Is it a requirement that everyone who uses the power is selfish and stupid?

[Mandro]

I'm going through some of the books again, I can't find my earlier books right now, but I'll dig them up before AMOL comes out, but I just got done with the part where egwene gets captured turning the gate chains into cuendillar.

 

Never once did it run through her head, "Hey, you know, if only there was some way that I could increase my ability to channel across the river, that I can see across, to change the chains, that I can see, into cuendillar, but that's just crazy talk, It's not like I can exponentially increase the amount of the power enough to do what I want to do from relative safety!" *casts glance over hundreds of aes sedai* "Eh, eff it, I'll go take a risk and maybe get caught but it's the only logical choice." *cast glance over hundreds of aes sedai.

 

Never once thinking of linking. Does that sound out right stupid to anyone else?

[Mats Spare Hat]

I'm going through some of the books again, I can't find my earlier books right now, but I'll dig them up before AMOL comes out, but I just got done with the part where egwene gets captured turning the gate chains into cuendillar.

 

Never once did it run through her head, "Hey, you know, if only there was some way that I could increase my ability to channel across the river, that I can see across, to change the chains, that I can see, into cuendillar, but that's just crazy talk, It's not like I can exponentially increase the amount of the power enough to do what I want to do from relative safety!" *casts glance over hundreds of aes sedai* "Eh, eff it, I'll go take a risk and maybe get caught but it's the only logical choice." *cast glance over hundreds of aes sedai.

 

Never once thinking of linking. Does that sound out right stupid to anyone else?

 

If we knew that linking gives that greater range for cuendillar creation then yeah, kinda dumb. But if you still need that close range interaction despite, than it's moot issue. Anyone have an answer for that?

 

 

I think when Egwene took whats her face's place it was an example of her not willing to order someone to do something of great personal risk, while knowing full well she could do it better/faster. I also look at as Egwene knowing she has to affect change internally at the WT if they were going to reach an outcome that avoids prolonged siege/crazy bloodshed.

 

That being said, she knows Bryne has her back 100%, along with Siuan. She's a dreamer so she doesn't have to worry about not being able to communicate with them, or anyone else. And, when she gets captured she gets away from the Romanda & Lelaine bullcrap, and sidesteps the Halima effect too. Aside from the physical toll and forkroot dosing, being in the tower's nothing she hadn't already gone through - and at this point she's even equipped with an incredibly greater skill set through experience to deal with those hardships.

 

ANYWAY, in this case, I don't view Egwene as being stupid. You could argue selfish, but that's not always a bad trait, especially when it's evidenced one holds distinct proven advantages over another.

[Mandro]

 

If we knew that linking gives that greater range for cuendillar creation then yeah, kinda dumb. But if you still need that close range interaction despite, than it's moot issue. Anyone have an answer for that?

 

 

I think when Egwene took whats her face's place it was an example of her not willing to order someone to do something of great personal risk, while knowing full well she could do it better/faster. I also look at as Egwene knowing she has to affect change internally at the WT if they were going to reach an outcome that avoids prolonged siege/crazy bloodshed.

 

That being said, she knows Bryne has her back 100%, along with Siuan. She's a dreamer so she doesn't have to worry about not being able to communicate with them, or anyone else. And, when she gets captured she gets away from the Romanda & Lelaine bullcrap, and sidesteps the Halima effect too. Aside from the physical toll and forkroot dosing, being in the tower's nothing she hadn't already gone through - and at this point she's even equipped with an incredibly greater skill set through experience to deal with those hardships.

 

ANYWAY, in this case, I don't view Egwene as being stupid. You could argue selfish, but that's not always a bad trait, especially when it's evidenced one holds distinct proven advantages over another.

 

The What's herface was bode cauthon after the murder of the next best cuendillar maker.

 

I SORTA get Egwene's thing, she was likely thinking, "this must be done now, before more die (and before my friends sister gets killed)" but it's still stupid not to test it. Even though contact makes it easier to heal for nynaeve, it's insinuated that it's not necessary, I don't see why making cuendillar should be different, I'm really just saying, "why don't you effing try it?" Especially after having accepted AS AM bonding thing. There should be linking ninja's, but you see people terrified of linking at almost every turn.

[Mr Hindley]

Never once did it run through her head, "Hey, you know, if only there was some way that I could increase my ability to channel across the river, that I can see across, to change the chains, that I can see, into cuendillar, but that's just crazy talk, It's not like I can exponentially increase the amount of the power enough to do what I want to do from relative safety!" *casts glance over hundreds of aes sedai* "Eh, eff it, I'll go take a risk and maybe get caught but it's the only logical choice." *cast glance over hundreds of aes sedai.

 

Made me laugh - cheers!

