who is Mat?

[mb]

Exactly, every argument against Mat being Aemon reborn pretty much revolves around Hawkwing not "recognizing" him at Falme.

But what if Aemon's soul isn't bound to the Horn in the first place? Pretty much screws the only real good argument against Mat being Aemon eh.

There is actually no proof or disproof on Mat being Aemon reborn.

 

Though if Aemon did become a Hero, then Hawkwing's non-recognition would have disproven it. Currently no proof or disproof on Aemon being a Hero.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Are there any quotes that say all people are reincarnated? I can only find references to the Heros of the Horn and the Champions of Light and Dark being reborn.

 

yes everyone is reborn...

RJ's blog 4 October 2005 "ONE MORE TIME"

 

- Everybody fears death because the being that is reborn, while possessing the same soul, will not be the same person. The fear is simple. I will cease to exist. Someone else will exist, bearing my soul. But I will cease. I have met many believers in reincarnation, and most of them seem to fear death just as much as anyone else.

 

DragonCon 4 September 2005 - Emma reporting

 

Question: Previously you have made it known that an individual who is severed will retain the ability to channel in his or her subsequent life, which connects the ability to channel with the soul. How does burning out affect ones ability to channel in the next life? Specifically, will an individual born with the spark but who burns out during his or her life have the inborn spark in a subsequent life?

 

Jordan: I don't think I have said if you are born with the spark you would have the have the spark again. I have said if you were born with the ability to channel, to learn or with the spark, you will, when your soul is born again, you will have the ability again, whether with the spark or without. And neither burning out or severing affects that except in this lifetime, your current lifetime.

 

i believe every soul is reborn, and i believe every soul in the wheel of time is reborn, but unless there are more words to go with those quotes, neither says that every soul in the wheel of time is reborn.

[Randommer]

About everyone being reborn, no proof but the common belief/"hope" of rebirth might be an indicator.

 

Hawkwing's non-recognition to me only indicates not a Hero reborn.

"anyone of significance" could mean almost anything.

 

 

 

Exactly, every argument against Mat being Aemon reborn pretty much revolves around Hawkwing not "recognizing" him at Falme.

But what if Aemon's soul isn't bound to the Horn in the first place? Pretty much screws the only real good argument against Mat being Aemon eh.

Yup. But not only that, why the heck would Hawkwing tell Mat who he used to be anyway? Rand already knew he was the Dragon, and he had to know he was the Dragon, but that's not the way it usually is. Usually people are supposed to have no knowledge of their previous lives, heroes of the horn included (just think of Birgitte).

 

Also, though this is admittedly shaky evidence, I've always found that line from the Aelfinn strange: "To die and live again, and live once more a part of what was." Everyone always assumes this refers to the memories that get stuffed in Mat's head, but that doesn't seem right to me. How can he 'live them once more' when he never lived them to begin with? And he's not 'living' them anyway; he just remembers them. Sounds way more like a past life reference to me (perhaps about Aemon and Eldrene ruling together again?) and the Finns did have all kinds of crazy titles for Mat.

[Finnssss22]

Exactly, every argument against Mat being Aemon reborn pretty much revolves around Hawkwing not "recognizing" him at Falme.

But what if Aemon's soul isn't bound to the Horn in the first place? Pretty much screws the only real good argument against Mat being Aemon eh.

There is actually no proof or disproof on Mat being Aemon reborn.

 

Though if Aemon did become a Hero, then Hawkwing's non-recognition would have disproven it. Currently no proof or disproof on Aemon being a Hero.

 

 

More evidence for than against though imo.

Explaining away his memory of being Aemon at the fall of Manetheren is not easy. Nor is his complete fluency in the Old Tongue, albeit mostly sub-conscientiously, prior to going through the Doorway in Rhuidean.

[Suttree]

Explaining away his memory of being Aemon at the fall of Manetheren is not easy.

 

Do we know that was Aemon for certain?

[Finnssss22]

Explaining away his memory of being Aemon at the fall of Manetheren is not easy.

 

Do we know that was Aemon for certain?

 

Very little doubt. The timing, the place, his Banner-man, he was leading the entire army not to mention the Heart Guard itself, was Aemon's personal guard.

[UGAShadow]

I've always assumed to be ta'veren you had to be a HotH. I wouldn't think the pattern would just make ANY soul the most important thread(s) in the pattern.

 

 

As for why Artur Hawkwing didn't speak to them. Rand is special. He knows who he is. He knows he was the Dragon. He is unique in that. I'd hazard it's against the rules to reveal who you were in past lives generally.

[mb]

My guess has been that the precepts apply to just Telaranrhiod and not to when the Horn calls them nor when they are spun/ripped out.

 

Hawkwing speaking (bold mine)::

Only a few are bound to the Wheel, spun out again and again to work the will of the Wheel in the Pattern of the Ages. You could tell him, Lews Therin, could you but remember when you wore flesh.

