Will Elayne become a full Aes Sedai?

[maddface]

We have precedence for AS queens, the last queen of Manetheren was AS and a few others named in the book. As far as Elayne acting as both AS and queen,when she met with the borderland army, she acted as Elayne Sedai of the Green Ajah rather than the queen/daughter heir. If she can make that distinction there, she can make the distinction when making decisions later. Also, Nooska brought up the point I was also gonna bring up about how AS are not required to follow the Amyrlin's orders or the 4th oath Eladia suggested would of been a moot point.

 

As far as if she becomes AS or not, I gotta agree with Beldomon. She is my least favorite character in the book.

[akira.taylor]

We have precedence for AS queens, the last queen of Manetheren was AS and a few others named in the book. As far as Elayne acting as both AS and queen,when she met with the borderland army, she acted as Elayne Sedai of the Green Ajah rather than the queen/daughter heir. If she can make that distinction there, she can make the distinction when making decisions later. Also, Nooska brought up the point I was also gonna bring up about how AS are not required to follow the Amyrlin's orders or the 4th oath Eladia suggested would of been a moot point.

 

As far as if she becomes AS or not, I gotta agree with Beldomon. She is my least favorite character in the book.

 

Actually, I think Aes Sedai are required to do what the Amyrlin tells them . . . legally. The Hall and Amyrlin can interfere in an Aes Sedai's business (although they don't as a rule, because it's rude), so even if they considered Andor/Cairhien Elayne's business, they could still tell her what to do there. Now, if the Hall and Egwene are smart (which many don't expect them to be, and comittees are known for not being in the long term), they won't interfere.

 

Well, that's my recollection/interpretation of the situation, at least.

[ranjitb]

in both Sweden, Norway and Denmark there are priests elected to the respective parliaments, Denmark even has a priest serving as a minister - though they do not practise as priests that is purely a practical matter as they are too busy tending their jobs as MP's

 

Somewhat of a sidebar, but I can only assume that in Scandinavia these priests are Lutherans, and thus do not have a central governing authority to which they are beholden.

 

Priests of the Catholic Church are a different matter entirely, since the Catholics DO have a central authority figure (in the Pope, and his Cardinals) who for centuries DID in fact wield political power that rivaled, or in many cases, superceded that of other Monarchs.

 

The Elayne as AS and queen situation is parallel to the Catholic and not the Protestant situation, in as much as potential conflicts of interests.

Imagine if you will, Cardinal so-and-so becomes President of Spain. Well now suddenly the Pope demands that Spain provide tariff free trade and other subsidies to The Vatican. I'm not saying he will or won't, or he will be instantly stricken down with a bolt of hellfire if he doesn't but he will be in a position where he would be sworn to obey an external authority (The Pope) against the best wishes of the people he is governing.

 

ETA - it's even more interesting given that we have been treated to an endless litany of both external displays ("TEAR DOWN YE BANNERS Rant Rant Rant") and internal monologues ("HOW DARE HE Rant Rant Rant") from Elayne about the impropriety of the appearance of an external authority over the Lion Throne, if she docilely exchanges the Dragon Fang for the White Flame.

 

I would call it a laughable double standard, but it isn't even that, since Rand has shown no inclination, ever, to tell her to do anything with Andor, while our beloved All-Mother armed with nothing else than what amounts to an internal resolution of the white tower is demanding Armies to stand beside her, and nearly ruined the reunion of Gawasshole and his mother by her intention to make all the Trakands kneel and kiss her ring in a public forum.

[Ananta]

Sort of off topic, but I thought that in AoL they used Oath Rod (or what ever it was called back then) to punish criminals, so that they are unable to repeat their crimes, and also halves their lifespan as punishment for the crime.

[Ashandarei]

Sort of off topic, but I thought that in AoL they used Oath Rod (or what ever it was called back then) to punish criminals, so that they are unable to repeat their crimes, and also halves their lifespan as punishment for the crime.

 

Yep. As I stated earlier:

 

Somehow I don't see Rand Therin letting one of his loved ones Bind herself so that she'll die at half the age she can live. (Until/unless the retiring into Kin thing is accepted by the Tower, that's what her fate will be) At least not without putting up a serious argument/debate about it with her.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

A) An Amyrlin who believes that the greatness of a leader is expressed by how much control they have. Egwene's primary criteria to separate the great leaders from the weak is how much control over the Hall and the Tower each woman was able to wield.

