Androl's gateways

[MichaelOfTheWhite]

Perhaps someone here can explain how Androl, a very weak channeler, can weave gateways? The gateway weave itself requires a certain amount of power to produce.

 

Taim and Logain had differences of opinion about this 'talent' of his.

 

Discuss.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Perhaps someone here can explain how Androl, a very weak channeler, can weave gateways? The gateway weave itself requires a certain amount of power to produce.

 

Taim and Logain had differences of opinion about this 'talent' of his.

 

Discuss.

 

To me it seems straight forward.

 

Androl has a Talent for making Gateways, thats why he doesnt need much power. Remember the Kinswoman that could hold a shield (in Ebou Dar) by making it kinda strechy? So even though Nynaeve was way stronger and should have been able to break the shield. Her Talent allows her to hold a shield. Androl is the same. He is piss weak, but can create gateways. Just a random Talent.

 

Taim doesnt like it because Androl is one of Logain's followers. he is a petty bastard, Taim. You will notice that even the strongest Asha'man will not be given the Dragon pin because they are loyal to Logain. Taim only lets his cronies have the Dragon pin.

 

Logain thinks he deserves to be Dedicated because of his Talent. Which is quite impressive. It allows him to weave gateways when by all means he should not. Also, its most likely to get one up on Taim.

[MichaelOfTheWhite]

It's possible that he'll be able to weave a gateway through the effects of a dreamspike in future, because he seemed almost able to at the BT.

[Barid Bel Medar]

It's possible that he'll be able to weave a gateway through the effects of a dreamspike in future, because he seemed almost able to at the BT.

 

Yes. I believe that is the whole reason he was introduced into the story.

[Incom]

Slightly offtopic, but when the one guy asked Androl to blow up a boulder, why didn't he try to cleave it in pieces with the sharp edge of a gateway? IDK if he was unable to travel at the time (as he used gateways to cut up some leather earlier) but if so he'd have at least found out right there.

 

Androl might be my new favorite minor character.

[herid]

It's possible that he'll be able to weave a gateway through the effects of a dreamspike in future, because he seemed almost able to at the BT.

That's what I thought too. Perhaps not by himself but in a circle when he links with Pevara (and maybe some others)? One indication that something like this might work is the fact that Elayne's copies of Mat's foxhead medallion don't work on strong weaves. That would seem to indicate that ter'angreals of that sort are not absolute and can be blasted through by sufficiently powerful weaves.

[Grim]

Slightly offtopic, but when the one guy asked Androl to blow up a boulder, why didn't he try to cleave it in pieces with the sharp edge of a gateway? IDK if he was unable to travel at the time (as he used gateways to cut up some leather earlier) but if so he'd have at least found out right there.

 

probably because it was training. if you are a good knife fighter but a piss poor shot, if your drill sarg tells you to shoot the target you shoot at the target not run up and stab it. thats just the nature of military training. and lets face it the black tower is just a boot camp for male channelers.

[Finnssss22]

Slightly offtopic, but when the one guy asked Androl to blow up a boulder, why didn't he try to cleave it in pieces with the sharp edge of a gateway? IDK if he was unable to travel at the time (as he used gateways to cut up some leather earlier) but if so he'd have at least found out right there.

 

Androl might be my new favorite minor character.

 

More likely the Dreamspike had not been activated yet. In fact it seems it was only activated shortly before we find out about it.

You have to remember that Nyneave was able to travel to the AS tents just outside the Black Tower to get Lan's bond passed to her.

The real question here is why is the "rebel" AS camp still outside and still considered such when the White Tower has quite obviously been unified for some time now.

-WT was unified at least a few days before they witness Rand's "rebirth" atop Dragonmount, prolly closer to a week imo but it could be as little as 2 days I guess

-Rand shows up at the WT at least a day or so after

-Nyneave has her conversation with Egwene at least a day after this and then leaves for the WT later that day after cleaning up the bubble of evil mess

 

So from the time the Tower is reunited till Nyneave receives Lan's bond is at minimum 4 days and more likely it's closer to a week or more.

Either way, it's been plenty of time to let both the "Rebel" sisters and "Eladia's" sisters know of it.

Also, just from the way Nyneave lets Myrelle know that she has been raised properly and Myrelle accepts this so easily, it would seem they do indeed know of events at the tower.

