Rand's Waaayy too Strong

[NetSlider]

Just a thought completely out of the blue and of your discussion about the channeling ability of Rand .

Will it be to childish to consider Rand using the One power to enhance is ability in the sword just like , all thing consider , Yoda ?

 

 

I mean that just a thought

 

Moirene use staff as a focus point in EotW but not in that capacity.

[mbuehner]

 

"Matt: So, they don’t have power to affect the soul’s capability of increasing its total channelling?

Brandon: Certainly not permanently; as far I understand, that is outside the realm of their ability."

 

So the Finns should not be able to permanently increase/decrease someone's strength.

 

 

Whoa, whoa, Brandon said they can't INCREASE it, not decrease it. They can decrease it. It's quite clear from the way Moiraine was drained that Lanfear was drained the same way, but killed before they could get too much.

 

Why are there so many crazy theories? Lanfear had a small angreal on her at all times? Really?

 

Occam's razor. Lanfear was at her full power until the Finns ate some. She has less now.

 

I see the point about the ter'angreal somebody above made.

 

Obviously the Finns decreased Lanfears power initially. But from what Sanderson is implying they have no permanent effect, while he mentions specifically an increase...why would it not apply to a decrease? That is, when one is reborn this decrease will not remain. If they can permanently decrease someone's ability by draining them that means there is no fixed channeler strength level ...then I do not see why it cannot go the other way, via a wish for a permanent increase in OP strength.

 

Why would Lanfear have a small angreal handy? To ensure nobody really knows her true strength...that unknown variable is another advantage in battle. The theory is a bit out there, I know :)

 

But she hasn't been reborn yet. She was transmigrated by the DO straight into a new body. So it is possibly still in the temporary phase.

 

This.

 

It seems the DO grabs a soul at the moment of death (which is why he can't transmigrate someone who is balefired, the timing gets screwed up), so in a sense the DO interferes with the souls progression to whatever the afterworld/waiting to be re-spun out anew is. Remember that even balefired souls are reborn eventually, and obviously when souls are naturally respun they have no memories of what happened in former lives etc (The Dragon aside of course). Clearly transmigration short circuits the natural order of things, so Lanfears soul never gets to the afterlife to be healed.

 

As far as what the Finns do- there is no reason to believe that because they can drain they can also enhance. You could bash somebody's head in so that their brain is damaged and they can't think well... that doesn't prove that you can do something else that would make their brain work better.

[Express]

I don't think there is a 'new power' but what is wrong with theorizing that there's another power. There was only the OP split into Saidin and Saidar until Lanfear drilled into a 'new' power at the time. If there is a yin/yang like RJ considers the Creator and DO then why wouldn't there be a complete opposite of the TP and not the split up OP? If that were possible then maybe Rand was able to discover the TS while on Dragonmount or the Creator has given him permission to channel the TS similar to what the DO does with the TP.

 

AND, as for evidence of another 'Power', apples, food at Ebou Dar(maybe Bandar Eban, I don't have my book here at work), Rand being filled with something described as a light that dark friends are unable to even look at him, I'm sure there are others and I'm sure it could be theorized that it's just the pattern being corrected but how? Even the 'Wheel' has to be using a 'Power'!

[mbuehner]

I don't think there is a 'new power' but what is wrong with theorizing that there's another power. There was only the OP split into Saidin and Saidar until Lanfear drilled into a 'new' power at the time. If there is a yin/yang like RJ considers the Creator and DO then why wouldn't there be a complete opposite of the TP and not the split up OP? If that were possible then maybe Rand was able to discover the TS while on Dragonmount or the Creator has given him permission to channel the TS similar to what the DO does with the TP.

 

AND, as for evidence of another 'Power', apples, food at Ebou Dar(maybe Bandar Eban, I don't have my book here at work), Rand being filled with something described as a light that dark friends are unable to even look at him, I'm sure there are others and I'm sure it could be theorized that it's just the pattern being corrected but how? Even the 'Wheel' has to be using a 'Power'!

