Is Sylvase a Darkfriend?

[capuga]

In KoD (?) Lunnault moves his persuasive secretary services over to Sylvase. In ToM we find out that he is a darkfriend when he tries to help the Black Ajah escape from the dungeons in Caemlyn. But I haven't seen any discussion on what this indicates in regards to Sylvase. I know Luckers used to have a fun theory that Sylvase was Cyndane but I believe that theory was killed by Team Jordan.

 

So what do you guys think? Does Lunnault (sp?) being a darkfriend indicate that his employer Sylvase is one as well?

[randsc]

Sylvase's blank look has always made me believe that she is under the influence of Compulsion.

[moratcorlm]

She may be, but there's nothing conclusive about the evidence so far.

 

It's quite possible Sylvase just took the opportunity during the Battle of Caemlyn to see to it that her rapist grandfather was poisoned (whether she approached Lounalt for the service or he her doesn't really matter), and acquired Lounalt as her secretary because he is an asset that gives her the power to make others afraid, which is probably one of the only powers she respects.

 

The Darkfriend jailbreak was obviously not orchestrated by Lounalt alone, and it's unlikely Sylvase would be high-ranking enough to order him; likely it was coordinated with Black Ajah or Forsaken handlers in the city.

 

Her flat affect is adequately explained by trauma, i.e. Nasin.

[randsc]

Could be, sure. But there seems to me to be as much indication that she is under compulsion as that she is a Darkfriend herself.

 

If she were a Darkfriend, we have no way of knowing how high-ranking she might be. We have seen that adolescents can be in positions of power for the Dark, and that beggers can command lords.

[Agitel]

I'm doing a TOWERS reread, and I needed to find an appropriate topic to say this.

She's not under typical compulsion. She's been 13x13'd. It matches the 'blank' description we later see at the Black Tower.

[Durinax]

I'm doing a TOWERS reread, and I needed to find an appropriate topic to say this.

 

She's not under typical compulsion. She's been 13x13'd. It matches the 'blank' description we later see at the Black Tower.

interesting theory, could you provide comparitive quotes? I do not have books handy

[Agitel]

I'm doing a TOWERS reread, and I needed to find an appropriate topic to say this.

 

She's not under typical compulsion. She's been 13x13'd. It matches the 'blank' description we later see at the Black Tower.

interesting theory, could you provide comparitive quotes? I do not have books handy

 

 

Bah, I'm not at the Black Tower scenes yet. But let me see what I can do.

 

"Of medium build, the blue-eyed girl might have been pretty, save for that expressionless look on her face. Not emotionless, like an Aes Sedai. Completely expressionless. It sometimes seemed like Sylvase was a dressing dummy set up for display."

 

"And [Androl] saw what Norley had seen. Something was deeply wrong, something not-quite-alive inside those eyes. This didn't seem to be a man, but a parody of one. A shadow stuffed inside human skin."

 

We may need more evidence to be conclusive, but I had just finished that Elayne chapter when the thought struck me. Perhaps a little too strongly. People under compulsion don't get that emptyness to them, do they? Not usually. I forget whether or not the boy from tGS whose mind had been so strongly under compulsion that it destroyed his mind acted emotionless, though. But Morgase and many others we've seen aren't so deeply affected.

[Durinax]

I'm doing a TOWERS reread, and I needed to find an appropriate topic to say this.

 

She's not under typical compulsion. She's been 13x13'd. It matches the 'blank' description we later see at the Black Tower.

interesting theory, could you provide comparitive quotes? I do not have books handy

 

 

Bah, I'm not at the Black Tower scenes yet. But let me see what I can do.

 

"Of medium build, the blue-eyed girl might have been pretty, save for that expressionless look on her face. Not emotionless, like an Aes Sedai. Completely expressionless. It sometimes seemed like Sylvase was a dressing dummy set up for display."

 

"And [Androl] saw what Norley had seen. Something was deeply wrong, something not-quite-alive inside those eyes. This didn't seem to be a man, but a parody of one. A shadow stuffed inside human skin."

