Why was the Caemlyn waygate unguarded?

[ltmundida]

I am almost certain this has been posted elsewhere.Apologies everyone if I am repeating.

The waygate that is being used for the invasion of Caemlyn is (I think) the same one used by Rand and co in tEotW. If the good guys knew that there was a waygate, why ddnt they close it. It makes no sense that Rand ran around dealling with waygates but left the one in Caemlyn wide open.

[Dashwood]

I Believe, Good Fellow, this second sinister waygate was one as of yet unbeknowst to the "Good Guys".

 

Rather.

[Terez]

He had it guarded. Verin mentioned that in her letter. Apparently the guard was insufficient. Not surprising, since Rand just set the guard on it and took off. Strange, seeing as how he's so protective of Elayne. He could have at least warded it like the one in Shadar Logoth.

 

And actually, he might have. Presumably no one would know if he had, including Talmanes and Olver, since the ward was designed to let all the Shadowspawn through before they started dropping dead. But supposedly Rand only warded the one in Shadar Logoth because he could not send men to guard it.

[David Selig]

Rand told Loial in KoD:

 

KoD, Ch. 20

 

Loial, I’ve sealed the Waygates I know, in Caemlyn and Cairhien, Illian and Tear

 

The question is what exactly he meant by "sealed". My guess is that he did what Loial did to the Manetheren gate when he went with Gaul to close it for a second time - removed the two Avendesora leaves. But this leaves the possibility of a channeller simply cutting through it to create an opening, as Loial noted.

 

TSR, CH. 43

 

The Waygate. Yes. I cannot destroy it, but if I remove both Avendesora leaves completely, they will die.” He grimaced at the thought. “The only means of opening the Gate again will be for the Elders to bring the Talisman of Growing. Though I suppose an Aes Sedai could cut a hole in it.”

 

My guess is one of the new Dreadlords who are with the Trolloc army simply cut through the closed Waygate in Caemlyn.

[Terez]

I think by 'sealed' he meant 'guarded'. Every other time he mentions it, he says he put guards on it.

[David Selig]

That's quite likely too, of course. But IIRC the last time Rand thought he had the Caemlyn Waygate guarded was way back in LoC and he may have changed the plan since then.

[Lacanos]

It's possible he warded it and that they simply unwove the wards, someone like Demandred or Moridin might be capable of such?

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

Because Caemlyn is doomed to fall and be wiped off the face of the earth as the first strike of the DO. This later forces Elayne to move her house to Cairhien and absolves any future complications about the capital of a Andor-Cairhien nation.

[Sharaman]

Either "sealed" by removing both leaves, or guarded by soldiers would be insufficient to stop a full on invasion. We saw Moiraine cut through a Waygate - any strong channeler could. Guarded by soldiers would at best, lead to an alarm being raised - Elayne certainly doesn't have an entire army sitting outside the Gate that's strong enough to repel thousands of trollocs. The guards would be quickly swamped by trollocs.

Warded ala Shadar Logoth maybe workable but we know Rand didn't do that. In any case, he could ward against either SS or humans but not both.

[KateGonda]

Now this is just surmise, but we know that there were at least 7 Black Ajah in Caemlyn for a while. One at the palace who was free enough to be killing the Kin, the 2 held by Shiane (sp?), and the 4 others who showed up and helped kidnap Elayne. Doesn't it seem like one of them could have done as Moirane did in TEOTW, and blast open the Waygate with the one power? Anyway, that's what I figured had happened when I read it. With those creeps, Lunnalt & Hannlyn (sp?) watching over it as the Shadowspawn came out. It seems Like those two would want to be in on getting back at Elayne.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Now this is just surmise, but we know that there were at least 7 Black Ajah in Caemlyn for a while. One at the palace who was free enough to be killing the Kin, the 2 held by Shiane (sp?), and the 4 others who showed up and helped kidnap Elayne. Doesn't it seem like one of them could have done as Moirane did in TEOTW, and blast open the Waygate with the one power? Anyway, that's what I figured had happened when I read it. With those creeps, Lunnalt & Hannlyn (sp?) watching over it as the Shadowspawn came out. It seems Like those two would want to be in on getting back at Elayne.

With the Black Tower so close and they having the ability to channel undetected by female channelars and they can travel, why wouldn't the shadow use one of these guys. They are stronger than the 7 women unless they were all linked. And it leaves the surprise element intact so just in case Rand had left guards, the guards deaths wouldn't be noticed not would the guards see a hole in the waygate. For all we know Tiam or Demandred is behind the invasion.

[yoniy0]

The question is - can we trust Verin to know that the 'guard' (physical or metaphorical) Rand put on the Waygate is insufficient? Or could Rand have guarded it more thoroughly than she knew?

Because if he did, as Terez suggests, then the whole lot of those trollocs might drop dead after several minutes (which wouldn't stop them from laying waste to large parts of the city in the meanwhile). If Verin was right, though, well then the whole of Andor's might could be undone in this raid

[Byzantine279]

It had a ward on it, no one expected it to need guarding.

 

or at least that is what i thought he did, otherwise it probably had a couple guards they simply killed, or who were darkfriends themselves.

[MattTaz]

I think the Waygate was in a basement from memory. Does anyone know where it is?

 

I'm presuming the Trolloc army is 100,000+ like the others we have seen, so that would take all day for all of them

to come through.

 

If Talmanes has caught the start of the battle he has half the Band with him - 12,000? I think he has the numbers to drive them back.

Plus how many Kin were left in Caemlyn - it doesnt say who Elayne took with her.

She must have left Dyelin and the Kin in charge as she had the warning about Caemlyn being invaded. I doubt she left it defenceless.

Mat reckons the inner city is impregnable, but the outer is stuffed basically :)

 

Would like to see the damane in action, if they link with the Kin, lookout :)

 

The Epilogue gives time for someone to come to Talmanes's aid.

I think someone mentioned that Mat was being picked up at noon by Grady and the battle began at dusk???

[akira.taylor]

The question is - can we trust Verin to know that the 'guard' (physical or metaphorical) Rand put on the Waygate is insufficient? Or could Rand have guarded it more thoroughly than she knew?

Because if he did, as Terez suggests, then the whole lot of those trollocs might drop dead after several minutes (which wouldn't stop them from laying waste to large parts of the city in the meanwhile). If Verin was right, though, well then the whole of Andor's might could be undone in this raid

 

More than several minutes - Rand set it up so that the whole group of shadowspawn would get through, and then die somewhere not too close to the Waygate (so that there wouldn't be a big pile of shadowspawn at the Waygate, warning later groups that it might not be very wise to go through).

[Terez]

'Several minutes' works. Rand said they 'might' make it outside the city.