Rand's Waaayy too Strong

[babuada]

How about this.

He will not die. He will be dead but not dead. i.e., coma. And while in coma, he will play endless rounds of Sha'ra with Moridin, so that Moridin has his wish and he does not get time to messup with others. End of story.

It all started because Rand took a break from the game and came out of TAR. Remember Neo in Matrix? :)

[EmeraldCastrol]

I really like how Rand tried to balefire Graendal out of existence without having to confront her face to face. Very clever, even if he didn't manage to get her. I'm looking forward to the Graendal confrontation in aMoL, but RJ has really set himself up now as it better top that one.

 

I agree that Rand needs to lose his power after TG. He'll probably burn himself out from the OP and turn to sheepherding again, with Min at his side. That's if he doesn't die. I don't like this ending because I don't like Min but I can't picture Avienda or Elayne doing it.

[A2597]

I actually see it more like Nickelodeons Avatar the last airbender series - Rand now has the memories of all the past Dragons, not just Lewis Therin. He kicked it in overdrive. He also knows what the true power is, and how to use it. Part of why he's not scared of 13 Aes Sedai...they couldn't even see what he was doing, would know he was sheilded...he could stop them all and they couldn't do anything about it.

[Tom Sawyer]

I actually see it more like Nickelodeons Avatar the last airbender series - Rand now has the memories of all the past Dragons, not just Lewis Therin. He kicked it in overdrive. He also knows what the true power is, and how to use it. Part of why he's not scared of 13 Aes Sedai...they couldn't even see what he was doing, would know he was sheilded...he could stop them all and they couldn't do anything about it.

 

This is what I thought at the end of TGS, but his comments in TOM about how he's essentially 400 years old and all that seem to indicate that he's just got Lews Therin's. The super-channelling at Maradon does seem to be far more than Lews Therin was capable of, given what we've seen from his POV and was just kind of out of nowhere. It doesn't seem very clear what's going on with him at this point.

[Brevsparv]

After saving Maradon, Rand said that he needed help to do what he did. I assumed he still had access to the Choedan Kal, despite its destruction. The power might have survived somehow, and maybe Rand could use it. Anyway, I think he used a sa'angreal.

 

Concerning the numbers of channelers in the world, I think 1-2% is an unnaturally high percentage. Perhaps 1/1000 is more likely. Perhaps, I don't know.

[Erunion]

If I remember what RJ said, it was 1-2% in the AOL (Remember, AOL channelers live for 6-7 generations, so they aren't removed from the population as fast and are likely to have more kids than the average person) and >1% in the current age.

[Raap]

It has been said by AS in the series that Taveren only lasts as long as needed. After winning the battle, Rand will probably only be Taveren for a short time there after. After that point he will just be another Powerful OP user. Well, an incredibly well trained OP user. But, with the advances they are making now, I expect many OP users close to rand's level of mastery by the time he dies.

I'd say Rand is on a completely different level from anyone else. Though his power might still be limited or at approximately the same level as before, I think he's simply gained an understanding and control which surpasses everyone else. It was not the power that impressed the Ashamans so much in aSoL as the number of weaves.

 

Also keep in mind Aviendha's vision about how her and Rand's children were far more adapt at wielding the OP than anyone else in that future time. To them, other users looked like amateurs who could only make clumsy and crude weaves and couldn't even hold the OP indefinitely as they could.

[SvetSedi]

I'd say Rand is on a completely different level from anyone else. Though his power might still be limited or at approximately the same level as before, I think he's simply gained an understanding and control which surpasses everyone else. It was not the power that impressed the Ashamans so much in aSoL as the number of weaves.

 

Also keep in mind Aviendha's vision about how her and Rand's children were far more adapt at wielding the OP than anyone else in that future time. To them, other users looked like amateurs who could only make clumsy and crude weaves and couldn't even hold the OP indefinitely as they could.

I think that this is pretty close. Way back we were told Rand and Aviendha's children (4) were going to be very "special". We have not been told the same for his and Elaine's. So it is obviously due to something that happened in between. There are several options but I think that most people will agree it must be VoG.

 

My interepetation would be that he and his genetic decendents (after VoG) have been changes significantly.