 

Because you might as well be theorizing the Rand is channeling the spirit of Christmas. Aside from having no real evidence to base it off, it would be an awful deus ex machina for the Creator to suddenly hand the hero some invincible weapon shortly before the last battle. Kinda makes everything up to now pointless- if Rand's channeling 'god', what do we have to worry about?

[Express]

I don't think there is a 'new power' but what is wrong with theorizing that there's another power. There was only the OP split into Saidin and Saidar until Lanfear drilled into a 'new' power at the time. If there is a yin/yang like RJ considers the Creator and DO then why wouldn't there be a complete opposite of the TP and not the split up OP? If that were possible then maybe Rand was able to discover the TS while on Dragonmount or the Creator has given him permission to channel the TS similar to what the DO does with the TP.

 

AND, as for evidence of another 'Power', apples, food at Ebou Dar(maybe Bandar Eban, I don't have my book here at work), Rand being filled with something described as a light that dark friends are unable to even look at him, I'm sure there are others and I'm sure it could be theorized that it's just the pattern being corrected but how? Even the 'Wheel' has to be using a 'Power'!

 

Because you might as well be theorizing the Rand is channeling the spirit of Christmas. Aside from having no real evidence to base it off, it would be an awful deus ex machina for the Creator to suddenly hand the hero some invincible weapon shortly before the last battle. Kinda makes everything up to now pointless- if Rand's channeling 'god', what do we have to worry about?

 

I do see your point, 'Rand channeling God' and would concur that would make a lot of things pointless but there's going to be a 'deus ex machina' and you or I might not like it. I guess I see a lot of similarities in Rand and Jesus, sorry. I just see that Rand has a difference, maybe it's the knowledge, maybe he has grown stronger, maybe the 'light' as some people put it is with him or maybe it's the 'Wheels will'. I would go way way out there on the limb and continue to say Rand has the TS now. As for 'God', I don't believe at anytime has any character mentioned one. "The Wheel weaves as the wheel wills," not it's up to God now. I could be wrong, I don't have the books memorized. So, I would say that the TS is a creating power while the TP is a destroying power and just because Rand could wield the TS doesn't make it necessary that he has an 'invincible weapon' just that he will have a chance.

 

I do pose this question though, what is Rand using to recreate the apple season or to change the food from being so bad that people that eat it die? What is this evidence of?

[mbuehner]

I don't think there is a 'new power' but what is wrong with theorizing that there's another power. There was only the OP split into Saidin and Saidar until Lanfear drilled into a 'new' power at the time. If there is a yin/yang like RJ considers the Creator and DO then why wouldn't there be a complete opposite of the TP and not the split up OP? If that were possible then maybe Rand was able to discover the TS while on Dragonmount or the Creator has given him permission to channel the TS similar to what the DO does with the TP.

 

AND, as for evidence of another 'Power', apples, food at Ebou Dar(maybe Bandar Eban, I don't have my book here at work), Rand being filled with something described as a light that dark friends are unable to even look at him, I'm sure there are others and I'm sure it could be theorized that it's just the pattern being corrected but how? Even the 'Wheel' has to be using a 'Power'!

 

Because you might as well be theorizing the Rand is channeling the spirit of Christmas. Aside from having no real evidence to base it off, it would be an awful deus ex machina for the Creator to suddenly hand the hero some invincible weapon shortly before the last battle. Kinda makes everything up to now pointless- if Rand's channeling 'god', what do we have to worry about?

 

I do see your point, 'Rand channeling God' and would concur that would make a lot of things pointless but there's going to be a 'deus ex machina' and you or I might not like it. I guess I see a lot of similarities in Rand and Jesus, sorry. I just see that Rand has a difference, maybe it's the knowledge, maybe he has grown stronger, maybe the 'light' as some people put it is with him or maybe it's the 'Wheels will'. I would go way way out there on the limb and continue to say Rand has the TS now. As for 'God', I don't believe at anytime has any character mentioned one. "The Wheel weaves as the wheel wills," not it's up to God now. I could be wrong, I don't have the books memorized. So, I would say that the TS is a creating power while the TP is a destroying power and just because Rand could wield the TS doesn't make it necessary that he has an 'invincible weapon' just that he will have a chance.

