Fox Heads and Tuon

[stathman]

Do you guys/gals think that the copy foxhead medallion that Mat plans to give to Tuon will play some role in 'freeing' the damane? We know that when wearing the copied version, one can't channel; I can't help but feel that this will be significant somehow, in regards to the seanchan and the entire sul'dam:damane relationship.

[herid]

Do you guys/gals think that the copy foxhead medallion that Mat plans to give to Tuon will play some role in 'freeing' the damane? We know that when wearing the copied version, one can't channel; I can't help but feel that this will be significant somehow, in regards to the seanchan and the entire sul'dam:damane relationship.

I never thought about it but I consider this unlikely. Mat only wanted to give one to Tuon for protection, not for dealing with damane. How do you envision them playing a major role in sul'dam-damane relationship? Do you have a more concrete idea on how that would come about?

[Calderis]

Because if holding the copy foxhead medallions doesn't allow one to channel, a Sul'dam wouldn't be able to operate a ter'angreal that allows them to control the flows of a damane.

 

I'd never considered this, but the whole idea of sul'dam being on the cusp of channeling, and that medallion going to Tuon could be a very big game changer, if it was shown that an item that kept a Damane from channeling, also kept a Sul'dam from being able to function.

[Muad Cheade]

Because if holding the copy foxhead medallions doesn't allow one to channel, a Sul'dam wouldn't be able to operate a ter'angreal that allows them to control the flows of a damane.

 

I'd never considered this, but the whole idea of sul'dam being on the cusp of channeling, and that medallion going to Tuon could be a very big game changer, if it was shown that an item that kept a Damane from channeling, also kept a Sul'dam from being able to function.

Sul'dam can't channel regardless...You can't cut someone off from something they've never used. The fox-head medallion wouldn't have any affect on a sul'dam apart from protecting her from most weaves.

[Mandro]

I think stathams point, is that though suldams don't channel themselves, they are still in touch with the power through the damane. Rand wasn't channeling regularly, when he entered the steading in TGH (I forget what it's name is) but he sensed a loss entering the steading. Maybe, when mat gives tuon the new ter-angreal she will sense the loss of the power, and realize that even though she uses the excuse of "I chose not to do this evil toy." will be proven false, whenever she removes the terangreal to "exercise" her damane.

 

though it's impossible to know unless the epilogue is gigantic.

[Mandro]

Because if holding the copy foxhead medallions doesn't allow one to channel, a Sul'dam wouldn't be able to operate a ter'angreal that allows them to control the flows of a damane.

 

I'd never considered this, but the whole idea of sul'dam being on the cusp of channeling, and that medallion going to Tuon could be a very big game changer, if it was shown that an item that kept a Damane from channeling, also kept a Sul'dam from being able to function.

Sul'dam can't channel regardless...You can't cut someone off from something they've never used. The fox-head medallion wouldn't have any affect on a sul'dam apart from protecting her from most weaves.

 

"Forced Circles" are what the damane experience when with the suldam. The suldam must access the power to control it.

[Morist]

Because if holding the copy foxhead medallions doesn't allow one to channel, a Sul'dam wouldn't be able to operate a ter'angreal that allows them to control the flows of a damane.

 

I'd never considered this, but the whole idea of sul'dam being on the cusp of channeling, and that medallion going to Tuon could be a very big game changer, if it was shown that an item that kept a Damane from channeling, also kept a Sul'dam from being able to function.

Sul'dam can't channel regardless...You can't cut someone off from something they've never used. The fox-head medallion wouldn't have any affect on a sul'dam apart from protecting her from most weaves.

 

"Forced Circles" are what the damane experience when with the suldam. The suldam must access the power to control it.

 

I guess you mean "involuntary rings" that Moridin refers to. And those are not the A'Dam. Those are the BA forcing channelers into a circle against their will.

[Mandro]

Because if holding the copy foxhead medallions doesn't allow one to channel, a Sul'dam wouldn't be able to operate a ter'angreal that allows them to control the flows of a damane.

 

I'd never considered this, but the whole idea of sul'dam being on the cusp of channeling, and that medallion going to Tuon could be a very big game changer, if it was shown that an item that kept a Damane from channeling, also kept a Sul'dam from being able to function.

Sul'dam can't channel regardless...You can't cut someone off from something they've never used. The fox-head medallion wouldn't have any affect on a sul'dam apart from protecting her from most weaves.

 

"Forced Circles" are what the damane experience when with the suldam. The suldam must access the power to control it.

 

I guess you mean "involuntary rings" that Moridin refers to. And those are not the A'Dam. Those are the BA forcing channelers into a circle against their will.

 

You are correct on the term, thanks, I'm confident he was talking about the the damane and the suldam.

[Entretamis]

how about when the demane are holding the medalion, they can remove the adam or punch the suldomane with out feeling pain. you know basically the adam stops working.