 

There was no mention in Aviendha's of future trip of anyone other than their first four children having "enhanced" abilities. Actually, we only see a significant change for only 1 generation. From what I remember, the "4" were unusually adept with the One Power. Skilled, and began channeling very early. I do not think that anything was mentioned about their Power levels. My best guess (it is a guess) was that the "4" are at the Normal Max. If they were higher, I think that it would have been mentioned.

 

The Ash'aman that observed Rand commented on the number of weaves and the amount of power. Unfortunately, he does not give an actual rating. We do not know how strong he is or what other powerfull channeler channeler he has observer at full bore. So although his view of the event was interesting and might mean something, as yet we have no guidence on how to apply it. Except as a general/additional confirmation that Rand is a Bad Ass.

 

Another factor it that we never actually got a Rand POV in ToM. Even the POVs we saw in TGS seemed to leave a few gaps. We know that he destroyed the Access Key and the KC. We know that he was changed by VoG but we do not exactly know how or how much.

 

Also, we have a number of references throughout the books that Lanfear was at the Female Max, LT, Isshy ++ were at the Male Max but what does that mean and is it true? Just because people in the AoL believe something, does not make it true. They thought stilling could not be heal, for example.

 

 

So, at a Storm og Light, Rand "may" have been using an "angeral" that we were not privleded enough to see him pich up, or his new sword could be one.

 

Or the VoG may have brought him up "a level or two" to the real max for a man.

 

Or he might be experiencing some kind of direct link to the Creator. (That would explainthe Light Aura around him)

 

Or it could be just that with his gaining all his past lives, especially LT + his own shill, that his skill in Channeling has uncreased to the poing that he can do much more with the power that he has. An Artist versus a house painter so to speak. I like this one except that his "4" children seem to get it as well. Strange that the next generations after the "4" did not get it. Or did we just not seeenough POVs until it became to deluted to the average or less {the non channeler}.

 

It sure would have been nice to have gotten just a litle more, but from Min's viewing, I think it is clear that this is the way RJ intended.

 

Thank you BS for doing such a great job! Can't wait!

 

I don't think that I answered any questions, but I hope I gave you all some things to think about. You guys sure make me think about every twist and more.

[CadeForeverfar]

I actually see him as less boring. I mean, the man REMEMBERS AoL...that's crazy cool! The whole emo-Rand started to get on my nerve there. I do agree with the timing, having him like this at the end is perfect. The man is truly the DRAGON now!

But he isn't just the Dragon - he's something else entirely. Remember when we could hear LTT's memories sifted out from Rand's? He was terrified of more than 4 or 5 Aes Sedai shielding him. New Rand doesn't care about a full circle of 13, and after A Storm of Light and his jaunt through the White Tower, I think it's safe to assume that he could break a shield of 13. His ability surpasses anything that LTT could have ever done.

 

This seems off, unless you consider the Dragon and the Dragon Reborn as two distinctly separate entities within a single turning of the Wheel. The original Dragon never heard voices from a past life, or integrated with a past life. Their functions are different (sealing the bore and giving rise to the taint vs. rebuilding the prison (or slaying the DO?) and cleansing the taint). Each is half a cycle, rather than a single cycle repeated. I'm not entirely sure if the amalgam of Rand and LTT justifies the drastic gain in power that we've seen, but you could argue that his little revelation did something that opened him to a ridiculous amount of raw power for the master (LTT) to weave.

 

But I'm rambling at this point - New Rand definitely kicks ass.

 

Sorry, I have to leave as soon as I've said this, so I don't have time to check if anyone else has said anything like it.

He is something else entirely. My theory is that the conflict escalates throughout the ages, until the last when EVERYTHING is destroyed, bringing about the new turning. Then again, I believe this is the be all and end all of the battle against Shai'tan. I think Rand's going to kill him.

[johthohar]

I actually see him as less boring. I mean, the man REMEMBERS AoL...that's crazy cool! The whole emo-Rand started to get on my nerve there. I do agree with the timing, having him like this at the end is perfect. The man is truly the DRAGON now!

But he isn't just the Dragon - he's something else entirely. Remember when we could hear LTT's memories sifted out from Rand's? He was terrified of more than 4 or 5 Aes Sedai shielding him. New Rand doesn't care about a full circle of 13, and after A Storm of Light and his jaunt through the White Tower, I think it's safe to assume that he could break a shield of 13. His ability surpasses anything that LTT could have ever done.