 

I do pose this question though, what is Rand using to recreate the apple season or to change the food from being so bad that people that eat it die? What is this evidence of?

 

They refer to the creator, which assumedly is their version of God.

 

Rand isn't using any power to affect apples and so forth, its some manifestation of Ta'veren imo. Certainly its not something he can call upon at will or knows a great deal about (as he mentions in the introduction). The shadow is 'cheating' the pattern by laying its evil across it, creating all these deadly problems. It would make sense that the pattern would seek to counter this to heal itself, which is what ta'veren are spun out to do. We don't need an additional hypothetical power to explain this. The Dragon is one with the land... that doesn't make it a power he is tapping into, its a feature of his existence.

[Lacanos]

I don't think there is a 'new power' but what is wrong with theorizing that there's another power. There was only the OP split into Saidin and Saidar until Lanfear drilled into a 'new' power at the time. If there is a yin/yang like RJ considers the Creator and DO then why wouldn't there be a complete opposite of the TP and not the split up OP? If that were possible then maybe Rand was able to discover the TS while on Dragonmount or the Creator has given him permission to channel the TS similar to what the DO does with the TP.

 

AND, as for evidence of another 'Power', apples, food at Ebou Dar(maybe Bandar Eban, I don't have my book here at work), Rand being filled with something described as a light that dark friends are unable to even look at him, I'm sure there are others and I'm sure it could be theorized that it's just the pattern being corrected but how? Even the 'Wheel' has to be using a 'Power'!

 

Because you might as well be theorizing the Rand is channeling the spirit of Christmas. Aside from having no real evidence to base it off, it would be an awful deus ex machina for the Creator to suddenly hand the hero some invincible weapon shortly before the last battle. Kinda makes everything up to now pointless- if Rand's channeling 'god', what do we have to worry about?

 

I do see your point, 'Rand channeling God' and would concur that would make a lot of things pointless but there's going to be a 'deus ex machina' and you or I might not like it. I guess I see a lot of similarities in Rand and Jesus, sorry. I just see that Rand has a difference, maybe it's the knowledge, maybe he has grown stronger, maybe the 'light' as some people put it is with him or maybe it's the 'Wheels will'. I would go way way out there on the limb and continue to say Rand has the TS now. As for 'God', I don't believe at anytime has any character mentioned one. "The Wheel weaves as the wheel wills," not it's up to God now. I could be wrong, I don't have the books memorized. So, I would say that the TS is a creating power while the TP is a destroying power and just because Rand could wield the TS doesn't make it necessary that he has an 'invincible weapon' just that he will have a chance.

 

I do pose this question though, what is Rand using to recreate the apple season or to change the food from being so bad that people that eat it die? What is this evidence of?

There's definitely something surrounding him, fending off the DO etc, we can all see that.

However, by referring to a new power, people have been claiming there's a 4th, along with the OP's two forms and the TP, which there is no evidence for. The point is, he's still channeling Saidin.

[Entreri]

"Rand isn't using any power to affect apples and so forth, its some manifestation of Ta'veren imo."

 

What about Perrin and Matt? Or other ta'avern in history? As if this is based on ta'avern strength, then what about LTT? I did not read anything on LTT being able to do what Rand can.

 

 

When DR was remade in Dragonmount. I go with what someone on here said, a mini-Creator like ability. So I would say it is his mere presence that affects reality without it being ta'avern. If that makes sense.

[Entreri]

 

"Matt: So, they don’t have power to affect the soul’s capability of increasing its total channelling?