I disagree with your interpretation. Read her chapters since she was imprisoned in the Tower, and you might find a different Egwene. One that understands true leadership. Before that, yes. She was still a child, though quite skillful at manipulation. But most children eventually grow up, as she did.

 

All things considered, Egwene Sedai is well within her legal right to give a command to Elayne Sedai

[...]

It's a massive conflict of interest waiting to happen.

Again, I disagree. There are pitfalls, I won't go as far as denying that, but they are certainly avoidable. Both women are quite intelligent, and able to differentiate between AS business and Andor's. Where Elayne acts as AS, Egwene's within her rights to command her. But where she acts as Queen, her independence can still be maintained. Since Egwene isn't inviting the entire Tower to the meeting at the Field of Merrilor, one has to deduce that Elayne presence there is as Queen of Andor, hence she's free to side with Rand if she so wishes (that's a different story altogether, naturally. So far she seems as put off by the idea of breaking the Seals as Egwene).

 

 

What you're saying sounds reasonable. However this is the legal and political realm we are speaking about. If Elayne chooses to become Aes Sedai and not renounce her rule over her lands we end up with Andor-Cairhien effectively becoming puppet States of Tar Valon. Any direct order of Egwene who is Amyrlin must be followed by Elayne. Elayne refusing to follow the order would constitute disobedience towards the White Tower and following the order would mean subjugating the subjects of her nation to servitude towards the whims of the White Tower.

 

The wisest, smartest and politically advantageous decision would be for Elayne to renounce all affiliations to the White Tower and defrock herself form the Aes Sedai order.

I thought we finished that business about chains of command, seperation of stations and all that in Perrins thread.

That said, there are no legal requirements for an As to obey the amyrlin seat - if there were, there would be absolutely nothing to sniff at with Elaidas suggestion that that be added as a 4th oath - further, we have seen demonstrated, again and again, that AS operate based on their own internal power in their respective ajah's. Elayne will be quite high ranking in whichever Ajah she ends up in (green unless something really weird happens), and the internal leadership of the Ajah is the only one where you really obey - and even then there are very clear limitations on what one As can ask of another. Remember also the tradition stronger than law that you do not interfere in the business of another AS.

 

Lastly, the reason there have not been AS queens for quite a while, this has had nothing to do with becoming puppet states, but because of public mistrust of AS motives.

 

And to return to the priests as politicians - europe does not have such a rule generally at least - Scandinavia I can guarantee does not have it (in both Sweden, Norway and Denmark there are priests elected to the respective parliaments, Denmark even has a priest serving as a minister - though they do not practise as priests that is purely a practical matter as they are too busy tending their jobs as MP's / minister's to be the head of a congregation.

Could you please provide sources for your claim? (you have a bad habit of making claims, and asking people that disagree with you for sources, without having provided any of your own)

 

Is Scandinavia Roman Catholic and possesses a central theocratic figure such as an Amyrlin/Pope? If not, it's entirely immaterial. So far as I am aware due to the structure of the RCC there are no priests which can take political positions without recanting their oaths.

[Pygmalion79]

I don't know if someone has mentioned this in this already all-too-long thread, but the US has had two congressmen in Catholic orders: Robert Drinan, S.J. (1971-1981) and Robert John Cornell, O.P. (1975-1979). In 1980 Pope John Paul II insisted that priests not serve elective office, hence none since.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

I don't know if someone has mentioned this in this already all-too-long thread, but the US has had two congressmen in Catholic orders: Robert Drinan, S.J. (1971-1981) and Robert John Cornell, O.P. (1975-1979). In 1980 Pope John Paul II insisted that priests not serve elective office, hence none since.

 

 

Interesting. I am not too versed in US politics however that is interesting. Albeit it's not the same as the US President (Andoran Queen equivalent) being a priest it's intriguing nonetheless.

[randsc]

I don't know if someone has mentioned this in this already all-too-long thread, but the US has had two congressmen in Catholic orders: Robert Drinan, S.J. (1971-1981) and Robert John Cornell, O.P. (1975-1979). In 1980 Pope John Paul II insisted that priests not serve elective office, hence none since.

 

 

Interesting. I am not too versed in US politics however that is interesting. Albeit it's not the same as the US President (Andoran Queen equivalent) being a priest it's intriguing nonetheless.