[rcfleming4]

how about when the demane are holding the medalion, they can remove the adam or punch the suldomane with out feeling pain. you know basically the adam stops working.

 

Would that work? The ability to channel is still in the damane, they just can't embrace the Source. The a'dam works whether the damane is channeling or not.

[Mandro]

how about when the demane are holding the medalion, they can remove the adam or punch the suldomane with out feeling pain. you know basically the adam stops working.

 

Would that work? The ability to channel is still in the damane, they just can't embrace the Source. The a'dam works whether the damane is channeling or not.

 

It's in both of them.

[capuga]

how about when the demane are holding the medalion, they can remove the adam or punch the suldomane with out feeling pain. you know basically the adam stops working.

 

That is an interesting thought...

 

Would that work? The ability to channel is still in the damane, they just can't embrace the Source. The a'dam works whether the damane is channeling or not.

 

...and then, this is a good point.

 

I don't know whether this would work or not but it is an interesting thought. You would have to start with giving them to the Aes Sedai, Wise Ones, Windfinders, etc that have been captured from Randland because the Seanchan damane would not try to escape even if they had the opportunity.

[Pygmalion79]

According to TFOH, an a'dam creates something like a circle between sul'dam and damane, and someone who can't channel can't, I think, form a circle. So if a sul'dam holds one of the foxhead copies, then she should lose the ability to control the damane because she can no longer form a circle with her. So I would agree that giving a foxhead to Tuon would interfere with her ability to control damane, but I'm not entirely sure that this would convince her that she could channel. I mean, it's a strange ter'angreal; how is she to say what it might be able to do? If she doesn't want to be convinced, she can always say that one of its powers is to interfere with an a'dam.

[Mandro]

According to TFOH, an a'dam creates something like a circle between sul'dam and damane, and someone who can't channel can't, I think, form a circle. So if a sul'dam holds one of the foxhead copies, then she should lose the ability to control the damane because she can no longer form a circle with her. So I would agree that giving a foxhead to Tuon would interfere with her ability to control damane, but I'm not entirely sure that this would convince her that she could channel. I mean, it's a strange ter'angreal; how is she to say what it might be able to do? If she doesn't want to be convinced, she can always say that one of its powers is to interfere with an a'dam.

 

She knows she can channel, but she refuses to admit that the power is a part of her that she dislikes (likely hates) losing. I think that If she wears the medalion and then removes it, just so she can train her damane, then that proves lie to her "I chose" . . . well, Lie.

[Muad Cheade]

Sul'dam can't channel...The medallion would not keep them from controlling damane as they are not embracing the Source. The damane are.

 

The medallion would not negate the properties of the a'dam either. The a'dam is not contingent on the woman at the "damane end" being able to channel. She must just have the ability to. For example, when we see sul'dam being leashed, they cannot channel but whoever was in the position of control, would still feel the emotions and whatnot. The same goes for a damane wearing an imperfect medallion, as unlikely as that scenario is.

[Mandro]

Sul'dam can't channel...The medallion would not keep them from controlling damane as they are not embracing the Source. The damane are.

 

The medallion would not negate the properties of the a'dam either. The a'dam is not contingent on the woman at the "damane end" being able to channel. She must just have the ability to. For example, when we see sul'dam being leashed, they cannot channel but whoever was in the position of control, would still feel the emotions and whatnot. The same goes for a damane wearing an imperfect medallion, as unlikely as that scenario is.

 

Makes no sense. Siuan could sense, but not control without touching the source when she was attached to moghedian.

 

The ability to USE, and that knowledge is necessary. the forced cicrle's / rings is clearly about the suldam and damane.

 

But again, we won't know, unless there is a HUGE HUGE HUGE epilogue.

 

I have 2 predictions, I say they are true. I'm iffy on a few others.

 

The DO will find an avatar, I think in rand, but who knows. That is one.

 

the three becoming one is about Saidin, Saidar and the TP. That is two.

 

two of my theories, Nynaeve, and Alivia will be the 2 in the circle, rand will split at SG (where the patter allows it, or however it's said) and Alivia will kill evil rand, and good rand will fall, and Nynaeve will save him.

 

And the easy prediction, Talmanes will die.

 

I don't like that last one, but I think it will happen.

[haloun]

the thing is we have never seen a suldam shielded or trying to enter a stedding, and if i recall corectly wearing the flawed foxheads, puts a mini stedding around whoever is using it. only directly around the wearer but that should be enough. from what it sounds like and i understand the adam it creates a link. like an electrical current, you have to have a circuit to make it work. if one half of the hardware in a circuit, say the light switch, is damaged so that it doesnt function properly, the light switch wont work.

[Sharaman]

If Tuon is wearing the foxhead, and she's tested with the A'dam as a potential damane, the test might fail. So the foxhead might help her stay in power if she's challenged and forced to undergo a public testing.