Brandon: Certainly not permanently; as far I understand, that is outside the realm of their ability."

 

So the Finns should not be able to permanently increase/decrease someone's strength.

 

 

Whoa, whoa, Brandon said they can't INCREASE it, not decrease it. They can decrease it. It's quite clear from the way Moiraine was drained that Lanfear was drained the same way, but killed before they could get too much.

 

Why are there so many crazy theories? Lanfear had a small angreal on her at all times? Really?

 

Occam's razor. Lanfear was at her full power until the Finns ate some. She has less now.

 

I see the point about the ter'angreal somebody above made.

 

Obviously the Finns decreased Lanfears power initially. But from what Sanderson is implying they have no permanent effect, while he mentions specifically an increase...why would it not apply to a decrease? That is, when one is reborn this decrease will not remain. If they can permanently decrease someone's ability by draining them that means there is no fixed channeler strength level ...then I do not see why it cannot go the other way, via a wish for a permanent increase in OP strength.

 

Why would Lanfear have a small angreal handy? To ensure nobody really knows her true strength...that unknown variable is another advantage in battle. The theory is a bit out there, I know :)

 

But she hasn't been reborn yet. She was transmigrated by the DO straight into a new body. So it is possibly still in the temporary phase.

 

This.

 

It seems the DO grabs a soul at the moment of death (which is why he can't transmigrate someone who is balefired, the timing gets screwed up), so in a sense the DO interferes with the souls progression to whatever the afterworld/waiting to be re-spun out anew is. Remember that even balefired souls are reborn eventually, and obviously when souls are naturally respun they have no memories of what happened in former lives etc (The Dragon aside of course). Clearly transmigration short circuits the natural order of things, so Lanfears soul never gets to the afterlife to be healed.

 

As far as what the Finns do- there is no reason to believe that because they can drain they can also enhance. You could bash somebody's head in so that their brain is damaged and they can't think well... that doesn't prove that you can do something else that would make their brain work better.

 

 

I go with the part not being reborn, thus Lanfear is still weaker. Ok with most of the rest.

 

However, once balefired, permanently erased from the Pattern from what I gathered.

[moratcorlm]

The Dragon is one with the land, and the land is one with the Dragon. The Fisher King stuff isn't part of the normal ta'veren effect; that works by altering probabilities, and their food can reject Shai'tan's touch, but what Rand did to Bunt's orchard is beyond improbable. But it's prophesied; just as "There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he one with the land" when Rand's the "Soul of fire, heart of stone", so there is health and growth when "the heart of stone remembers tears, and the soul of fire, love."

 

We know far too little about Lews Therin Telamon to tell if he was capable of such a thing, but perhaps it is a quality of Third Age Dragons and not Second Age ones. Can't say. But it predates his epiphany on Dragonmount.

[mbuehner]

"Rand isn't using any power to affect apples and so forth, its some manifestation of Ta'veren imo."

 

What about Perrin and Matt? Or other ta'avern in history? As if this is based on ta'avern strength, then what about LTT? I did not read anything on LTT being able to do what Rand can.

 

 

When DR was remade in Dragonmount. I go with what someone on here said, a mini-Creator like ability. So I would say it is his mere presence that affects reality without it being ta'avern. If that makes sense.

 

Why don't dice always come up winners when Rand or Perrin throw them? Does that mean they can't be ta'veren? Demonstrably it works differently on different people, and Rand is the most powerful Ta'veren in history. Even moreso than Lews Therin was- its documented that one isn't born Ta'veren, it develops, and its developed around Rand in time for the Last Battle to an order of magnitude above any other. It has to, as the DO's influence on the pattern is greater than it has ever been.

 

It wouldn't make sense for him to be a mini-creator, because he would have no need to channel Saidin. He could just undue whatever the Dark One does, which would ruin the story. The far more simple and elegant answer is that the pattern is working overtime to allow the Champion of the Light to meet his destiny and save the Wheel.