 

We may need more evidence to be conclusive, but I had just finished that Elayne chapter when the thought struck me. Perhaps a little too strongly. People under compulsion don't get that emptyness to them, do they? Not usually. I forget whether or not the boy from tGS whose mind had been so strongly under compulsion that it destroyed his mind acted emotionless, though. But Morgase and many others we've seen aren't so deeply affected.

for compulsion I imagine it depends on degree.

 

but I recall that sylvase gets a very sharp look in her eyes a few times, so I think it may just be an act in order to get better position. The Great Game

[Selene's Shadow]

I'm doing a TOWERS reread, and I needed to find an appropriate topic to say this.

 

She's not under typical compulsion. She's been 13x13'd. It matches the 'blank' description we later see at the Black Tower.

Only channelers can be 13x13'd.

[bigdoug1971]

I think too many people credit things to "13x13". I thought only channelers were turned this way, and why would they take the time to turn a young girl from a House that has virtually no chance of becoming a ruler?

 

 

 

 

She may be a darkfriend. She may be an evil simpleton too. Or she may have been compelled. Having the darkfriend assistant that helped free the Black Ajah from Andor's dungeon could point toward her being a darkfriend. But if he had much influence over her growing up, she could just be a twisted, evil little lady that tortures puppies and kitty cats for fun!

[Agitel]

I'm doing a TOWERS reread, and I needed to find an appropriate topic to say this.

 

She's not under typical compulsion. She's been 13x13'd. It matches the 'blank' description we later see at the Black Tower.

Only channelers can be 13x13'd.

 

This is true. Good point.

 

I guess Sylvase is just a sociopath.

[Whizbang]

I've always had a problem envisioning an "expressionless face". RJ, and many other authors, use this to describe an inscrutable face, meaning difficult/impossible to read. But, I just can't envision it. What is the difference between being expressionless and just not feeling anything particularly strong at the moment (i.e. passive)? Something happens, you emote. Nothing much is going on, you don't emote. Sure, most of these "expressionless" faces are in situations where at least some sort of emotion should be felt/shown, but the people are not "expressionless", they are just emoting the passive expression.

 

And what is the difference between "expressionless" face of AS and "blank" expression of Sylvase? Intelligence? So, does Sylvase just not focus on anything? Is it more of a body language thing? "Expressionless" at least has some life in the body, whereas "blank" is just a sack of flesh?

 

Sometimes I just feel like the whole "wondows to the soul" thing is all a bunch of writerly fluff.

[Agitel]

I've always had a problem envisioning an "expressionless face". RJ, and many other authors, use this to describe an inscrutable face, meaning difficult/impossible to read. But, I just can't envision it. What is the difference between being expressionless and just not feeling anything particularly strong at the moment (i.e. passive)? Something happens, you emote. Nothing much is going on, you don't emote. Sure, most of these "expressionless" faces are in situations where at least some sort of emotion should be felt/shown, but the people are not "expressionless", they are just emoting the passive expression.

 

And what is the difference between "expressionless" face of AS and "blank" expression of Sylvase? Intelligence? So, does Sylvase just not focus on anything? Is it more of a body language thing? "Expressionless" at least has some life in the body, whereas "blank" is just a sack of flesh?

 

Sometimes I just feel like the whole "wondows to the soul" thing is all a bunch of writerly fluff.

 

I imagine most Aes Sedai have a permanent look of disapproval on their faces. Heh. Aes Sedai faces are serene, calm, poised, often icy, and typically give the impression that they know things you don't.

 

I think Sylvase's face is just unreadable. I don't mean that she gives off a serene exterior with hidden, but unknown, inner emotions -- you don't even get the serene feeling. I don't think it's a lack of focus, but it's as if every muscle on the face is relaxed and loose (not limp, mind). I imagine when she turns to look at you it's like something out of a horror movie where she moves slowly and... er... monotonously, if you can describe motion in that way. A bit robotic, lacking life, if you will.

[Maleshub]

Sylvase could be one of Demandred's or Moridin's proxies in Caemlyn. She was the one who infiltrated Elayne's regime, or facilitated the infiltration of the regime, with the DF questioner who ended up freeing the BA and Hanlon. And since Moridin's crew were the ones active in that plot, he might be the one behind "compelling" her.