 

This seems off, unless you consider the Dragon and the Dragon Reborn as two distinctly separate entities within a single turning of the Wheel. The original Dragon never heard voices from a past life, or integrated with a past life. Their functions are different (sealing the bore and giving rise to the taint vs. rebuilding the prison (or slaying the DO?) and cleansing the taint). Each is half a cycle, rather than a single cycle repeated. I'm not entirely sure if the amalgam of Rand and LTT justifies the drastic gain in power that we've seen, but you could argue that his little revelation did something that opened him to a ridiculous amount of raw power for the master (LTT) to weave.

 

But I'm rambling at this point - New Rand definitely kicks ass.

 

What "original Dragon"? The Wheel is infinite. There is no "original" there is only "the Dragon". Rand and LTT are the same person. One soul, different bodies, different time periods and, as Rand pointed out to Min, different upbringings. Any differences in personality/ability/whateverelse are do to experiences. And we have no way of knowing what LTT was capable of other than the short looks we've had (tEotW prologue and Trolloc attack with deathgates, etc.). Even if Rand is now beyond what LTT could have ever accomplished it is likely due to his epiphany on Dragonmount. It wasn't just an integration of past lives with present. It was a realization of a fundamental truth.

 

I actually see him as less boring. I mean, the man REMEMBERS AoL...that's crazy cool! The whole emo-Rand started to get on my nerve there. I do agree with the timing, having him like this at the end is perfect. The man is truly the DRAGON now!

 

That is why it cannot last. Having him always be ZenRand and all powerful would become boring.

He is like an Olympic athlete that is peaking at just the right time.

It is impossible to maintain that level of performance over a long period.

 

He needs to die at the end of AMOL or somehow be drastically reduced in power if he lives.

Having an all powerful Dragon after the Last Battle would be lame.

 

Why does it matter. After the Last Battle the story is over. You won't have to worry about reading more boring stories about the conquests of the lame all powerful Dragon after the Dark One loses. Sanderson has too many other projects of his own to worry about writing prequels or outriggers. Whether or not Rand dies or is ruler supreme at the end of aMoL is insignificant in this context. I personally agree that he should, and most likely will, die. But for better reasons. For one... He is supposed to be a Jesus-like figure, right? Anybody remember what happened to that guy? I can't.... Also, winning without a major sacrifice would make it a cheap victory and I don't see WoT ending like that.

 

But he isn't just the Dragon - he's something else entirely. Remember when we could hear LTT's memories sifted out from Rand's? He was terrified of more than 4 or 5 Aes Sedai shielding him. New Rand doesn't care about a full circle of 13, and after A Storm of Light and his jaunt through the White Tower, I think it's safe to assume that he could break a shield of 13. His ability surpasses anything that LTT could have ever done.

 

Rand knew that he could use the TP to deal with an AS shield of the OP. He had the experience of doing it to Semi even when under the control of the male collar.

So with that experience, he can walk into the WT and allow them to shield him with no concern. He will have the element of surprise with the TP as his backup.

Until he does it once and they know that a 13 Aes Sedai shield is useless.

 

ZenRand also knows that the time for hiding is done. The meeting at the Last Battle is going to happen. The opportunity to kill Rand early is past.

Rand mentioned this during ToM. He knows that the pattern is already set that will get him there.

So knowing this, walking into the WT is no longer a threat. They were all powerless to stop Rand. They could barely move in his presense.

Anyone with bad intentions would likely be overcome with an anxiety attack and freeze.

 

I don't have the quote but I believe Robert Jordan has said that a shield blocks the True Power as well as the One Power. So... nice try.

 

I'm not entirely sure if the amalgam of Rand and LTT justifies the drastic gain in power that we've seen, but you could argue that his little revelation did something that opened him to a ridiculous amount of raw power for the master (LTT) to weave.

 

I think we are observing three things.

1) Rand peaking at just the right time before the Last Battle.

2) Rand gaining full access to LTT memories and experience with AOL knowledge, history and OP skill.

3) Rand's ta'veren ability is REALLY strong right now to make sure that nothing gets in the way of the key events that are destined. They are on a tight schedule and cannot tolerate any major delays.

 

1) Rand is not "peaking"... His integration of past life memories grants him the experience that it would have taken decades to gain otherwise.

 

2) The above makes your second point redundant.