[mbuehner]

 

"Matt: So, they don’t have power to affect the soul’s capability of increasing its total channelling?

Brandon: Certainly not permanently; as far I understand, that is outside the realm of their ability."

 

So the Finns should not be able to permanently increase/decrease someone's strength.

 

 

Whoa, whoa, Brandon said they can't INCREASE it, not decrease it. They can decrease it. It's quite clear from the way Moiraine was drained that Lanfear was drained the same way, but killed before they could get too much.

 

Why are there so many crazy theories? Lanfear had a small angreal on her at all times? Really?

 

Occam's razor. Lanfear was at her full power until the Finns ate some. She has less now.

 

I see the point about the ter'angreal somebody above made.

 

Obviously the Finns decreased Lanfears power initially. But from what Sanderson is implying they have no permanent effect, while he mentions specifically an increase...why would it not apply to a decrease? That is, when one is reborn this decrease will not remain. If they can permanently decrease someone's ability by draining them that means there is no fixed channeler strength level ...then I do not see why it cannot go the other way, via a wish for a permanent increase in OP strength.

 

Why would Lanfear have a small angreal handy? To ensure nobody really knows her true strength...that unknown variable is another advantage in battle. The theory is a bit out there, I know :)

 

But she hasn't been reborn yet. She was transmigrated by the DO straight into a new body. So it is possibly still in the temporary phase.

 

This.

 

It seems the DO grabs a soul at the moment of death (which is why he can't transmigrate someone who is balefired, the timing gets screwed up), so in a sense the DO interferes with the souls progression to whatever the afterworld/waiting to be re-spun out anew is. Remember that even balefired souls are reborn eventually, and obviously when souls are naturally respun they have no memories of what happened in former lives etc (The Dragon aside of course). Clearly transmigration short circuits the natural order of things, so Lanfears soul never gets to the afterlife to be healed.

 

As far as what the Finns do- there is no reason to believe that because they can drain they can also enhance. You could bash somebody's head in so that their brain is damaged and they can't think well... that doesn't prove that you can do something else that would make their brain work better.

 

 

I go with the part not being reborn, thus Lanfear is still weaker. Ok with most of the rest.

 

However, once balefired, permanently erased from the Pattern from what I gathered.

 

I don't have the quote in front of me, but I know for a fact Jordan stated a balefired soul would eventually be spun back out by the pattern. Somebody else can site it i'm sure.

[Wheel of Thyme]

Hello all.

Mbuhner, Rand channeling "The Spirit of Christmas" has to be one of the best most amusing comment Ive seen on Dragonmount. I thank you for the Christmas cheer you have spread. <grins>

 

As for Rand knowing he can use the True Power to escape...I am not certain that he CAN do so, now; ZenRand is peace and happiness and love. Its DarthRand who had the negativity of the soul that allowed him access to the Great Lord of the Darks eternal battery.

 

I also concur with James71. Rand has got to lose his vast power, else the story has nothing of substance. Reading of Rand killing tens of thousands of trollocs in a single bound is very neat...once. If it keeps occuring, its not any addition to the story, nor does it develop character, and will become akin to the level of a child who repeatedly stomps on an ant hill.

[capuga]

The Dragon is one with the land, and the land is one with the Dragon. The Fisher King stuff isn't part of the normal ta'veren effect; that works by altering probabilities, and their food can reject Shai'tan's touch, but what Rand did to Bunt's orchard is beyond improbable. But it's prophesied; just as "There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he one with the land" when Rand's the "Soul of fire, heart of stone", so there is health and growth when "the heart of stone remembers tears, and the soul of fire, love."

 

We know far too little about Lews Therin Telamon to tell if he was capable of such a thing, but perhaps it is a quality of Third Age Dragons and not Second Age ones. Can't say. But it predates his epiphany on Dragonmount.

 

^^This, exactly. I posted this in another thread - The apples and sunshine are a result of Rand's Fisher King properties, which is a long running theme in the series. It's also the reason that the grain in Arad Doman spoiled when Rand was all Dark Rand.

