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Early Book Inconsistencies


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Ishamael heals Lews Therin in the prologue, I don't think that's possible to do remotely.

 

 

The True Power is different. Who knows what's possible with that. Plus, Ishy was insane in the membrain. Not from the taint, but from good ole' fashion regular insanity. So it's possible that the Dark One was granting Lews Therin his moment of sanity, and Ishy was taking credit for it, believing delusionaly that he and the Dark One were somehow one and the same, or something. Kind of like adopting the name Baal'zamon simply because the trollocs called him that by mistake, or whatever.

Edited by El Oscuro
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Sure the True Power is different but it appears to obey a number of the same rules (like the fact that it is channeled and woven by humans) so I don't think it makes sense to say that anything at all could be possible just because we don't know everything about it just yet.

Also I think that passage in the book makes it clear that Ishamael is performing the healing rather than it being a random but well-timed act of the Dark One.

Ba'alzamon means 'the Heart of the Dark' and Ishamael has always functioned as the Dark One's hand in the world. I don't think he really thought he himself was the Dark One but he clearly didn't mind people thinking that he was.

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... I don't think it makes sense to say that anything at all could be possible just because we don't know everything about it just yet. ...

 

 

Think about your statement there. You have it completely backwards. If there is ever a time one can safely say, "well, I guess anything is possible," regarding something, it is when one does not know everything about that something. Lack of understanding is exactly what gives room for the unknown endless possibilities. :darkone:

Edited by El Oscuro
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You would be right if I had said 'anything' but I in fact said 'everything'. In this case there is plenty we do know about the True Power and plenty we can reasonably suppose or rule out based on what we do know. Just because we don't know everything doesn't mean we can ignore what we do know.

I'm not sure how I can make this clearer. Please don't make me think of an analogy.

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I suppose the most glaring one, for me, is how much more formidable Fades and Trollocs were in the first few books.

 

I don't find that at all. At the very start of tEotW, Trollocs were mythical, as far as the sheltered Two Rivers folk were concerned. As the characters develop and become more strong and worldly-wise, not to mention developing various battle skills, then the scary foes and creatures will seem far less formidable as they become more used, and equipped to deal with them. It's like feeling overwhelmed on the first day in school, or a new job or whatever, compared to being accustomed to a new environment.

At least that's the way I see it.

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I suppose the most glaring one, for me, is how much more formidable Fades and Trollocs were in the first few books.

 

I don't find that at all. At the very start of tEotW, Trollocs were mythical, as far as the sheltered Two Rivers folk were concerned. As the characters develop and become more strong and worldly-wise, not to mention developing various battle skills, then the scary foes and creatures will seem far less formidable as they become more used, and equipped to deal with them.

 

 

Oh, they're still perfectly formidable foes to the average person. Send Byrne's army to face a Trolloc horde and watch the casualty rates. Read ToM and see how regular soldiers handle the Shadowspawn. (It's not pretty or easy, even for one of the Great Generals.)

 

The perceived lessening of the once formidable Fades and Trollocs is due to the high-powered nature of the main characters who are facing them. We focus on Rand and Logain casting deathgates or blossoms of fire...and ignore the Saldeans caught in the burning manor out-buildings in KoD.

 

Slap a shield on Rand and let him face a couple of Trollocs.... (Ok, he'd probably still win easily but he's ta'veren so it's only expected.) Slap a shield on an Aes Sedai or Asha'man and my money's on the hungry Trolloc.

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Lanfear just popping up whenever she feels fit, to whoever she wants. Like strolling into Mat's sick room in the White Tower in TDR, he says that she appears out of nowhere, and then disappears while he's looking at her, no explanation how. And she doesn't turn invisible either, because she would still need to get out of the sick room somehow...

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Lanfear just popping up whenever she feels fit, to whoever she wants. Like strolling into Mat's sick room in the White Tower in TDR, he says that she appears out of nowhere, and then disappears while he's looking at her, no explanation how. And she doesn't turn invisible either, because she would still need to get out of the sick room somehow...
Do you have a quotation?
The door opened. [...] The woman who came in, dressed all in white silk and silver, shut the door behind her
She slipped out of the door as silently and gracefully as she had entered.
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Lanfear just popping up whenever she feels fit, to whoever she wants. Like strolling into Mat's sick room in the White Tower in TDR, he says that she appears out of nowhere, and then disappears while he's looking at her, no explanation how. And she doesn't turn invisible either, because she would still need to get out of the sick room somehow...

We can generally assume she either traveled with an inverted weave or just used the Mask of Mirrors. Either would allow her easy access. It really isn't that hard to get into the Tower.

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Yeah, that sounds like textbook Mirror of Mists/Mask of Mirrors/whatever the term is for Power camouflage is. And the door was open at that point, so she'd have no problem just walking out. She uses it to evade Egwene in the Tower in TDR25, also, and probably whenever she's snooping on Rand.

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Another thing that is in my opinion not a good part in the first books, it's like they almost aren't talking with each other on their journey away from Two Rivers. Somewhere Rand sayd that he hadn't talked with Egwene for 3 days or so. I can't imagine that. You're on a journey with a few people, and you just don't talk to each other.

 

In the later books i didn't find anything like that.

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  • 1 month later...

Here's something i was curious about in TGH... Verin is asked by an ogier elder to lay her hands on an ogier who has been touched by the black wind after travelling the ways.. after laying her hands on him she declares that there is nothing left in him... no soul or mind.. but she's in a stedding so unless i'm missing something she can't channel to delve him.. AM i missing something?

