse bow and that he had traveled to islands that the Sea Folk seldom visited?

 

What happens to Galina with the Shaido?

 

What happened to all those Power wrought things in Aiel city?

 

What happened to the Verin's White Tower room that she thinks was FULL of bookcases & chests that were encrypted. She only gave Egewene 2 of many!

 

How could anyone be stupid enough to follow the DO?

[TheAngryDruid]

Well, I'm just going to list some loose ends. The ones at the beginning are the ones I want to have answered most, or think are more likely to be answered, but who knows.

 

1. LB aftermath/Avi's vision. Will there be any? There better be. I'm not saying it has to be like Return of the King, but "the last battle done, but the world not done with battle" was taken to heart. I once thought the LB could finished early, and we might get a whole book (or books) after the LB. Now I'm just hoping for a couple chapters.

2. Do we get an explanation for what Rand and Egwene did for the other 25 days, and why neither thought to do much at the BT, or to help Lan, or the Borderlands.

3. The future of AS, other channelers, and the Oath. Are men integrated?

4. Perrin, Faile, and the Broken Crown.

5. Tinkers and the Song.

6. Loial at the Stump. I need to see something very Entish.

7. How did that whole thing with Avi in Rhuidean work?

8. How were Aes Sedai raised before the breaking? Rand tells Cads he was the only male "properly raised."

9. More on the Sea Folk, were they able to save anyone before word of the end of illusion claimed them all?

10. What is the other male sa'angreal as powerful as Callandor?

11. What is Callandor's flaw? Is it related to the Fisher King (vulnerable when in attack).

12. Do we get an explanation for Rand's new powers.

13. More AS stuff. I'm hoping men and women getting together leads to the rediscovery of making ter'angreal easier (the ones Elayne has trouble with), or angreal/sa'angreal. Or choras. Or Nym.

14. Sea Folk: Talaan and Merrilille + how does what's her name get to be Mistress of the Ships.

15. Does Tuon every take her head out of her rear?

16. Do Mat and Tuon every properly get together?

17. Do any of our dearly departed get bound to the Wheel? (Hopper, Verin, Ingtar).

18. Do we get an explanation for what has been happening at the BT? What happens to Tarna doesn't jibe with the description of the 13x13 trick. Can they be turned back? I'd love an attempt.

19. The fates of Elaida, Galina, (and Sevannah?)

20. Speaking of loose ends, a pipe smoking discussion from Rand (and maybe Lan, Mat, Thom, Byrne, and maybe Perrin) about who is better in bed? Rand = Min, Elayne, Aviendha, Ilyena, or Meirin? Lan = Nynaeve or Myrelle? Mat = Tuon, Tylin, or someone else? Thom = Moiraine, Morgase, or Dena? Byrne = Morgase or Siuan?

[Ashandarei]

20. Speaking of loose ends, a pipe smoking discussion from Rand (and maybe Lan, Mat, Thom, Byrne, and maybe Perrin) about who is better in bed? Rand = Min, Elayne, Aviendha, Ilyena, or Meirin? Lan = Nynaeve or Myrelle? Mat = Tuon, Tylin, or someone else? Thom = Moiraine, Morgase, or Dena? Byrne = Morgase or Siuan?

 

YES.

[randsc]

Rand and Mat might have that discussion. Lan and Thom are men, and men don't generally talk that way about women they are actually currently involved with.

 

Besides, Mat still has no idea if Tuon is any good.

[Brammeri]

I think too often in fiction authors (or maybe publishers) wish every plot strand to be tied neatly up.

Why is this?

In the real world, a story is a snap-shot of life. There aren't always finalities to everything.

In fiction only major plots and large sub-plots need resolution.

I think BS should do the WoT justice and leave a number of things unresolved.

[Brammeri]

Well, I'm just going to list some loose ends. The ones at the beginning are the ones I want to have answered most, or think are more likely to be answered, but who knows.

 

1. LB aftermath/Avi's vision. Will there be any? There better be. I'm not saying it has to be like Return of the King, but "the last battle done, but the world not done with battle" was taken to heart. I once thought the LB could finished early, and we might get a whole book (or books) after the LB. Now I'm just hoping for a couple chapters.

2. Do we get an explanation for what Rand and Egwene did for the other 25 days, and why neither thought to do much at the BT, or to help Lan, or the Borderlands.