 

3) Ta'veren is not an "ability". It is an atribute. It is never stronger or weaker than at any other point in time. The only difference in the effect it has is based on how much the pattern needs to be corrected. That is the purpose of ta'veren. To steer the pattern the way it was meant to be woven. Rand's attitude appears to have some effect on how his ta'varen nature acts but other than that, he has no control over it whatsoever. Not an ability.

[RedVanilla]

I'll tell you Rand's power level. It's over 9,000!!!

[Crossroad]

What I see is Rands power comes from his knowledge, I don't think it was ever and increase in power he's always had power just didn't know how to use it. I also believe his power is a pin prick compared to the DO. So he will need more than what hes got to defeat the DO or even re-imprison him.

 

Once again I believe his power comes from knowledge.

[dscott8]

Power, knowledge -- and skill. Break it down.

 

Raw power comes from the One Power and how much of it you can hold and channel. Rand's top of the list among humans. No issues there.

 

Knowledge of weaves is a tool kit. It determines which specific things you can do with the power. Rand, with Lews Therin's memories, has already called up weaves unseen since the Age of Legends. He's got the biggest tool kit in Lightville.

 

Skill is the final component. There are powerful Aes Sedai who were taught Healing in the Tower, but who still don't have much ability with it. You could give my brother Ron the best tool kit in the world, and he'd stab himself with a screwdriver. There are no doubt some folks whose arms are as strong as Peyton Manning's, and who know the rules of NFL football, but how many of them could actually thread a pass between two defenders while the pocket is collapsing around them? Rand has got the skills, the ability to use those weaves to effect.

 

I don't think Rand will defeat the Dark One with raw power. I think he's going to pull off some sneaky tricks with original weaves, playing the One Power like Joe Bonamassa on a Gibson Les Paul. The Dark One's last thoughts as his prison closes around him will be "What the HELL was that???"

[johthohar]

I'll tell you Rand's power level. It's over 9,000!!!

 

Are you referencing DBZ? Cause that would be amazing. And now I can't get Vageta's voice out of my head:

 

"What?! How is that possible!? He can't be more powerful than me!!! The Dark One promised me the most power!! I'll show him! FINAL.... FLASH!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

Power, knowledge -- and skill. Break it down.

 

Raw power comes from the One Power and how much of it you can hold and channel. Rand's top of the list among humans. No issues there.

 

Knowledge of weaves is a tool kit. It determines which specific things you can do with the power. Rand, with Lews Therin's memories, has already called up weaves unseen since the Age of Legends. He's got the biggest tool kit in Lightville.

 

Skill is the final component. There are powerful Aes Sedai who were taught Healing in the Tower, but who still don't have much ability with it. You could give my brother Ron the best tool kit in the world, and he'd stab himself with a screwdriver. There are no doubt some folks whose arms are as strong as Peyton Manning's, and who know the rules of NFL football, but how many of them could actually thread a pass between two defenders while the pocket is collapsing around them? Rand has got the skills, the ability to use those weaves to effect.

 

I don't think Rand will defeat the Dark One with raw power. I think he's going to pull off some sneaky tricks with original weaves, playing the One Power like Joe Bonamassa on a Gibson Les Paul. The Dark One's last thoughts as his prison closes around him will be "What the HELL was that???"

 

Damn you. I was trying to provoke some heated debate to occupy my time on a slow Saturday morning at work. Why did you have to say a bunch of stuff that I agree with?! Jerk. Also, I like the football analogy. Manning is my fantasy QB. He rocks.

[dscott8]

Damn you. I was trying to provoke some heated debate to occupy my time on a slow Saturday morning at work. Why did you have to say a bunch of stuff that I agree with?! Jerk. Also, I like the football analogy. Manning is my fantasy QB. He rocks.

 

Mother's milk in a cup! If I want abuse, I'll call my handyman-impaired brother. Oh, and that horseshoe imprint on the side of Manning's helmet? That's Bela's hoofprint.

[johthohar]

Damn you. I was trying to provoke some heated debate to occupy my time on a slow Saturday morning at work. Why did you have to say a bunch of stuff that I agree with?! Jerk. Also, I like the football analogy. Manning is my fantasy QB. He rocks.

 

Mother's milk in a cup! If I want abuse, I'll call my handyman-impaired brother. Oh, and that horseshoe imprint on the side of Manning's helmet? That's Bela's hoofprint.