So, again, why by the time the Dreamspike is active do the sisters within the Black Tower still consider themselves separate?

[moratcorlm]

I doubt they'd have been getting much mail. Keep in mind that this was a top-secret mission for the Red Ajah, not under the aegis of the Amyrlin Seat. If Taim tells the rebel delegation to stay out, how are they going to get news?

[Morsker]

Keep in mind that although Androl is weak, he's weakest of all with Earth, so he he might not be quite so terrible at everything else as he was at destroying the boulder. It's something of an extreme contrast, the boulder being what he's absolutely the worst at, and Gateways the best.

[TheAngryDruid]

Slightly offtopic, but when the one guy asked Androl to blow up a boulder, why didn't he try to cleave it in pieces with the sharp edge of a gateway? IDK if he was unable to travel at the time (as he used gateways to cut up some leather earlier) but if so he'd have at least found out right there.

 

Androl might be my new favorite minor character.

 

More likely the Dreamspike had not been activated yet. In fact it seems it was only activated shortly before we find out about it.

You have to remember that Nyneave was able to travel to the AS tents just outside the Black Tower to get Lan's bond passed to her.

The real question here is why is the "rebel" AS camp still outside and still considered such when the White Tower has quite obviously been unified for some time now.

-WT was unified at least a few days before they witness Rand's "rebirth" atop Dragonmount, prolly closer to a week imo but it could be as little as 2 days I guess

-Rand shows up at the WT at least a day or so after

-Nyneave has her conversation with Egwene at least a day after this and then leaves for the WT later that day after cleaning up the bubble of evil mess

 

So from the time the Tower is reunited till Nyneave receives Lan's bond is at minimum 4 days and more likely it's closer to a week or more.

Either way, it's been plenty of time to let both the "Rebel" sisters and "Eladia's" sisters know of it.

Also, just from the way Nyneave lets Myrelle know that she has been raised properly and Myrelle accepts this so easily, it would seem they do indeed know of events at the tower.

So, again, why by the time the Dreamspike is active do the sisters within the Black Tower still consider themselves separate?

 

All good points. For me, the series has been plagued by increasingly improbable actions/inactions, lack of communications, etc. for some time now (since in WH Elayne somehow forgot female channelers could link).

 

I guess to defend the book, the Rebel sisters undoubtedly do know, but the loyalists do not, as they were: 1) instructed by Elaida not to risk revealing Gateways unless it was an emergency; and 2) Likely significantly behind in the timeline. At least a couple days. We've seen no sign of Naeff.

 

Also, one should note that the dreamspike at the BT may not be affecting the Palace. Elayne was able to Travel freely to Cairhien, and Mat from Caemlyn to Whitebridge/ToG, and Galad/Morgase from Whitebridge to Caemlyn, etc. All up until about 1-2 days before the big meeting.

 

Gawyn's Gateway was cut off because of Perrin, not Taim.

[Finnssss22]

Slightly offtopic, but when the one guy asked Androl to blow up a boulder, why didn't he try to cleave it in pieces with the sharp edge of a gateway? IDK if he was unable to travel at the time (as he used gateways to cut up some leather earlier) but if so he'd have at least found out right there.

 

Androl might be my new favorite minor character.

 

More likely the Dreamspike had not been activated yet. In fact it seems it was only activated shortly before we find out about it.

You have to remember that Nyneave was able to travel to the AS tents just outside the Black Tower to get Lan's bond passed to her.

The real question here is why is the "rebel" AS camp still outside and still considered such when the White Tower has quite obviously been unified for some time now.

-WT was unified at least a few days before they witness Rand's "rebirth" atop Dragonmount, prolly closer to a week imo but it could be as little as 2 days I guess

-Rand shows up at the WT at least a day or so after

-Nyneave has her conversation with Egwene at least a day after this and then leaves for the WT later that day after cleaning up the bubble of evil mess

 

So from the time the Tower is reunited till Nyneave receives Lan's bond is at minimum 4 days and more likely it's closer to a week or more.

Either way, it's been plenty of time to let both the "Rebel" sisters and "Eladia's" sisters know of it.

Also, just from the way Nyneave lets Myrelle know that she has been raised properly and Myrelle accepts this so easily, it would seem they do indeed know of events at the tower.

So, again, why by the time the Dreamspike is active do the sisters within the Black Tower still consider themselves separate?