[gary0044187]

The Dragon is one with the land, and the land is one with the Dragon. The Fisher King stuff isn't part of the normal ta'veren effect; that works by altering probabilities, and their food can reject Shai'tan's touch, but what Rand did to Bunt's orchard is beyond improbable. But it's prophesied; just as "There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he one with the land" when Rand's the "Soul of fire, heart of stone", so there is health and growth when "the heart of stone remembers tears, and the soul of fire, love."

 

We know far too little about Lews Therin Telamon to tell if he was capable of such a thing, but perhaps it is a quality of Third Age Dragons and not Second Age ones. Can't say. But it predates his epiphany on Dragonmount.

 

^^This, exactly. I posted this in another thread - The apples and sunshine are a result of Rand's Fisher King properties, which is a long running theme in the series. It's also the reason that the grain in Arad Doman spoiled when Rand was all Dark Rand.

I thought that the fisher king was less evident in the 2nd age because of all the functioning terrangreal and AS running around that knew ways to keep the pattern from acting up as much as it is in the 3rd age. consider the Nim and the aiel singing and the bowl of the winds, etc, etc. My thought was that the pattern was less effected by the direct touch of the DO because of how much control the AS had over the world around them. LTT as described never really became dark dragon so I am sure if he was fisher king his effect was less prominent then than it is in 3rd age randland.

[WTF]

rands power can be explained by rand haveing a very powerfull sa'angral remember when he forght the serchen with the 'sword that is not a sword' he wove hundreds of weves at a time so if he had a sa'angral of the same power (or greater) that did not mess with his mind then distroying that army of shadowsporn would be posoble

 

sorry about the spelling

[Byzantine279]

Rand needs to be powerful, hes going up against something that can only be described as a God.

[capuga]

rands power can be explained by rand haveing a very powerfull sa'angral remember when he forght the serchen with the 'sword that is not a sword' he wove hundreds of weves at a time so if he had a sa'angral of the same power (or greater) that did not mess with his mind then distroying that army of shadowsporn would be posoble

 

sorry about the spelling

 

It's unlikely that Rand was using Callandor. Remember, it is unsafe to use except in a circle with two women which Rand knows at this point.

[johthohar]

This.

 

It seems the DO grabs a soul at the moment of death (which is why he can't transmigrate someone who is balefired, the timing gets screwed up)

 

False. Balefire erases the person/soul/whatever from the pattern entirely. It has been stated several times. The Dark One can "grab" a soul and transmigrate it whenever the hell he wants. Doesn't have to be at the "moment of death".

 

Remember that even balefired souls are reborn eventually

 

Also false. I will acknowledge this when you can actually produce proof of it.

 

and obviously when souls are naturally respun they have no memories of what happened in former lives etc (The Dragon aside of course).

 

Rand hearing LTT's voice in his head was an anomaly, but not unique. It is said to have happened to other people before. Stop presenting your theories as fact without evidence.

 

I don't think there is a 'new power' but what is wrong with theorizing that there's another power. There was only the OP split into Saidin and Saidar until Lanfear drilled into a 'new' power at the time. If there is a yin/yang like RJ considers the Creator and DO then why wouldn't there be a complete opposite of the TP and not the split up OP? If that were possible then maybe Rand was able to discover the TS while on Dragonmount or the Creator has given him permission to channel the TS similar to what the DO does with the TP.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with theorizing. I have my share of ridiculous theories for the WoT universe. But when people take their own whacky theories and start to present them as fact.... Well, that's when I want to rip some rebar out of a slab of concrete and pound them over the head with it. Just because you think it's true does not make it canon.

 

AND, as for evidence of another 'Power', apples, food at Ebou Dar(maybe Bandar Eban, I don't have my book here at work), Rand being filled with something described as a light that dark friends are unable to even look at him, I'm sure there are others and I'm sure it could be theorized that it's just the pattern being corrected but how? Even the 'Wheel' has to be using a 'Power'!