 

I hope Bela dies. Then falls across your chest so you slowly suffocate as you lose muscle strength and your lunges collapse. Good day.

[Fable]

I think the difference is Rand is no longer Rand. he is not a person, per se. He is, to use Sandersons term a "force of nature." To that end what was "Rand" died on Dragonmount and the Prophet of the Light is what came down from the mountain. Essentially I don't think of Rand so much as Rand anymore. He's more of a construct of the wheel and to some degree he can just... will the pattern.

[johthohar]

I think the difference is Rand is no longer Rand. he is not a person, per se. He is, to use Sandersons term a "force of nature." To that end what was "Rand" died on Dragonmount and the Prophet of the Light is what came down from the mountain. Essentially I don't think of Rand so much as Rand anymore. He's more of a construct of the wheel and to some degree he can just... will the pattern.

 

Except that Rand directly said to Min that he was still the same (keyword in 3...2....) person. That's where this theory dies. Rand is still Rand. He said so himself. I doubt this "Prophet of the Light Construct" of yours would lie to his hooker.

[Darth Krewl]

Then again, I believe this is the be all and end all of the battle against Shai'tan. I think Rand's going to kill him.

 

Yup, that's exactly what Rand's been planning to do. Good to see I'm not the only one who has seen this coming.

[rand4747]

I think Rand has not become more powerfull, hes just got more skilled with his weaving, so he might be using them more efficiently, also more weaves at once can kill more, the fire doesn't have to be powerfull to kill the trollocs they cant channel to block it or anything, so just need it to be weak and spread it over a large area, like using alot of weaves at once instead of just a few at a time sort of thing.

[Kalm]

Kind of new here, posts wise, but be assured I have been lurking for quite some time and have read the series in depth as well. My take on it is this, Rand is not the most powerful based on how much of the power he can wield, but how he uses it and his attitude towards it.

 

Remember where we are. In this age, there's a bunch of stuff AOLers didn't know of/consider dangerous or primitive. The healing of severing. The Warder bond. The unraveling of a gateway thread by thread. Rand was brought up in this age. He views the Power fundamentally different to how Lews would have viewed it, despite Asmodean's teachings. No one from the AOL knew how to cleanse the taint it seems, yet Rand did it, and though he may have been aided by Lews' memories, it was still a completely foreign act that he may not have even considered.

 

Then we have the fact that Rand now remembers all of his life as Lews completely, with an intimate knowledge of the Power, its workings and past results he's had from using it in certain ways. Combine that with Rand's viewpoints and it should be clear that he should be stronger; but not through force. He's stronger in sheer efficiency and skill in how to use the Power as he wants. That's how I viewed the scene anyway.

 

Then there are other factors to take into account:-

 

We don't know exactly what Lews was capable of.

We don't know if Rand had any Angreal or Sa'angreal on him at the time (though I'm inclined to doubt this).

These Trollocs were pretty much charging into a grinder. There were no opposing channeler Rand had to deal with throughout his onslaught, so they had no protection whatsoever.

 

So it's not so much a matter of Rand being beyond what anyone else could be, he's already that. He's just smarter to boot.

 

With regards to the story now, I'd say he's alright. He's supposed to be powerful. It irked me slightly that Rand's own evaluations of Logain and other Asha'man pointed toward them being almost as strong as him. Now he's above and beyond them (as he should be, considering he's the Dragon reborn and what not), but in a believable and supportable manner (i.e without a jump in sheer power).

 

That's in addition to the fact that, at the LB he won't be fighting Trollocs. That's the armies' job. How many ants you can kill is not important if you leave the bear's cave behind you unchecked. Rand will be battling other channelers (despite his claims of not being pulled into fighting more minor battles, I still think he has a small role to play in some of these skirmishes. Maybe a quick swoop by while taking on Moridin and saving Narishma from something or other, only to have Narishma take what he saw and implement it again), possibly Moridin and/or Demandred (though I highly suspect that he will be taken out by a combined force), Shaidar Haran (someone has to take care of him, and his powers concerning channelers and how much we don't know is worrying. This may be the perfect point for Fain to step in though) and then he has to go down to the Pit to face Mr. Evil himself. And despite people thinking that the sealing has little to do with the power, I contend that the Bore was made with the power, sealing it should relate to it in some way, otherwise there's a giant disconnect in process here. The Bore was made by a team headed by the most powerful AOL female channeler, so it fits that Rand has to be especially powerful to seal it, considering that he'll probably be the only one doing the sealing despite his expected linkage with females in the use of Callandor.