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One thing that always bothered me was how the bad plants (and little bad critters) in the Blight shied away from Moiraine because "they know what she is" in some way. Also, Moiraine and Lan being able to sense Shadowspawn, unless they get surprised, or in the later books.

Edited by stoneface
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Here's something i was curious about in TGH... Verin is asked by an ogier elder to lay her hands on an ogier who has been touched by the black wind after travelling the ways.. after laying her hands on him she declares that there is nothing left in him... no soul or mind.. but she's in a stedding so unless i'm missing something she can't channel to delve him.. AM i missing something?

 

Someone who has lost their soul feels physically cold to the touch. Verin didn't delve him, she just felt his temperature--this gets explained in WH ch. 5 when Perrin nearly dies hunting Faile in the Wolf Dream. Annoura explains (via Berelain, who else felt it) that Perrin felt like one who had lost their soul. Cold to touch no matter how many blankets were put on him.

 

Also, Moiraine and Lan being able to sense Shadowspawn, unless they get surprised, or in the later books.

 

This holds true in the later books--the most recent example I can think of being in Knife of Dreams during the attack on Algarin's manor. Only when the shadowspawn is warded are they hidden from the senses of channelers and warders.

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To me the most glaring inconsistency was the sheath for the SL dagger. Rand stole a bare-bladed SL dagger from Fain when he took the Horn. It goes into the chest. Fain steals chest and can't open it. Fain takes both to Falme. Turak opens the chest, and keeps both. Fain, we presume, still has the sheathe. Mat steals the dagger back, and blows the Horn. Next time we see Mat is during the Healing in the Tower. The dagger they take from him is described as "golden-sheathed". So that leaves us to wonder how Verin got the sheath away from Fain.

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That's not really a worldbuilding inconsistency, though, just an error that's somehow escaped correction.

 

True. Well, along the same vein, how about Moiraine sensing the evil of the SL dagger in Camelyn, but 7 AS (including Cadsuane) did not sense the evil of the dagger when Fain is in Caroline Damodred's rebel camp.

 

And while not specifically a 'worldbuilding' inconsistency, I have always wondered why Min doesn't recognize Brigette in Salidar or for that matter remember her from Salidar when she sees her again in Camelyn. Min does remember that she had seen Brigette at Falme, but never connects seeing her either time with the golden-braided woman calling herself Brigette in Salidar. They were both in Salidar for quite a while, but Min never sees a vision about her there, but they all spring up in the palace hallways.

Edited by Ishadar
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To me the most glaring inconsistency was the sheath for the SL dagger. Rand stole a bare-bladed SL dagger from Fain when he took the Horn. It goes into the chest. Fain steals chest and can't open it. Fain takes both to Falme. Turak opens the chest, and keeps both. Fain, we presume, still has the sheathe. Mat steals the dagger back, and blows the Horn. Next time we see Mat is during the Healing in the Tower. The dagger they take from him is described as "golden-sheathed". So that leaves us to wonder how Verin got the sheath away from Fain.

 

 

That's not really a worldbuilding inconsistency, though, just an error that's somehow escaped correction.

 

 

I don't think this was an error. I think there was a lot more to this then it seems on the face.

Edited by Canis Rufus
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Possibly this is not an inconsistency, depending on whether you accept that Mordeth is something 'new'.

 

From 'The Eye of the World' Ch 50 "Meetings at the Eye"

 

"Who are you?" Lan's stance was cautious, his hand on his sword hilt. "How did you come here? If you are seeking the Green Man — " "He guided us." The hand that pointed to Mat was old and shriveled to scarcely human, lacking a fingernail and with knuckles gnarled like knots in a piece of rope. Mat took a step back, eyes widening. "An old thing, an old friend, an old enemy. But he is not the one we seek," the green-cloaked man finished. The other man stood as if he would never speak.

 

 

How would Aginor know about the dagger/SL taint, and more specifically who/what it was. Aridhol rose and fell well after all of the Forsaken had been bound (except Ishy) so why would Aginor refer to it as "An old thing, an old friend, an old enemy" if Mordeth's evil was unknown in the AoL. To me, it does not come across as though he is talking about something that he only has known while sleeping in the Bore. The entire phrase speaks of something that Aginor knew of before being Sealed up, but we are told that the evil of SL is something new, something that had never came about until well after the Breaking, something that had not existed in any previous Age.

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Aginor and Balthamel were not completely sealed; they had awareness of the world, as well as some physical exposure to time (which is why their bodies were nearly dead). And, less likely, there's that Mordeth found something pre-existing in his effort to fight Shai'tan, which eventually became Mashadar – but Aginor may have been aware of what the origin was.

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The Creator saying "I'm going to stay out of it" (or I'M GOING TO STAY OUT OF IT) is perfectly reasonable. What is irritatingly strange is that Rand never gives a second thought to this giant, disembodied voice that spoke to him. No 'who the heck was that?'. No 'thanks a lot for sitting this one out, Creator!'.

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I'm not sure this is an inconsistency either, but in the first book, Moiraine is able to find the boys even when they lose their coins, she can sense them because she healed them. It expounds later on, when Nynaeve reluctantly admits that she is able to sense Egwene, having healed her when she was ignorant that she was using the OP as an "ignorant" (to Aes Sedai, anyways) village wisdom.

 

If this is so, a lot of people should be sensing a lot of people by now, and I'm surprised we see little mention of it in the later books.

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