 

The Wheel doesn't "use" the Power. It is powered or spun by Saidin and Saidar. Everything else you mentioned can be chalked up to Rand's ta'veren effect or the "Dragon is one with the land" prophecy.

 

I go with the part not being reborn, thus Lanfear is still weaker. Ok with most of the rest.

 

However, once balefired, permanently erased from the Pattern from what I gathered.

 

I don't have the quote in front of me, but I know for a fact Jordan stated a balefired soul would eventually be spun back out by the pattern. Somebody else can site it i'm sure.

 

"Site" is not a verb. I'm sure you meant "cite". And Jordan also said that balefire erases a soul from the pattern. Are you saying that he contradicted himself? Maybe you should "cite" it.

 

rands power can be explained by rand haveing a very powerfull sa'angral remember when he forght the serchen with the 'sword that is not a sword' he wove hundreds of weves at a time so if he had a sa'angral of the same power (or greater) that did not mess with his mind then distroying that army of shadowsporn would be posoble

 

sorry about the spelling

 

"Forght"? Who are you? Coach Z? Good jorb. Also, a sa'angreal enhances the amount of One Power you can channel. Not the amount of weaves you can channel with it. And the only sa'angreal more powerful than Callandor were the Choedan Kal which were both destroyed. Seriously though, I know you apologized for your spelling... But are you 4? Or were you just totally wasted when you posted this?

[Suttree]

This.

 

It seems the DO grabs a soul at the moment of death (which is why he can't transmigrate someone who is balefired, the timing gets screwed up)

 

False. Balefire erases the person/soul/whatever from the pattern entirely. It has been stated several times. The Dark One can "grab" a soul and transmigrate it whenever the hell he wants. Doesn't have to be at the "moment of death".

 

Remember that even balefired souls are reborn eventually

 

Also false. I will acknowledge this when you can actually produce proof of it.

 

No you are wrong on both counts.

 

TPoD Book Signing Northern Virginia, 21 November, 1998

Report by John Novak

 

Balefire: I'm right. (This was my question) What this means is, if someone is Balefired, the Dark One can't reincarnate them. But they CAN be spun

back out into the wheel as normal. Balefire is NOT the eternal death of the soul. He also made a comment to the effect that even in the absence of balefire, there may be circumstances where the Dark One cannot bring someone back. There was a long line, so I didn't press.

 

Here is the WoT faq for you to read up on how balefire works.

 

http://wotfaq.dragonmount.com/node/98

[WTF]

rands power can be explained by rand haveing a very powerfull sa'angral remember when he forght the serchen with the 'sword that is not a sword' he wove hundreds of weves at a time so if he had a sa'angral of the same power (or greater) that did not mess with his mind then distroying that army of shadowsporn would be posoble

 

sorry about the spelling

 

It's unlikely that Rand was using Callandor. Remember, it is unsafe to use except in a circle with two women which Rand knows at this point.

 

If you read the chapter “decisions” in “the shadow rising” Lanfear says that there are two more male sa'angreal that are more powerful l than Callandor that a man can use, i don’t have the book handy so i can’t give an exact quote but it is there, and as to sa'angreal increasing the amount of the one power and not the amount of weaves you can channel when rand was fighting the Seanchan he uses Callandor and creates hundred of lightning bolts at once (i will admit that it doesn’t say hundred of weaves but it also doesn’t say they were all made by one weave).

also i believe that somewhere it the books that it says that angreal act as a buffer against the fatigue that comes with channeling the one power, and since the main reason that it is so hard to hold more than one weave at a time is that it becomes more draining the more weaves you hold so a sa’angreal should act as a buffer against that fatigue as well and probably the grater the sa’angreal the better the buffer , also look at the channelers that can weave multiple weaves at a time, they are all very strong so then if a strong channeler were to use a powerful sa’angreal then he/she should be able to weave more weaves than they could otherwise.