 

It's pretty simple, really. The notion that some people have that a Catholic priest would have to follow the orders of his ecclesiastical superiors when it came to secular, political matters is, in a word, garbage. Bigoted, ignorant, anti-Catholic garbage, at that. The Catholic Church does not assert the right to control the secular affairs of its clergy. Priests rountinely inherit property, run private businesses, and yes, sometimes, hold political office.

 

JPII did put an end to the practice of priests holding elective office without the permission of the Vatican. With permission, they can hold elective office. The speculation is that what he was trying to avoid was the Communist regimes in eastern Europe trying to reinforce their legitimacy by placing pet priests in positions within the government.

[Nooska]

This is a completely different situation. Elayne created a new station for Perrin within the existing structure of Andorian nobility; it's unclear exactly to what extent that station is required to be subservient to the throne of Andor. The difficulty lies in the fact that it's a new station, and while comparable precedents may be cited, at the end of the day neither Perrin nor Elayne is bound by precedent, only by what they agree to. With the relationship between Egwene and Elayne, the precedents are already in place. An Amyrlin's decree is law for an Aes Sedai. It's how, among other things, Elayne was raised to Aes Sedai in the first place.

 

I disagree that its a different situation - because what I was referring to was teh discussion of whether Elayne could command Ghealdan (and/or Saldaea) because of Perrins station (which was a seperate discussion from whether Elayne could command Perrin).

The conclusion was that; given that Elayne could command Perrin directly, she could not command him to muster Ghealdan or Saldaea by any precedent in the real world, nor by any precedent in Randland. this was illustrated by Faile adding that he would call his sworn monarchs - which would be moot if Elayne could simply command him to do so.

Regardless, I was mostly expressing a rather articulate sigh over rehashing the same discussion with different figures - the relationship of Amyrlin to Andorhien is the same as Elayne-as-Queen to Ghealdan and/or Saldaea.

 

in both Sweden, Norway and Denmark there are priests elected to the respective parliaments, Denmark even has a priest serving as a minister - though they do not practise as priests that is purely a practical matter as they are too busy tending their jobs as MP's

 

Somewhat of a sidebar, but I can only assume that in Scandinavia these priests are Lutherans, and thus do not have a central governing authority to which they are beholden.

I can't remember off the top of my head how the church works in Sweden or Norway (being a dane), but in Denmark, the King (or Queen Regnant) is the the legal, traditional and moral head of the church and is also the executive of the state (Denmark being a constitutional monarchy retains a LOT of legal provisions from the preceding absolute monarchy) - as a matter of practicality, the current monarch has not taken any active political role in her reign, and the church is run, day to day, by the council of bishops and the church ministry. However, thats the practical side - the de jure side is that th executive is in a position to demand that the clergy follow her decrees (which makes it topical) - even if she doesn't make any decrees.

[ranjitb]

Nooska, the point is that the Queen of Denmark would be BOTH the head of the church as well as the head of the state, and thus there is no inherent conflict of interest. The same is true for the CoEngland.

The Catholics Church is different, because there is a single, foreign entity (in the form of the Pope) who is font of all authority rather than a regional council.

 

Randsc, this isn't bigotry. As I said, there is a vast difference between will, can, and must.

But unfortunately history as shown that power corrupts most people, and therefore in most cases legal frameworks are put into place to counter even the appearance of a conflict of interest.

Alternately, you can think that there are workplace laws against having relationships with your superiors/inferiors not because there is a GUARANTEE of favoritism, but there is the POSSIBILITY of it.

 

Finally, tying it back to WoT, the question initially arose as to would Andor/Cairhien be puppet states of Tar Valon. Well, that is, perhaps, stretching it.

But keep in mind that the (non)existence of a fourth oath is irrelevant - all AS are subject to the absolute authority of the hall, and by extension the Amrylin. There are numerous examples of sisters who have been censured, exiled, punished etc etc for disobeying the Amrylin. A fourth oath would simply make them physically incapable of such.

This is particularly egregious in the case of Elayne, who has publicly and privately railed against even the appearance of Rand's suzerainty (which he has never exercised, or even CLAIMED) while she seems all-too willing to submit to Egwene's demands.

[yoniy0]

This is particularly egregious in the case of Elayne, who has publicly and privately railed against even the appearance of Rand's suzerainty (which he has never exercised, or even CLAIMED) while she seems all-too willing to submit to Egwene's demands.