3. The future of AS, other channelers, and the Oath. Are men integrated?

4. Perrin, Faile, and the Broken Crown.

5. Tinkers and the Song.

6. Loial at the Stump. I need to see something very Entish.

7. How did that whole thing with Avi in Rhuidean work?

8. How were Aes Sedai raised before the breaking? Rand tells Cads he was the only male "properly raised."

9. More on the Sea Folk, were they able to save anyone before word of the end of illusion claimed them all?

10. What is the other male sa'angreal as powerful as Callandor?

11. What is Callandor's flaw? Is it related to the Fisher King (vulnerable when in attack).

12. Do we get an explanation for Rand's new powers.

13. More AS stuff. I'm hoping men and women getting together leads to the rediscovery of making ter'angreal easier (the ones Elayne has trouble with), or angreal/sa'angreal. Or choras. Or Nym.

14. Sea Folk: Talaan and Merrilille + how does what's her name get to be Mistress of the Ships.

15. Does Tuon every take her head out of her rear?

16. Do Mat and Tuon every properly get together?

17. Do any of our dearly departed get bound to the Wheel? (Hopper, Verin, Ingtar).

18. Do we get an explanation for what has been happening at the BT? What happens to Tarna doesn't jibe with the description of the 13x13 trick. Can they be turned back? I'd love an attempt.

19. The fates of Elaida, Galina, (and Sevannah?)

20. Speaking of loose ends, a pipe smoking discussion from Rand (and maybe Lan, Mat, Thom, Byrne, and maybe Perrin) about who is better in bed? Rand = Min, Elayne, Aviendha, Ilyena, or Meirin? Lan = Nynaeve or Myrelle? Mat = Tuon, Tylin, or someone else? Thom = Moiraine, Morgase, or Dena? Byrne = Morgase or Siuan?

 

 

To be honest, a true end would have the one power blocked along with the DO.

That would change the world massively.

And be a conclusion that would make sense.

[Ashandarei]

To be honest, a true end would have the one power blocked along with the DO.

That would change the world massively.

And be a conclusion that would make sense.

 

I can't even begin to explain how depressing that would be... the loss of the OP that is.

[Brammeri]

To be honest, a true end would have the one power blocked along with the DO.

That would change the world massively.

And be a conclusion that would make sense.

 

I can't even begin to explain how depressing that would be... the loss of the OP that is.

 

 

Why, because the WoT is enjoyable because of the magic? Not in my book...

I think that having the source removed from the grasp of everyone in the world of the WoT makes for a fantastic finish.

And I'm not sure that RJ didn't imagine that too.

No gateways, no OP to use for almost everything, so many people that can use (and abuse) the OP.

It makes too much sense.

[herid]

To be honest, a true end would have the one power blocked along with the DO.

That would change the world massively.

And be a conclusion that would make sense.

 

I can't even begin to explain how depressing that would be... the loss of the OP that is.

 

 

Why, because the WoT is enjoyable because of the magic? Not in my book...

I think that having the source removed from the grasp of everyone in the world of the WoT makes for a fantastic finish.

And I'm not sure that RJ didn't imagine that too.

No gateways, no OP to use for almost everything, so many people that can use (and abuse) the OP.

It makes too much sense.

 

This would have been a possibility (RJ himself mentioned that there are some Ages when nobody can channel) but we can rule it out in this case. Min sees a viewing of a woman in Bandar Eban (ToM, Return to Bandar Eban) who'll be trained as Aes Sedai.

That would not be possible without OP around.

[Brammeri]

To be honest, a true end would have the one power blocked along with the DO.

That would change the world massively.

And be a conclusion that would make sense.

 

I can't even begin to explain how depressing that would be... the loss of the OP that is.

 

 

Why, because the WoT is enjoyable because of the magic? Not in my book...

I think that having the source removed from the grasp of everyone in the world of the WoT makes for a fantastic finish.

And I'm not sure that RJ didn't imagine that too.

No gateways, no OP to use for almost everything, so many people that can use (and abuse) the OP.

It makes too much sense.

 

This would have been a possibility (RJ himself mentioned that there are some Ages when nobody can channel) but we can rule it out in this case. Min sees a viewing of a woman in Bandar Eban (ToM, Return to Bandar Eban) who'll be trained as Aes Sedai.

That would not be possible without OP around.

 

I think all the certainty in Min's viewing is going to be a shock in the last book when it is not certain any longer.

I think if you want to make sure that something major happens, you've got to have a major change that distorts what has gone before.