The bold seems to indicate that Hawking was requesting for Rand to explain it probably to Mat.

Had Mat and/or any of the others been reborns of Heroes, Hawkwing's comments up through that last part probably would not have been made since they could have known such stuff.

 

And like I pointed in past threads, Trumpeter and Bannerman seem to be no more than titles.

 

The other pre-series taveren (besides Hawkwing) was not a Hero.

 

 

Something that has been on my mind for several days now::

One likely candidate from history for Mat's soul might be Kutuzov (a Russian general).

[spoke]

Mat is Aemon link

 

I created this a while ago, so unless you think he isn't Aemon, ignore this.

[Superhal]

1. Mat isn't Aemon reincarnated, I just read that in the FAQ.

 

2. Mat's memories don't come from past lives. They come from people who entered the Mayene/Tear ter'angreal in the past.

 

3. Yes, I think Mat was fluent in the Old Tongue before he entered the ter'angreal. When the AS at TV were severing his bond to the dagger, he spouted off a bunch of threats in the old tongue.

 

4. I think it's quite possible for ta'veren to be completely new, un-reincarnated souls/threads spun out by the pattern, which is why Artur Hawkwing is still named Artur Hawkwing at Falme.

[UGAShadow]

My guess has been that the precepts apply to just Telaranrhiod and not to when the Horn calls them nor when they are spun/ripped out.

 

Hawkwing speaking (bold mine)::

Only a few are bound to the Wheel, spun out again and again to work the will of the Wheel in the Pattern of the Ages. You could tell him, Lews Therin, could you but remember when you wore flesh.

The bold seems to indicate that Hawking was requesting for Rand to explain it probably to Mat.

Had Mat and/or any of the others been reborns of Heroes, Hawkwing's comments up through that last part probably would not have been made since they could have known such stuff.

 

And like I pointed in past threads, Trumpeter and Bannerman seem to be no more than titles.

 

The other pre-series taveren (besides Hawkwing) was not a Hero.

 

 

Something that has been on my mind for several days now::

One likely candidate from history for Mat's soul might be Kutuzov (a Russian general).

 

Like I said, I think he addressed Rand like that because he is the Dragon Reborn. He KNOWS who he is. He's a special case.

 

 

1. Mat isn't Aemon reincarnated, I just read that in the FAQ.

 

2. Mat's memories don't come from past lives. They come from people who entered the Mayene/Tear ter'angreal in the past.

 

3. Yes, I think Mat was fluent in the Old Tongue before he entered the ter'angreal. When the AS at TV were severing his bond to the dagger, he spouted off a bunch of threats in the old tongue.

 

4. I think it's quite possible for ta'veren to be completely new, un-reincarnated souls/threads spun out by the pattern, which is why Artur Hawkwing is still named Artur Hawkwing at Falme.

 

 

Hawkwing is called Hawkwing because that was who he was in his last life. Just like Birgette.

 

I think the pattern could use regular people as ta'veren. I just don't think they would chance using Mr. Generic for the Last Battle. Both Perrin and Mat are the strongest Ta'veren since Hawkwing, discounting Rand. I just think the Pattern would want their best people working on its biggest problems.

[mb]

Not just the Aelfinn doorway, but also the Eelfinn doorway and also Tower of Ghenjei.

Only a portion of the memories could have come from last lives; because the memories overlap.

 

And the books do not tell which number life the names were. Those names are the most common, not necessarily of last life.

[Superhal]

If anything, I'm pretty sure he could be the one who wrote Fog and Steel, Madoc Comadrin. Whenever he mentions that he got his battle ideas from "a book he read once," I feel like he's actually remembering writing, not reading, the book.

[Finnssss22]

1. Mat isn't Aemon reincarnated, I just read that in the FAQ.

 

So your opinion matches the opinion expressed in the FAQ?

You realise the FAQ is still just opinion and not actually Fact right

 

2. Mat's memories don't come from past lives. They come from people who entered the Mayene/Tear ter'angreal in the past.

 

Incorrect, Mat's memory of being Aemon upon waking after his cleansing from the Dagger is looooong before he steps through either Doorway.

So not quit all of his other memories were given to him him by the Eelfinn

 

3. Yes, I think Mat was fluent in the Old Tongue before he entered the ter'angreal. When the AS at TV were severing his bond to the dagger, he spouted off a bunch of threats in the old tongue.

 

No thinking involved here actually. He most assuredly was fluent in the OT prior to entering either Doorway. The Snakes and Foxes converse in the OT. Rand needed a translator when he went through, Mat didn't blink an eye.

 

 

If anything, I'm pretty sure he could be the one who wrote Fog and Steel, Madoc Comadrin. Whenever he mentions that he got his battle ideas from "a book he read once," I feel like he's actually remembering writing, not reading, the book.

 

You mean he could have some of the memories of Madoc when he wrote the book right.

Possible but aside from just mentioning that he read the book, he also actually does remember reading it, as well as actually meeting Madoc in person.