[capuga]

rands power can be explained by rand haveing a very powerfull sa'angral remember when he forght the serchen with the 'sword that is not a sword' he wove hundreds of weves at a time so if he had a sa'angral of the same power (or greater) that did not mess with his mind then distroying that army of shadowsporn would be posoble

 

sorry about the spelling

 

It's unlikely that Rand was using Callandor. Remember, it is unsafe to use except in a circle with two women which Rand knows at this point.

 

If you read the chapter “decisions” in “the shadow rising” Lanfear says that there are two more male sa'angreal that are more powerful l than Callandor that a man can use, i don’t have the book handy so i can’t give an exact quote but it is there, and as to sa'angreal increasing the amount of the one power and not the amount of weaves you can channel when rand was fighting the Seanchan he uses Callandor and creates hundred of lightning bolts at once (i will admit that it doesn’t say hundred of weaves but it also doesn’t say they were all made by one weave).

also i believe that somewhere it the books that it says that angreal act as a buffer against the fatigue that comes with channeling the one power, and since the main reason that it is so hard to hold more than one weave at a time is that it becomes more draining the more weaves you hold so a sa’angreal should act as a buffer against that fatigue as well and probably the grater the sa’angreal the better the buffer , also look at the channelers that can weave multiple weaves at a time, they are all very strong so then if a strong channeler were to use a powerful sa’angreal then he/she should be able to weave more weaves than they could otherwise.

 

One of the two sa'angreal (assuming Lanfear was correct) that was stronger than Callandor was the CK which Rand destroyed at the end of tGS. It seems unlikely to me that Rand has found the other since we haven't seen any evidence of it. Although it is possible. It would make more sense to me than the discovery of a previously unknown new Light power (although we do need some kind of explanation for light seen in Rand's head and the fact his channeling made some darkfriends go crazy when looking at it).

[Entreri]

Interesting point on the ta'averen affect. We will have to find out in AMoL if that is indeed the case or if it is something else altogether.

 

I wonder if Ishamael has the other sa'angreal hidden away for a rainy occasion...He had a very impressive collection of OP items and had nearly 3000 years on and off to collect them.

 

We saw that even Lanfear had a near sa'angreal on her...which Moraine now has.

[Lacanos]

Interesting point on the ta'averen affect. We will have to find out in AMoL if that is indeed the case or if it is something else altogether.

 

I wonder if Ishamael has the other sa'angreal hidden away for a rainy occasion...He had a very impressive collection of OP items and had nearly 3000 years on and off to collect them.

 

We saw that even Lanfear had a near sa'angreal on her...which Moraine now has.

That angreal was found by Moiraine and left by the gateway to distract Lanfear/place her in front of the arch thing

[mbuehner]

This.

 

It seems the DO grabs a soul at the moment of death (which is why he can't transmigrate someone who is balefired, the timing gets screwed up)

 

False. Balefire erases the person/soul/whatever from the pattern entirely. It has been stated several times. The Dark One can "grab" a soul and transmigrate it whenever the hell he wants. Doesn't have to be at the "moment of death".

 

Remember that even balefired souls are reborn eventually

 

Also false. I will acknowledge this when you can actually produce proof of it.

 

No you are wrong on both counts.

 

TPoD Book Signing Northern Virginia, 21 November, 1998

Report by John Novak

 

Balefire: I'm right. (This was my question) What this means is, if someone is Balefired, the Dark One can't reincarnate them. But they CAN be spun

back out into the wheel as normal. Balefire is NOT the eternal death of the soul. He also made a comment to the effect that even in the absence of balefire, there may be circumstances where the Dark One cannot bring someone back. There was a long line, so I didn't press.

 

Here is the WoT faq for you to read up on how balefire works.

 

http://wotfaq.dragonmount.com/node/98

 

And I'd advise paying more attention to the content rather than the spelling and the grammar.