Otherwise, Avi and Rand's children will bring about the end of the Aiel and the Seanchan will rule the Wetlands.

Can't say that RJ wished (or decided) that to be the case.

 

I think that Rand breaking the last seal and then re-sealing the DO at the Final Battle will change a lot of things.

The only question is how much fans will like it.

[herid]

To be honest, a true end would have the one power blocked along with the DO.

That would change the world massively.

And be a conclusion that would make sense.

 

I can't even begin to explain how depressing that would be... the loss of the OP that is.

 

 

Why, because the WoT is enjoyable because of the magic? Not in my book...

I think that having the source removed from the grasp of everyone in the world of the WoT makes for a fantastic finish.

And I'm not sure that RJ didn't imagine that too.

No gateways, no OP to use for almost everything, so many people that can use (and abuse) the OP.

It makes too much sense.

 

This would have been a possibility (RJ himself mentioned that there are some Ages when nobody can channel) but we can rule it out in this case. Min sees a viewing of a woman in Bandar Eban (ToM, Return to Bandar Eban) who'll be trained as Aes Sedai.

That would not be possible without OP around.

 

I think all the certainty in Min's viewing is going to be a shock in the last book when it is not certain any longer.

I think if you want to make sure that something major happens, you've got to have a major change that distorts what has gone before.

Otherwise, Avi and Rand's children will bring about the end of the Aiel and the Seanchan will rule the Wetlands.

Can't say that RJ wished (or decided) that to be the case.

 

I think that Rand breaking the last seal and then re-sealing the DO at the Final Battle will change a lot of things.

The only question is how much fans will like it.

I didn't mention people channeling in Avi's viewings because it's pretty clear that Avi's viewing are only showing what will happen if things proceed as they are. Avi now knows this and will definitely change that. The actual future will be nothing at all like what she saw in Rhuidean. But Min's viewing's can not be dismissed that way. This would be a huge and unfair plot twist flatly contradicting what we've seen before. besides, Brandon said that there are no major hooks in AMoL. At least he said that there are none as big as the surprise about Verin in TGS. What you suggest would be a much bigger hook than that.

[Brammeri]

As far as tying up loose ends, here is BS himself:

 

Will you try finish/resolve every storyline?

BrandonSandrson Tue Jan 04

There are some that Mr. Jordan instructed me not to resolve.

 

http://brandonsanderson.com/article/64/Tweets-January-3-6

 

 

Thank God for that.

[randsc]

To be honest, a true end would have the one power blocked along with the DO.

That would change the world massively.

And be a conclusion that would make sense.

 

I can't even begin to explain how depressing that would be... the loss of the OP that is.

 

 

Why, because the WoT is enjoyable because of the magic? Not in my book...

I think that having the source removed from the grasp of everyone in the world of the WoT makes for a fantastic finish.

And I'm not sure that RJ didn't imagine that too.

No gateways, no OP to use for almost everything, so many people that can use (and abuse) the OP.

It makes too much sense.

 

This would have been a possibility (RJ himself mentioned that there are some Ages when nobody can channel) but we can rule it out in this case. Min sees a viewing of a woman in Bandar Eban (ToM, Return to Bandar Eban) who'll be trained as Aes Sedai.

That would not be possible without OP around.

 

 

The viewing was that she would be trained as an Aes Sedai, not that she would channel. There could still be a world-wide organization of scholars and organizers called Aes Sedai, without them having the ability to channel.

 

Personally, I think the most satisfying ending would be that the next Age dawns without the One Power being accessible. The next Age is the Age of Technology. But the OP still exists, and can become accessible again in some future age.

[capuga]

To be honest, a true end would have the one power blocked along with the DO.

That would change the world massively.

And be a conclusion that would make sense.

 

I can't even begin to explain how depressing that would be... the loss of the OP that is.

 

 

Why, because the WoT is enjoyable because of the magic? Not in my book...

I think that having the source removed from the grasp of everyone in the world of the WoT makes for a fantastic finish.

And I'm not sure that RJ didn't imagine that too.

No gateways, no OP to use for almost everything, so many people that can use (and abuse) the OP.

It makes too much sense.

 

This would have been a possibility (RJ himself mentioned that there are some Ages when nobody can channel) but we can rule it out in this case. Min sees a viewing of a woman in Bandar Eban (ToM, Return to Bandar Eban) who'll be trained as Aes Sedai.

That would not be possible without OP around.