People should really put aside their feelings for her and think about the issue at hand. She was in a difficult situation. You've all read Dyelin - she wouldn't have supported Elayne if she didn't make it clear she was putting forward her own claim, not accepting Rand's declaration that the Lion Throne belongs to her. His declaring that was very problematic for her in the Andoran inner-stage, she had to distance herself somewhat. And really, what did she do? Removed the flags of a foreign sovereign from her capitol city? Evict his policing force and reclaimed Caemlyn for Andor? Is that really that unexpected? I'd have done so myself, were I in her situation.

[capuga]

This is particularly egregious in the case of Elayne, who has publicly and privately railed against even the appearance of Rand's suzerainty (which he has never exercised, or even CLAIMED) while she seems all-too willing to submit to Egwene's demands.

People should really put aside their feelings for her and think about the issue at hand. She was in a difficult situation. You've all read Dyelin - she wouldn't have supported Elayne if she didn't make it clear she was putting forward her own claim, not accepting Rand's declaration that the Lion Throne belongs to her. His declaring that was very problematic for her in the Andoran inner-stage, she had to distance herself somewhat. And really, what did she do? Removed the flags of a foreign sovereign from her capitol city? Evict his policing force and reclaimed Caemlyn for Andor? Is that really that unexpected? I'd have done so myself, were I in her situation.

 

I would also add to that that I do not believe that she is "willing to submit to Egwene's demands". In fact, I believe the opposite. I believe that Andor will come first and foremost for her and she will not allow Egwene to impose any White Tower agendas into Andor that are not beneficial to Andor. That is the impression I have of the character. She has already started thinking outside the White Tower guidance when she commandeered the Kin to be an Andoran Travel squad for her without discussing it with Egwene.

 

I also do not believe that she will thoughtlessly submit to Egwene (as her Amyrlin) or Rand (as her love) in their dispute. I believe she will hear out both sides and make the decision she feels is best for Andor and the world. Elayne's chapters are often boring and her actions are sometimes reckless, but she is not weak willed, submissive, or dumb.

 

There is nothing contradictory in Elayne having to follow orders from Egwene in regards to White Tower business but being sovereign in decisions that relate to Andor. At least in theory. Whether or not that is practical is another matter.

[David Selig]

PoD, Ch. 20

 

Necessary and right, though; when she sat on the Lion Throne, she would still be Aes Sedai, and subject to the laws and rules and customs of Aes Sedai. Not for Andor—she would not give her land to the White Tower—but for herself.

Seems pretty clear. Of course, this leaves potential for conflict of interests and tricky situations. But certainly Elayne doesn't intend to turn her country into puppet state of anyone.

[Ashandarei]

People should really put aside their feelings for her and think about the issue at hand. She was in a difficult situation. You've all read Dyelin - she wouldn't have supported Elayne if she didn't make it clear she was putting forward her own claim, not accepting Rand's declaration that the Lion Throne belongs to her. His declaring that was very problematic for her in the Andoran inner-stage, she had to distance herself somewhat. And really, what did she do? Removed the flags of a foreign sovereign from her capitol city? Evict his policing force and reclaimed Caemlyn for Andor? Is that really that unexpected? I'd have done so myself, were I in her situation.

 

Firstly, I'd like to mention that she shouldn't need to accept Rand's declaration, but neither should she have had to put forth a claim. The Lion Throne WAS hers. There was never the slightest doubt about the Succession, she was the clear and obvious Heir- the entire matter in Andor with the nobles acting like idiots was incredibly frustrating to read.

 

Elayne's a Trakand and generally they(Morgase, Gawyn, and Elayne) have all acted like total fools through a large portion of the series, it's in their blood. But that's a moot point. The problem with Elayne is that her very first thought upon seeing the Lion Throne on a pedestal that Rand had left her, knowing that it was purely good-intentioned and meant to remind everyone who's supposed to actually be rulling, her first thought was righteous outrage. Really?? Instead of being grateful to Rand for ousting a Forsaken and countless Shadowspawn from her home palace, city, and nation, she gets angry at him.