 

All good points. For me, the series has been plagued by increasingly improbable actions/inactions, lack of communications, etc. for some time now (since in WH Elayne somehow forgot female channelers could link).

 

I guess to defend the book, the Rebel sisters undoubtedly do know, but the loyalists do not, as they were: 1) instructed by Elaida not to risk revealing Gateways unless it was an emergency; and 2) Likely significantly behind in the timeline. At least a couple days. We've seen no sign of Naeff.

 

Also, one should note that the dreamspike at the BT may not be affecting the Palace. Elayne was able to Travel freely to Cairhien, and Mat from Caemlyn to Whitebridge/ToG, and Galad/Morgase from Whitebridge to Caemlyn, etc. All up until about 1-2 days before the big meeting.

 

Gawyn's Gateway was cut off because of Perrin, not Taim.

 

Yeah it's definitely not affecting the palace. Even with the one around Perrin's camp, they were still able to ride out of it's range in a fairly short period of time and Caemlyn is further from the Black Tower than just a few hours ride.

 

Yeah, the point about Taim limiting interaction between the "Loyalists" and the "Rebels" makes the most sense for sure.

 

I'm not really bashing on the books, I actually do enjoy BS's writing for the most part in that it's a little more compact than RJ's, with the exception of BS using he said, she said far too much.

But yeah the time lines were pretty hard to follow sometimes, they could of been ordered better with no as much jumping back and forth imo.

[dscott8]

Could Androl have a "block" like the Aes Sedai (name?) who could only weave in front of women? He's been a traveler (lower case) so maybe his block only lets him channel well on things related to Traveling (upper case). It would be cool for him to get unblocked in time to participate in cleansing the Black Tower.

[teutonic]

Could Androl have a "block" like the Aes Sedai (name?) who could only weave in front of women? He's been a traveler (lower case) so maybe his block only lets him channel well on things related to Traveling (upper case). It would be cool for him to get unblocked in time to participate in cleansing the Black Tower.

 

Yes and no. :) You made me curious, so I dug out my copy of ToM and had a look.

 

We meet him in chapter 46, as he's making a leather armguard. Within the first couple of pages we find out that he did have a block:

 

Androl emptied himself of emotion, then seized the Source. It had been months since he'd had trouble doing that—at first, he'd been able to channel only when he was holding a strap of leather. The M'Hael had beaten that out of him. It had not been a pleasant process.

 

But the wording makes it clear that he had a block - past tense. He's over it now.

 

As the chapter moves on to his interactions with the other Asha'man, there are a few mentions of his strength in the Power:

 

What would it be like to draw in as much of the One Powet as the others could? At times, he thirsted for that. He knew he was weak—weakest of the Dedicated in the Black Tower. Perhaps so weak he should never have been promoted from soldier.

 

Androl wove the requisite weave of Fire and Earth, striking at the large stone. The thin weave held almost all of the Power he could manage, but it only flaked a few chips off the large stone

.

 

Then, when the group of Asha'man loyal to Logain start to discuss the situation in the Black Tower and decide that they need to find a way to prove Taim is up to no good and bring that proof to Rand, this happens:

 

The group turned to Androl. Why did they look to him, the weakest of them? All he could do was create gateways. That was where Coteren's nickname for Androl had come from. Pageboy. The only thing he was good for was delivering messages, taking people places.

 

So it's pretty clear that he is very weak in the Power. If soldiers are the equivalent of novices and the Dedicated are the equivalent of the Accepted, then Androl is about on par with a woman channeler who might just have made Accepted by the skin of her teeth but would probably never have made it to Aes Sedai.

 

I do like him, though. He's like everybody's favorite uncle. :)

[MichaelOfTheWhite]

Could Androl have a "block" like the Aes Sedai (name?) who could only weave in front of women? He's been a traveler (lower case) so maybe his block only lets him channel well on things related to Traveling (upper case). It would be cool for him to get unblocked in time to participate in cleansing the Black Tower.

I shouldn't think so. He's described as being weak by other male channelers. His Travelling talent (if that's what it is) seems to allow him to produce a weave which requires greater strength in order to weave, though he can create only small ones.

Is it a pun that he's well-travelled, do you think?

 

It's as if his very 'power level' is bumped up slightly when channeling a gatway. Very odd. In other words, I doubt he uses less power than others would to produce a tiny gateway, therefore he must weave them more efficiently somehow.