 

 

The viewing was that she would be trained as an Aes Sedai, not that she would channel. There could still be a world-wide organization of scholars and organizers called Aes Sedai, without them having the ability to channel.

 

Personally, I think the most satisfying ending would be that the next Age dawns without the One Power being accessible. The next Age is the Age of Technology. But the OP still exists, and can become accessible again in some future age.

 

I started a thread on this awhile back in the General section but the bottom line is I disagree. Or, at least, I don't think that is where the story is going. I think the build up has been towards a more AoL age of channeling prosperity. Men are now channeling clean saidin. Men and women are starting to work together again. Lost Talents have been rediscovered. Ter'angreal are being made again. We got a large plotline introducing the Black Tower. We got a large plotline putting Egwene in the Amyrlin Seat. I don't think it would make sense to make all these things suddenly irrelevant.

[David Selig]

If channelling disappears after the Last Battle, this would mean that nearly all channellers in the cast, which includes most main characters and whole host of others, would be doomed to die in the next few years - since it's established that if they can't the source any more, the vast majority of them die, Setalle seems to be the exception that proves the rule. I highly doubt Jordan planned it this way, given his reluctance to kill off characters throughout the series.

[herid]

 

 

 

The viewing was that she would be trained as an Aes Sedai, not that she would channel. There could still be a world-wide organization of scholars and organizers called Aes Sedai, without them having the ability to channel.

 

 

Aes Sedai organization of people that can not channel?! This would be a really huge stretch IMO. What would they do? What would be the source of their authority? I can not see this happening. Also, Egwene and Elayne spent a lot of precious screen time in ToM setting up future relationship between women channelers. It's not going to be wasted.

[randsc]

I wasn't predicting what I thought would happen, just stating what I would find most satisfying.

 

I agree that my preferred ending is not likely, though I think it is possible.

 

At the very least, I would like to see:

 

1. An end to all forms of sanctioned, OP-enabled compulsion (A'dam, binding chairs, Warder bonds, Three Oaths)

 

2. An end to the princes-and-princesses, fairy-tale fascism, with the individual and political autonomy of the people of Randland respected.

 

I don't think either of those are likely, either. But they're what I would like to see.

[herid]

I wasn't predicting what I thought would happen, just stating what I would find most satisfying.

 

I agree that my preferred ending is not likely, though I think it is possible.

 

At the very least, I would like to see:

 

1. An end to all forms of sanctioned, OP-enabled compulsion (A'dam, binding chairs, Warder bonds, Three Oaths)

 

2. An end to the princes-and-princesses, fairy-tale fascism, with the individual and political autonomy of the people of Randland respected.

 

I don't think either of those are likely, either. But they're what I would like to see.

Ah well, that's a different matter. You can dream of course. I can dream too. I mentioned in another thread that I'd like to see Egwene pay her toh to Rhuarc in front of everybody at FOM. I'd also like to see Tuon birched by every single domane in Seanchan.

Unfortunately, this is not in the cards and neither is any kind of representative democracy coming to Randlands.

[Brammeri]

To be honest, a true end would have the one power blocked along with the DO.

That would change the world massively.

And be a conclusion that would make sense.

 

I can't even begin to explain how depressing that would be... the loss of the OP that is.

 

 

Why, because the WoT is enjoyable because of the magic? Not in my book...

I think that having the source removed from the grasp of everyone in the world of the WoT makes for a fantastic finish.

And I'm not sure that RJ didn't imagine that too.

No gateways, no OP to use for almost everything, so many people that can use (and abuse) the OP.

It makes too much sense.

 

This would have been a possibility (RJ himself mentioned that there are some Ages when nobody can channel) but we can rule it out in this case. Min sees a viewing of a woman in Bandar Eban (ToM, Return to Bandar Eban) who'll be trained as Aes Sedai.

That would not be possible without OP around.

 

 

The viewing was that she would be trained as an Aes Sedai, not that she would channel. There could still be a world-wide organization of scholars and organizers called Aes Sedai, without them having the ability to channel.

 

Personally, I think the most satisfying ending would be that the next Age dawns without the One Power being accessible. The next Age is the Age of Technology. But the OP still exists, and can become accessible again in some future age.

 

 

If the wheel of time turns then there has to be a next age. Like you say, that is an age of tenchnology. We have the formation of a University and the creation of dragons (cannons).

 

I find it depressing that people on this site are so opposed to any change in the status quo of the world of the WoT.