 

Lastly, I don't know why but people in WoT have a really bad tendency to ignore the obvious and make incredibly stupid decisions. Trakand's are near the top of this list of course. Instead of using the massive force of Bashere's Saldeans and Bael's Aiel just waiting to be used at her command, she wastes weeks/months(not sure how long) gaining the throne that was supposed to be hers to begin with! It doesn't matter one whit that those forces were the Dragon's, her decision to waste the lives of hundreds, or even thousands of loyal Andorans to fight the idiot nobles was pure stupidity! Her image is in no way worth that many lives. With a fraction of a fraction of those lives lost, the Aiel/Saldeans could have taken the nobles in hand and Elayne would be in power marshalling forces for the LB instead of mired in this power struggle. She could easily convince the nobles that she was not just resting on Rand's powerbase AFTER she gained the throne, or ideally, after the Last Battle or by her very actions during the Last Battle.

 

P.S. Please note that my frustration is purely at this character and not meant to be directed at you yoniy0

[David Selig]

The problem with Elayne is that her very first thought upon seeing the Lion Throne on a pedestal that Rand had left her, knowing that it was purely good-intentioned and meant to remind everyone who's supposed to actually be rulling, her first thought was righteous outrage.

How exactly was she suppose to know that? By that point, she hadn't talked with Rand in months. Besides, Egwene was constantly telling her how arrogant Rand had become and how swollen his head was since he became leader of the Aiel.

 

As for your second point - it was discussed ad nauseum in the thread "Perrin's new station in Andor", let's not drag it here too.

[yoniy0]

P.S. Please note that my frustration is purely at this character and not meant to be directed at you yoniy0

Don't sweat it

It appears to me that you haven't given thought to the political aspects of the situation. In order to marshal forces you first must have willing followers. In Andor (as we were told, even more so than other nations) people are fiercely patriotic. Having someone ascend to the Lion Throne through use of a foreign military force will instigate an insurrection in all levels of the nation.

 

Also, legally speaking, the Daughter Heir still requires the support of 11 Houses to inherit the throne. Usually that's mere formality, but not when she's been absent for months and her mother brought the nation to the brink of ruin (through no fault of her own, true, but they don't know that).

[Ashandarei]

The problem with Elayne is that her very first thought upon seeing the Lion Throne on a pedestal that Rand had left her, knowing that it was purely good-intentioned and meant to remind everyone who's supposed to actually be rulling, her first thought was righteous outrage.

How exactly was she suppose to know that? By that point, she hadn't talked with Rand in months. Besides, Egwene was constantly telling her how arrogant Rand had become and how swollen his head was since he became leader of the Aiel.¹

 

As for your second point - it was discussed ad nauseum in the thread "Perrin's new station in Andor", let's not drag it here too.²

 

¹ If she doesn't even know that Rand has her best interests at heart she has no business being in love with him and even less so having his children.

 

² Ok.

 

P.S. Please note that my frustration is purely at this character and not meant to be directed at you yoniy0

Don't sweat it

It appears to me that you haven't given thought to the political aspects of the situation. In order to marshal forces you first must have willing followers. In Andor (as we were told, even more so than other nations) people are fiercely patriotic. Having someone ascend to the Lion Throne through use of a foreign military force will instigate an insurrection in all levels of the nation.³

 

Also, legally speaking, the Daughter Heir still requires the support of 11 Houses to inherit the throne.⁴ Usually that's mere formality, but not when she's been absent for months and her mother brought the nation to the brink of ruin (through no fault of her own, true, but they don't know that).

 

³ *reluctantly agrees* That would be a definite possibility.

 

⁴ Oh? Didn't realize the DH herself required that support too. Not very monarcy-esque...

[Morsker]

I don't think she'll be Aes Sedai. She's already poking holes in Egwene's authority by trying to give the Kin a special relationship with Andor. And she has the Black Tower in her borders, rules two nations, and is heading an alliance with several more.

 

And wouldn't it be disrespectful to her subjects, to have their leader groveling before the Amyrlyn and calling her Mother? It's sort of the same problem the Borderland monarchs have swearing to Rand; they see it as putting someone else above their nations.

[David Selig]

And wouldn't it be disrespectful to her subjects, to have their leader groveling before the Amyrlyn and calling her Mother?

That's what Randland protocol demands of all rulers in Randland, not just those who are Aes Sedai.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

And wouldn't it be disrespectful to her subjects, to have their leader groveling before the Amyrlyn and calling her Mother?

That's what Randland protocol demands of all rulers in Randland, not just those who are Aes Sedai.

 

 

Don't be ridiculous. This is definitely not the case in Tear, Amadicia, Illian or other such nations.