[Mr Ares]

The ability to make cuendillar is dependent on Talent, not strength. Linking would increase the strength Egwene had available, not the Talent, so it's debateable whether it would have made any difference. Besides, the time to try it to find out would be before that night.

[wvlr2]

Well, she was too stupid to mask herself/to invert her weaves/to prepare her weaves. So why should she be smart enough to link up so that she would have greater power & be harder to shield and more powerful to protect herself.

 

 

just so I make it clear - she is only one of the many characters that seem to do really dumb things sometimes.

[akira.taylor]

Well, she was too stupid to mask herself/to invert her weaves/to prepare her weaves. So why should she be smart enough to link up so that she would have greater power & be harder to shield and more powerful to protect herself.

 

 

just so I make it clear - she is only one of the many characters that seem to do really dumb things sometimes.

 

In her defense (although I agree that the siege was performed in a sub-par manner, at least as far as we hear), I sure didn't think about masking herself/inverting the weaves in advance. Now, I don't always think of such things, even when they're obvious, but still. No one was going to hurt me for making mistakes, so I should have been calmer about it. I guess it comes down to people, especially under stress, make mistakes. Sometimes people get killed for it.

[Mulk]

wvlr2: I would say that like everyone in just about any book or in real life, she does dumb things from time to time. :)

 

I'm not an Egwene apologist myself, but the desire or need to commit localized acts of stupidity is a generalized trait among all humans. Pretty much every major character in this book, and everyone I know to any real degree in life, has done at least a few stupid things. :D

[chinnma]

I think her decision to get in close instead of linking and cuendilaring(?) from afar was one of stealth vs force. Asuming it is possible to remotely make cuendilar by linking, do we have any evidence that linked weaves can be inverted? Basicly, I think the group had a better shot of getting something useful done by sneaking in rather than risk early discovery by using more of the Power.

[David Selig]

Asuming it is possible to remotely make cuendilar by linking, do we have any evidence that linked weaves can be inverted?

 

Yes, we do.

 

KoD, Ch. 31

 

Elayne reached through her as if she were an angreal, and the glow of saidar surrounded the other woman as the link was completed. In truth, it surrounded both of them, but she could only see the part around Sareitha — until she wove Spirit around her. Then the glow vanished. She placed the same weave on herself and prepared four shields and several other weaves, all inverted.

 

I am not sure that being linked would've helped with cuendillar making though, otherwise the Aes Sedai would've been even more stupid than usual since they didn't use it in making the cuendillar objects they wanted to sell and the whole thing took forever as a result.

[GregDietzFla]

As for the siege, why didn't Egwene ask if any of the others knew where the angreal room was, travel in, take all of the angreal and sa'angreal. Then link, and take over the the city by just shielding everyone. Nobody gets hurt, doesnt have to use the army

[Mandro]

As for the siege, why didn't Egwene ask if any of the others knew where the angreal room was, travel in, take all of the angreal and sa'angreal. Then link, and take over the the city by just shielding everyone. Nobody gets hurt, doesnt have to use the army

 

That's one of the big problems with relatively unrestricted magic in fantasy books. Opens the door to too many options.

[Mats Spare Hat]

As for the siege, why didn't Egwene ask if any of the others knew where the angreal room was, travel in, take all of the angreal and sa'angreal. Then link, and take over the the city by just shielding everyone. Nobody gets hurt, doesnt have to use the army

 

That's one of the big problems with relatively unrestricted magic in fantasy books. Opens the door to too many options.

 

Yeeaaahh, even if you did take over the city by such means, it wouldn't do you any favors in the reconciliation department. No matter how you spin it you'd look like a thieving rebel force bent on taking over, with no regard for those on the other side beyond something like "Well, we didn't kill them so they should be happy about that"

 

Whether or not Egwene knew about & planned on getting captured, by being on the inside & winning the allegiance of those tower AS, a better outcome came about...Sort of nobody won or lost by force, but by deed & force of will both sides decided to reunite and follow Egwene.

 

I know it could sound trivial but nobody likes being conquered, even if it's a bloodless coup.

 

Sort of a follow me because I'm better, not because I beat you, if that makes sense.

[Lynander]

I've always seen this cuendillar thing from a different perspective. What if she actually succeeded? At least this is the way I always looked at it. All other events going on in the world aside....

So the plan works. They siege the tower from the water using the cuendillar and surround it by land. Eventually they starve out everybody in the tower and they give up. Now Egwene has the exact same problem when she takes over the white tower: how to feed the population. Cuendillar (very hard to break apart) is blocking all water traffic (it's an island, main way it gets food, etc) in and out of the White Tower. Now I realize they can travel, etc...but it just makes everything harder and adds to growing responsibilities.

 

Egwene not completing this task and getting caught are blessings in disguise from my perspecitive