 

Will he be too powerful after? Won't that make it sort of lame if he is? Well, I don't think so...He could fade into obscurity by leaving the Westlands entirely. He was on a boat in Min's visions, but that would be waaaaaay too LoTR-esque. Someone mentioned Avatar way up there, a good series. Aang was basically all powerful too, but that didn't make the ending any worse to me. It was satisfying. It's a matter of opinion. Besides that, Avi's visions show us that Rand may not even be around afterwards, and that the world has a ways to go till it's "done with battle". I, personally, would like Rand to be there if the Randland has to face the Seanchan, but that's just me.

[Brevsparv]

After saving Maradon, Rand said that he needed help to do what he did. I assumed he still had access to the Choedan Kal, despite its destruction. The power might have survived somehow, and maybe Rand could use it. Anyway, I think he used a sa'angreal.

 

 

We don't know if Rand had any Angreal or Sa'angreal on him at the time (though I'm inclined to doubt this).

These Trollocs were pretty much charging into a grinder. There were no opposing channeler Rand had to deal with throughout his onslaught, so they had no protection whatsoever.

 

Now you have made me doubt too. I checked the book, and found the passage I was refering too when I said that he needed help. From chapter 51, A Testing, in the conversation with the borderlanders, Rand said: "I stepped in to prevent Maradon from falling. It was near to it, Tenobia. The walls are shattered, your troops bloodied. With help, I was able to save it. Barely."

 

I think he might have got that help from an angreal or sa'angreal. I do not longer think he used the remnants or whatever it is from the Choedan Kal, because it is so powerful that he easily could have killed the trollocs much faster.

 

My doubt concerns the help. What if he meant Ituraldes defense of the city, and not his own actions in the storm of light?

[chinnma]

After saving Maradon, Rand said that he needed help to do what he did. I assumed he still had access to the Choedan Kal, despite its destruction. The power might have survived somehow, and maybe Rand could use it. Anyway, I think he used a sa'angreal.

 

 

We don't know if Rand had any Angreal or Sa'angreal on him at the time (though I'm inclined to doubt this).

These Trollocs were pretty much charging into a grinder. There were no opposing channeler Rand had to deal with throughout his onslaught, so they had no protection whatsoever.

 

Now you have made me doubt too. I checked the book, and found the passage I was refering too when I said that he needed help. From chapter 51, A Testing, in the conversation with the borderlanders, Rand said: "I stepped in to prevent Maradon from falling. It was near to it, Tenobia. The walls are shattered, your troops bloodied. With help, I was able to save it. Barely."

 

I think he might have got that help from an angreal or sa'angreal. I do not longer think he used the remnants or whatever it is from the Choedan Kal, because it is so powerful that he easily could have killed the trollocs much faster.

 

My doubt concerns the help. What if he meant Ituraldes defense of the city, and not his own actions in the storm of light?

 

The help he had was Ituralde, not an angreal or sa'angreal; if Rand hadn't put him there Marudon would have fallen a long time ago. Not saying he didnt have one (he freakin carries callendor srtapped to his back now) but this statement does not indicate that he had one.

[babuada]

3) Ta'veren is not an "ability". It is an atribute. It is never stronger or weaker than at any other point in time. The only difference in the effect it has is based on how much the pattern needs to be corrected. That is the purpose of ta'veren. To steer the pattern the way it was meant to be woven. Rand's attitude appears to have some effect on how his ta'varen nature acts but other than that, he has no control over it whatsoever. Not an ability.

I think whatever ability Rand used in WT meeting, he has full controll over it. He told Min that he did not give them any chance to do otherwise. It sounds too much like he is USING some power akin to Ta'veren. It could be Light power too (something different from Ta'veren) but I doubt. Look at his action. He was using Light. He stood at the center of Flame.

[RedVanilla]

Johthohar, I was totally making a DBZ refrence, I hear Vegeta in my head everytime anyone mentions power levels, and just couldn't help myself. I also knew I can't be the only nerd internet that would think that was funny.