[David Selig]

Really? Then why it was said that even the Lord captain Commander of the Children of the Light will come if summoned by the Amyrlin Seat?

 

Here's a quote from the books to prove my point:

 

TFOH, Ch. 28

 

“You were the Amyrlin Seat,” he said calmly, “and even a king kisses the Amyrlin’s ring."

That's Gareth Bryne speaking to Siuan. Since he said King, he's obviously speaking not just for Andor, but for monarchs in general.

 

I am not saying the monarchs are supposed to obey the Amyrlin, just that she's considered slightly above them them in therms of protocol and they are expected to make gestures showing it like calling her "Mother" and kissing her ring.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

Really? Then why it was said that even the Lord captain Commander of the Children of the Light will come if summoned by the Amyrlin Seat?

 

Here's a quote from the books to prove my point:

 

TFOH, Ch. 28

 

“You were the Amyrlin Seat,” he said calmly, “and even a king kisses the Amyrlin’s ring."

That's Gareth Bryne speaking to Siuan. Since he said King, he's obviously speaking not just for Andor, but for monarchs in general.

 

I am not saying the monarchs are supposed to obey the Amyrlin, just that she's considered slightly above them them in therms of protocol and they are expected to make gestures showing it like calling her "Mother" and kissing her ring.

 

 

Which Lord Captain Commander did so? I have my doubts and did that hearsay actually come from a credible source inside the White Cloak establishment? Or is it simply a baseless rumor? It doesn't seem to key in to anything of note. Also I have my doubts that the rather arrogant lords of Tear who do not even tolerate Aes Sedai inside their nation would genuflect much, at best possibly send a diplomatic letter to keep up civilized pretenses. Siuan who was Tairen did go speak lengths of how despised channelers were in Tear and how her relatives, father in particular, instead of being proud of her for becoming an Amyrlin were probably more ashamed than anything else.

 

I mean the Tairens are hostile enough against Aes Sedai that merely the presence of one in neighboring Mayene risks probable cause for armed conflict and war.

[David Selig]

IIRC Lan told Rand back in TGH, before his meeting with Siuan Sanche, that the Whitecloack commander would come if Amyrlin summon him - even though he may plan how to kill her the whole way, he would still come. Maybe there are other mentions of this, but that's the one I remember.

 

As for the Tairens, I am not sure about them. Though I recall the mention that even though the Tairens don't like the One Power and Tar Valon, they still had to acknowledge the power of the Amyrlin enough to put her on the cards they used to gamble with as one of the monarchs. Weak evidence, I know, and she was the weakest suit. ;)

 

Darlin took Egwene's summon to come to Merrilor pretty seriously, even though she was basically callling for him to turn against his liege lord Rand.

[Suttree]

Really? Then why it was said that even the Lord captain Commander of the Children of the Light will come if summoned by the Amyrlin Seat?

 

Here's a quote from the books to prove my point:

 

TFOH, Ch. 28

 

“You were the Amyrlin Seat,” he said calmly, “and even a king kisses the Amyrlin’s ring."

That's Gareth Bryne speaking to Siuan. Since he said King, he's obviously speaking not just for Andor, but for monarchs in general.

 

I am not saying the monarchs are supposed to obey the Amyrlin, just that she's considered slightly above them them in therms of protocol and they are expected to make gestures showing it like calling her "Mother" and kissing her ring.

 

 

Which Lord Captain Commander did so? I have my doubts and did that hearsay actually come from a credible source inside the White Cloak establishment? Or is it simply a baseless rumor? It doesn't seem to key in to anything of note. Also I have my doubts that the rather arrogant lords of Tear who do not even tolerate Aes Sedai inside their nation would genuflect much, at best possibly send a diplomatic letter to keep up civilized pretenses. Siuan who was Tairen did go speak lengths of how despised channelers were in Tear and how her relatives, father in particular, instead of being proud of her for becoming an Amyrlin were probably more ashamed than anything else.

 

I mean the Tairens are hostile enough against Aes Sedai that merely the presence of one in neighboring Mayene risks probable cause for armed conflict and war.

 

In TGH Land says to Rand

 

No one refuses an audience with the Amrylin seat, sheephearder. Not the Lord Captain Commander of the Whitecloaks himself. Pedron Niall might spend the whole trip planning how to kill her, if he could do it and get away, but he would come.

 

Lan is worldly enough to be a reliable source on the topic.