 

Perhaps he has some sort of innate sense of seeing 'through' the pattern that helps him create gateways.

[wvlr2]

Could Androl have a "block" like the Aes Sedai (name?) who could only weave in front of women? He's been a traveler (lower case) so maybe his block only lets him channel well on things related to Traveling (upper case). It would be cool for him to get unblocked in time to participate in cleansing the Black Tower.

I shouldn't think so. He's described as being weak by other male channelers. His Travelling talent (if that's what it is) seems to allow him to produce a weave which requires greater strength in order to weave, though he can create only small ones.

Is it a pun that he's well-travelled, do you think?

 

It's as if his very 'power level' is bumped up slightly when channeling a gatway. Very odd. In other words, I doubt he uses less power than others would to produce a tiny gateway, therefore he must weave them more efficiently somehow.

 

Perhaps he has some sort of innate sense of seeing 'through' the pattern that helps him create gateways.

 

No, he makes Large Gateways. Big enough for wagons instead of just one man or cart gateways.

 

In my view there are two most likely options.

 

1. The talent option.

 

or

 

2. Since they "make sense" to him, he understands them so well, he is able to use the One Power much more effeciently and thus create more than he normally could.

 

 

 

The only thing that I do not understand is why he has not come to realize that Gateways can be used as a powerful weapon.

Like someone said above, he could have chopped the boulder up into pieces with assorted gateways. Not to mention I can't wait until he learns Deathgates.

[MichaelOfTheWhite]

I didn't realise he could make large ones; thanks.

 

Traditionally, gateways get bigger the more power you push into them. Is it now conceivable that if you had a talent with balefire you could blast a large wagon away whilst barely able to light a candle with fire?

[wvlr2]

Traditionally, gateways get bigger the more power you push into them. Is it now conceivable that if you had a talent with balefire you could blast a large wagon away whilst barely able to light a candle with fire?

Yes, we have seen some really unique Tallents. Like that really weak Kin woman that was able to shield Ny - that one was kind of funny. Ny was having a fit.

[AvroChris]

Could Androl have a "block" like the Aes Sedai (name?) who could only weave in front of women? He's been a traveler (lower case) so maybe his block only lets him channel well on things related to Traveling (upper case). It would be cool for him to get unblocked in time to participate in cleansing the Black Tower.

I shouldn't think so. He's described as being weak by other male channelers. His Travelling talent (if that's what it is) seems to allow him to produce a weave which requires greater strength in order to weave, though he can create only small ones.

Is it a pun that he's well-travelled, do you think?

 

It's as if his very 'power level' is bumped up slightly when channeling a gatway. Very odd. In other words, I doubt he uses less power than others would to produce a tiny gateway, therefore he must weave them more efficiently somehow.

 

Perhaps he has some sort of innate sense of seeing 'through' the pattern that helps him create gateways.

 

No, he makes Large Gateways. Big enough for wagons instead of just one man or cart gateways.

 

In my view there are two most likely options.

 

1. The talent option.

 

or

 

2. Since they "make sense" to him, he understands them so well, he is able to use the One Power much more effeciently and thus create more than he normally could.

 

 

 

The only thing that I do not understand is why he has not come to realize that Gateways can be used as a powerful weapon.

Like someone said above, he could have chopped the boulder up into pieces with assorted gateways. Not to mention I can't wait until he learns Deathgates.

 

It seems likely he'll be really good at Deathgates, if anyone bothers to tell him about them.

[ranjitb]

There is also anecdotal evidence that even "weaves" i.e. stuff that all AS should be able to do are just easier for some than for others. The most obvious example is healing of course - some can do it, some can barely do it, and some just do it better than others, and it seems to be uncorrelated to strength. Egwene and Sheriam (V. strong) are horrible at it, and the two supposed best healers in the tower - Corele and Samitsu aren't regarded as being particularly strong.

 

It was also mentioned that being able to block open a gateway that another channeler had opened was a specific talent - Only LTT (and Rand) and Semirhage could do it. So it's not surprising that a weak channeler could just be suited to doing this particular thing. Somewhat of an Idiot Savant, our man Androl.

 

Which leads me to a (somewhat surprising) question - have we ever seen anyone open and maintain multiple gates at once ? I know Rand (and by extension Logain) does this with "Deathgates" but those are also described as tied off weaves so it's possible he creates them in rapid succession and not parallel.